"Budgeting" for Cadet Staff

Started by Adam B, August 24, 2019, 03:18:53 PM

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Adam B

Over the past years, as a Deputy Commander and now as the Squadron Commander, whenever a cadet commander wanted to switch up their staff, there was always a discussion about what roles were appropriate to fill given our unit's size and c/grade distribution.  They would always press for more staff, while I would counter with a challenge for them to define what the benefit of each role would be. After some discussion, we'd reach a compromise and then move forward with the assignments.
I think this is a very healthy process, and I believe it ensures that the c/commander has a defined purpose for each staff role. This is not entirely different than the "Real World." I can't hire or promote an employee without being able to justify the position as being necessary to the business.

I would like to make this process a little more tangible for the cadets, however, while also providing them more practice on managing staff in real life.

My thought is to introduce a budget of sorts, where each c/staff position "costs" a certain number of cadets. This would allow the cadet commander to evaluate their needs/wants, and weigh those against their current "budget" of cadets. If the c/commander wants to add new staff positions, they would have a clear path to do so: by recruiting additional cadets.

For example (not necessarily final numbers):
Flight sergeant costs 3 cadets 
Flight commander costs 5
First Sergeant costs 8
Deputy C/Commander costs 10
Etc, etc.

Using this, four flights of eight cadets would "cost" the same as three flights of 11 cadets, plus a first sergeant. Now which is a more effective use of you budget?

Obviously, at the end of the day, it's still up to Squadron Commander to provide the final approval, but I think this may be a good exercise in resource management, and offers the cadets some additional motivation to recruit more members.
Instead of "Well, the commander says we don't need that position," I want the cadets to say "Well, we can't afford that position now, but if we recruit another 6 cadets, we should be able to make that work!"


It's just an idea, and I'm looking for anyone's thoughts or input.
Adam

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Adam B on August 24, 2019, 03:18:53 PM
I would like to make this process a little more tangible for the cadets, however, while also providing them more practice on managing staff in real life.

My thought is to introduce a budget of sorts, where each c/staff position "costs" a certain number of cadets. This would allow the cadet commander to evaluate their needs/wants, and weigh those against their current "budget" of cadets. If the c/commander wants to add new staff positions, they would have a clear path to do so: by recruiting additional cadets.

Using this, four flights of eight cadets would "cost" the same as three flights of 11 cadets, plus a first sergeant. Now which is a more effective use of you budget?

I like the idea of teaching life lessons in leadership.

Unlike the business world the positions don't cost money. In your example deciding between 3 or 4 flights the "cost" does not include do you have cadets that should be working at that level of leadership? Do you have the 4th cadet officer (excluding CC and CD) to have 4 flight commanders? (I know we allow flight command at the higher end of the NCO grades) Do you have the cadets for the Flight Sergeant positions?

I think the priority needs to be establishing the cadet staff size to fit the resources and current needs of the cadets for their leadership development. Increasing the number of cadets would almost always increase the staff positions required.


TheSkyHornet

I think the lesson could/should be taken straight from the TLC guidance on how to structure a cadet staff:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2_733A8773174BE.pdf

The point of structuring a cadet organization is to maximize both the efficiency and effectiveness of the training program. Does the organizational structure make sense for the roster of cadets? Does it support the training and activity goals of the program?

You're far better off having your Cadet Commander outline the goals of the program and a strategy guidance for accomplishing those goals, then having he/she work with their First Sergeant to look at a structure that supports the strategic vision of the unit and the development of cadet officers and NCOs.

Don't make the mistake of taking their focus from running a cadet unit to pretend like there are impacts that don't actually exist (e.g., cost). If there's no actual association of cost, and no allocation of funds, it's going to be very tough to put into practice how the staff can be structured under a defined budget. It's a blessing that the staff structure doesn't actually cost anything monetarily. So the "budget" is really about goals, not finance. If you reverse that, you may end up short-changing cadets on duty assignments because you're looking at it from a cost perspective on not a participation and learning perspective.

If you want them to understand budgeting, maybe focus that intent in including the staff in activity cost analysis.

coudano

Quote from: Adam B on August 24, 2019, 03:18:53 PM
For example (not necessarily final numbers):
Flight sergeant costs 3 cadets 
Flight commander costs 5
First Sergeant costs 8
Deputy C/Commander costs 10
Etc, etc.

*IF* you went forward with this....

The thing that costs 3 cadets should be element leader.
Flight sergeant should cost a minimum of 2 elements.
First Sergeant should cost a minimum of 2 flight sergeants.

Flight commander is a phase 3 counterpart to a flight sergeant (phase 2) so it should have the same requirements for the 'flight level' i.e. a minimum of 2 elements.


If you want 2 flight sergeants/commanders then you need a minimum of 4 elements.
And so on.



"A" problem that this is going to create for you eventually, is especially if you recruit in cohorts, those cohorts will (probably) be about the same size...  So every time you get a new cohort, and the previous batch hits phase 2...  there will rarely be enough brand new cadets to justify flight leadership level positions for all your fresh new NCO's.   ...unless your attrition between C/AB and C/SSgt is like...  66% (!!!) . if that's going on you've got bigger problems than how many cadets a staff position costs (!)

There are ways to deal with this sort of "good problem" like rotation of cadets in and out of leadership positions.

Eclipse

Term limitations on all post should also be a factor.

Nothing breeds clarity like the calendar.

"That Others May Zoom"

Adam B

The idea here was to find a way where I could more clearly show what an appropriately sized staff is for a certain size of unit, with actual numbers.

Yes, I understand that there isn't any real cost associated with creating a staff position, but too often, the trend around here seems to be "more is better" when it comes to cadet staff. Yes, you COULD have 60%+ of a unit be "staff," but is that actually serving the cadets? Are their positions providing them with a means of exercising the lessons they're currently learning in their academics? That's partially the point of them serving, after all, and is key in executing our CP mission.
I fully understand the need to tailor a unit's structure to account for the grade distribution of your cadets as well as the overall size, I'm just trying to find a way of better demonstrating this with tangible numbers, while also showing a path for growth.

   
Adam

NIN

Quote from: Adam B on August 26, 2019, 05:07:32 PM
I fully understand the need to tailor a unit's structure to account for the grade distribution of your cadets as well as the overall size, I'm just trying to find a way of better demonstrating this with tangible numbers, while also showing a path for growth.

So what you're kind of thinking is a "TO&E" (Table of Organization & Equipment) which sort of delineates what a specific unit has for leadership slots, worker bee slots and gear to get the job done.  Obviously, thats not entirely helpful for CAP when you think about how variable things can be between units.  So sketch out something that works for your particular unit, today, with an eye toward expected growth and development.  There's nothing that says the organization you adopt today (and the ratios) has to be the same as when your unit is 3x the size and you have a half dozen cadet senior NCOs instead of 1. Adjust fire.

The point is: there's no solid, hard & fast rule here. What works for your unit would never work for mine, and vice-versa. 

A rough guideline is the size of your flights and your current leadership's span of control.  And then the idea that with multiple flights comes both the opportunity AND cost of additional cadetpower to run the unit. Maybe with a 2nd flight its time for an admin NCO or First Sergeant where before you didn't have one.

Example:
Squadron A has 50 cadets, 42 of whom are in-ranks cadets, 4 are the flight staff of their two flights, and 4 are the squadron staff.

Conversely, Squadron B, because "thats the way we've always done it," has just 24 cadets, 10 of whom are in-ranks cadets, 6 are flight staff ("because we've always had 3 flights.. even if we only have 4 cadets per flight!") and 8 are "running the show" as cadet commander, cadet deputy commander, cadet first sergeant, cadet admin NCO, cadet aerospace NCO, cadet recruiting NCO, cadet basic training NCO and the assistant to the admin NCO, C/A1C O'Reilly. Nevermind that the 8 are standing around in the staff room, unable to do anything, while the 10 in-ranks cadets are in the other room similarly unable to figure out what to do.

As I said, its more dependent on your unit, your leaders, your current situation, your expected situation, etc, rather than a mythical "formula" that might not be applicable across the board in all situations.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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Spam


Hi Adam.

The entire process under discussion is covered extensively in TLC (Training Leaders of Cadets), Section 2.2 Service Learning. The instructors plan leads TLC students through the correct process of adjusting cadet staff structure and sizing to the personnel constraints specific to the unit. If you haven't gone to TLC yet, I'd strongly recommend you do so before investing any time in reinventing the wheel, or coming up with a non standard process.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/cpo/tlc/tlc-basic

As far as the topic of budgeting (not just funding, but time, physical and personnel resources) I think you are touching on a really great potential growth area. Since these are KSA (knowledge, skills and abilities) most commonly associated with indirect leadership, and hence are Cadet Officer functional areas for instruction, I'd like to suggest that this would be a fantastic topic to develop further for cooperative projects/exercises for cadet officer venues such as: 

- Wing/Group Cadet Advisory Councils (CAC)
- Region Cadet Leadership Schools
- Encampment cadet staff involvement in planning

Respectfully Submitted (R/S)
Spam



coudano

Applying staff positions to cadet phase is also a consideration
Probably a more important one than how many underlings there are...

---

A cadet squadron has 50 cadets...  42 of which are brand new recruits from your open house / cohort.
4 of which are stagnant nco-syndrome holdovers from the previous administration
and 4 of which are either inactive, or a cadet officer who used to be here but is now gone to college...

Your 4 NCO's are eligible for element leaders and flight sergeants.
and if one of those 4 happens to be MSgt or better *could* be a 1st Sgt.
However it's questionable if you want these guys leading your new guys...
At least without some SERIOUS direct style mentoring

Nobody is a Flight Commander, Nobody is a Cadet Commander.


---

Another squadron, it only has 30 cadets...
But 2 of them are phase 4
2 of them are phase 3
8 are NCO's (2 of which are SNCO one of which is leaning on the Mitchell)
18 are phase 1...  half are in a cohort halfway to phase 2 and the other half just finished great start last week.

This (smaller) squadron could have

1 Cadet (squadron) Commander
1 Cadet Executive Officer
2 Flight Commanders
1 First Sergeant
3 Flight Sergeants
6 Element Leaders
And 16 "in flight" cadets

---

Still another squadron
Maybe it only has 15 cadets...

1 Phase 4 Cadet (squadron) commander
1 Phase 3 Flight Commadner
1 C/SMSgt First Sergeant
2 Phase 2 Flight Sergeants
4 Phase 2 / Senior Phase 1 Element Leaders
6 Phase 1 "in flight" cadets

This 15 cadet squadron can be 'healthy'
It can be MUCH healthier than the 50 cadet squadron above, that only has 4 dead-end "NCO"s in charge of a slew of new recruits.


Kayll'b

Quote from: Adam B on August 24, 2019, 03:18:53 PM
Over the past years, as a Deputy Commander and now as the Squadron Commander, whenever a cadet commander wanted to switch up their staff, there was always a discussion about what roles were appropriate to fill given our unit's size and c/grade distribution.  They would always press for more staff, while I would counter with a challenge for them to define what the benefit of each role would be. After some discussion, we'd reach a compromise and then move forward with the assignments.
I think this is a very healthy process, and I believe it ensures that the c/commander has a defined purpose for each staff role. This is not entirely different than the "Real World." I can't hire or promote an employee without being able to justify the position as being necessary to the business.

I would like to make this process a little more tangible for the cadets, however, while also providing them more practice on managing staff in real life.

My thought is to introduce a budget of sorts, where each c/staff position "costs" a certain number of cadets. This would allow the cadet commander to evaluate their needs/wants, and weigh those against their current "budget" of cadets. If the c/commander wants to add new staff positions, they would have a clear path to do so: by recruiting additional cadets.

For example (not necessarily final numbers):
Flight sergeant costs 3 cadets 
Flight commander costs 5
First Sergeant costs 8
Deputy C/Commander costs 10
Etc, etc.

Using this, four flights of eight cadets would "cost" the same as three flights of 11 cadets, plus a first sergeant. Now which is a more effective use of you budget?

Obviously, at the end of the day, it's still up to Squadron Commander to provide the final approval, but I think this may be a good exercise in resource management, and offers the cadets some additional motivation to recruit more members.
Instead of "Well, the commander says we don't need that position," I want the cadets to say "Well, we can't afford that position now, but if we recruit another 6 cadets, we should be able to make that work!"


It's just an idea, and I'm looking for anyone's thoughts or input.


Interesting idea worth looking into.

Something to think about.
C/Capt

Mitchell # 69847

Squadron Cadet Leadership officer

GCAC Recorder

Kayll'b

So if the goal of the C/CC is to get more staff positions and you tell him he has to recruit more cadets to get that position, but the reson he's doing it in the first place is to be able to help the cadets, wouldn't that then make it so you need another position?

I do see what you're saying, just playing devil's advocate.
C/Capt

Mitchell # 69847

Squadron Cadet Leadership officer

GCAC Recorder