Cadet NCO rank on both collars, when??

[capchiro]

I know that it has been mentioned before, but the recent NB passed the requirement for cadet NCO's to wear rank on both collars on the blue shirts.  Last night I had my DCC show up and tell me that he had received notice from Wing that this was now official and in place.  It is my understanding that until a change or change letter is posted to CAPM39-1, it isn't official and not mandatory.  Is that the consensus?  Also, any more clarification as to whether this will actually just be NCO's or all cadet enlisted ranks?  I try to convince my members that we do things the CAP way and follow published Reg's and then Wing just goes off and makes decisions on their own.  Please give me your input on this.  Thanks.

[Pylon]

You can't be dinged for not complying right away for several reasons. 

1) You're right in waiting for a formal "interim change letter" (NHQ's new lingo for what we know as "policy letters") or an updated CAPM 39-1.  Unofficial NB minutes, Knowledgebase answers, and emails from Wing Commanders - though certainly indicative of what's coming, aren't binding.

2) There's always a phase-in period.  Your cadets would still be right in wearing their CAP cutout on one side in blues, and chevrons on the other.  It takes everybody time to switch gears and comply with uniform changes, so I wouldn't worry about needed to comply by next week.

In addition, you can't take an NB approval at face value.  What I mean by that is, as a member "on the ground" so to speak, we don't know if that's a decision that still needs approval from the AF, or if it already has AF approval, etc.

Early-adoption on some things could be expensive if the NB reverses their decision quickly.  Look at van roof triangles.  If somebody went right out after that policy letter came out and got 'spensive professional roof markings for their van - they were probably pretty miffed when the March NB reversed the decision and canned the requirement. 

As for clarification on whether the NB meant only Cadet NCOs or all cadets from C/Amn to C/CMSgt, we'll have to wait and see.  My guess is they meant all cadets below the Mitchell.  Wouldn't make much sense to have C/Amn - C/SrA wear the one chevron and one cutout, but C/SSgt+ wear two chevrons.   


However, as the cadets in my squadron eventually promote, I'm trading in their CAP cutouts for chevrons.  It's a no-cost alternative to slowly replace everyone's cutouts by attrition, and only a few cadets at a time are affected.  The squadron keeps all the insignia on hand, so if something were to be reversed, we just hand back a couple cutouts.

[DNall]

My Sq hasn't switched yet, and we're kind of holding off till we build up some more stock cause I don't want some in the new system & some not. However, most cadets already have the two sets for use on BDUs. I'll make a decision here at some point about a date to have everyone switched by & try to do it in some logical order.

[brasda91]

I know that it has been mentioned before, but the recent NB passed the requirement for cadet NCO's to wear rank on both collars on the blue shirts.  Last night I had my DCC show up and tell me that he had received notice from Wing that this was now official and in place.  It is my understanding that until a change or change letter is posted to CAPM39-1, it isn't official and not mandatory.  Is that the consensus?  Also, any more clarification as to whether this will actually just be NCO's or all cadet enlisted ranks?  I try to convince my members that we do things the CAP way and follow published Reg's and then Wing just goes off and makes decisions on their own.  Please give me your input on this.  Thanks.

This is per the current 39-1:

Cadet NCOs and Airmen wear metal chevrons on collar. NOTE: Grade insignia was worn on the right collar only prior to 4 March 2005. Grade insignia is now required on both collars. Members have until 30 September 2005 to comply with this policy change.

[Psicorp]

I know that it has been mentioned before, but the recent NB passed the requirement for cadet NCO's to wear rank on both collars on the blue shirts.  Last night I had my DCC show up and tell me that he had received notice from Wing that this was now official and in place.  It is my understanding that until a change or change letter is posted to CAPM39-1, it isn't official and not mandatory.  Is that the consensus?  Also, any more clarification as to whether this will actually just be NCO's or all cadet enlisted ranks?  I try to convince my members that we do things the CAP way and follow published Reg's and then Wing just goes off and makes decisions on their own.  Please give me your input on this.  Thanks.

This is per the current 39-1:

Cadet NCOs and Airmen wear metal chevrons on collar. NOTE: Grade insignia was worn on the right collar only prior to 4 March 2005. Grade insignia is now required on both collars. Members have until 30 September 2005 to comply with this policy change.

Yes, sir.  That is for the BDUs; the wear of grade on both collars for blues never changed.  It has been and still is a CAP cutout on one side, grade on the other.  The recent NB decision just makes the blues match the BDUs.  The actual phase in date for that decision is the current question.

[Major Carrales]

OK...someone spell out the bottom line.

It was my understanding the on service dress that one wore the rank and the cut outs as had been the case in the past.

I'm only recently into working with cadets as their "main guy," thus I have not been focused on the placement of their devices.  Plus, CAPM 39-1 and the litany of other "policy letters" muddy the clarity that should exist.

   

[MIKE]

OK...someone spell out the bottom line.

It was my understanding the on service dress that one wore the rank and the cut outs as had been the case in the past.

1. Grade Insignia: Cadet officers wear regular size metal grade insignia on shoulder boards; cadet NCOs
and Airmen wear a metal chevron on right lapel.
2. CAP Lapel Insignia: Cadet officers and cadets with no grade wear lapel insignia on both lapels halfway
up the seam, resting on but not over it. Cadet NCOs and Airmen wear it on the left lapel only with the
bottom of the insignia parallel to the ground.

We will have to wait and see what the ICL says when it is published.

[brasda91]

I know that it has been mentioned before, but the recent NB passed the requirement for cadet NCO's to wear rank on both collars on the blue shirts.  Last night I had my DCC show up and tell me that he had received notice from Wing that this was now official and in place.  It is my understanding that until a change or change letter is posted to CAPM39-1, it isn't official and not mandatory.  Is that the consensus?  Also, any more clarification as to whether this will actually just be NCO's or all cadet enlisted ranks?  I try to convince my members that we do things the CAP way and follow published Reg's and then Wing just goes off and makes decisions on their own.  Please give me your input on this.  Thanks.

This is per the current 39-1:

Cadet NCOs and Airmen wear metal chevrons on collar. NOTE: Grade insignia was worn on the right collar only prior to 4 March 2005. Grade insignia is now required on both collars. Members have until 30 September 2005 to comply with this policy change.

Yes, sir.  That is for the BDUs; the wear of grade on both collars for blues never changed.  It has been and still is a CAP cutout on one side, grade on the other.  The recent NB decision just makes the blues match the BDUs.  The actual phase in date for that decision is the current question.

Yes, you are correct.  I guess I misread your original post.  I cannot find any policy letter changing the Blues to grade on both collars.  So it seems the CAP cutout is still the correct device for the left collar.

[Pylon]

Yes, you are correct.  I guess I misread your original post.  I cannot find any policy letter changing the Blues to grade on both collars.  So it seems the CAP cutout is still the correct device for the left collar.

The policy letter is not out yet.  The March 2007 National Boards voted and approved the change to chevrons on both collars for blues as well, but notice to the field has not yet followed.  In the interim, either way would be correct.