Cadets in college

Started by cadetesman, August 23, 2012, 03:57:05 AM

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AngelWings

Quote from: EMT-83 on August 25, 2012, 08:21:38 PM
The above post was written by a 15 year old, according to his profile. Someone with great ideas, but zero life experience.
A given. For me, it's all about soaking in as much as I can at an early age so I can disprove peoples assumptions through actions.

Equinox

#41
Get this . . .

I know a former active duty Army PFC that's currently a C/2nd Lt.

To make things even more wacky, he wears the blue field uniform.
Signature edited.  Violation of Membership Code of Conduct.

Rodriguez

Quote from: Equinox on August 25, 2012, 09:35:57 PM
Get this . . .

I know a former active duty Army PFC that's currently a C/2nd Lt.

To make things even more wacky, he wears the blue field uniform.

Surprisingly theres a lot of us active military simultaneous cadets in the woodwork at least in my wing.
-C/Capt. Rodriguez, Ranger Staff, 11B Infantryman 53rd Brigade Combat Team FLARNG

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Rodriguez on August 26, 2012, 02:43:28 AM
Quote from: Equinox on August 25, 2012, 09:35:57 PM
Get this . . .

I know a former active duty Army PFC that's currently a C/2nd Lt.

To make things even more wacky, he wears the blue field uniform.

Surprisingly theres a lot of us active military simultaneous cadets in the woodwork at least in my wing.

Then you are breaking regs...

PWK-GT

^^You mean, like CAPR39-2, Chapter 2-5  ??

CAPR 39-2 2 AUGUST 2012
2-5. Upon Joining the Armed Forces. Cadets who join any branch of the active duty Armed Forces (this does not include military service academies) will furnish NHQ/PMM written notification along with a CAPF 12 and FD Form 258 (see sample at attachment 5), at which time they will be automatically transferred to senior membership status. Additional membership dues are not required for the duration of the current membership year; they will be billed as senior member renewals. NOTE: Cadets who join the National Guard or Reserves are not required to become seniors upon attending "basic training." Regardless of the wording of the orders, "basic training" is not interpreted by CAP as "extended active duty." However, National Guard or Reserve members who enter "extended active duty" are not eligible to be cadets and must become senior members. Individuals who join the Armed Forces under the delayed enlistment program are not required to become senior members until such time as they actually report for duty.
"Is it Friday yet"


HGjunkie

That cites AD military, but reserve/guard components aren't bothered by that. Cadets can be concurrent Reserve/Guard military members and CAP cadets at once.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Rodriguez on August 26, 2012, 02:43:28 AM
Surprisingly theres a lot of us active military simultaneous cadets in the woodwork at least in my wing.

Quote from: HGjunkie on August 26, 2012, 03:05:20 PM
That cites AD military, but reserve/guard components aren't bothered by that. Cadets can be concurrent Reserve/Guard military members and CAP cadets at once.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Eclipse

Quote from: HGjunkie on August 26, 2012, 03:05:20 PM
That cites AD military, but reserve/guard components aren't bothered by that. Cadets can be concurrent Reserve/Guard military members and CAP cadets at once.

There are nuances to what is considered "active duty", and sometimes something we'd all consider AD, isn't, at least legally,
however once a cadets goes on active duty, regardless of the service they are in, including Guard and Reserve, they are no longer cadets.

Any commander ignoring the fact that a cadet has joined the military in some misguided idea that it's "OK" should be relieved.

In any case, odds are this is working itself out as we speak, as things like this mentioned publicly always do.

"That Others May Zoom"

Garibaldi

Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 03:59:43 PM

Any commander ignoring the fact that a cadet has joined the military in some misguided idea that it's "OK" should be relieved.


A little extreme, isn't it?
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Eclipse

Quote from: Garibaldi on August 26, 2012, 04:26:24 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 03:59:43 PM

Any commander ignoring the fact that a cadet has joined the military in some misguided idea that it's "OK" should be relieved.


A little extreme, isn't it?

No, not at all.  This is a basic, important regulation which potentially involves the safety of other cadets.  If a commander
cannot be bothered to be aware of, or enforce, the basic eligibility requirements for membership, he needs to go.

CAP has made their line on this fairly bright - to me, the delineation should be completion of basic training, but regardless,
anyone on what is considered "active duty", may not be a full adult, but certainly has moved on from what CAP considers a "cadet".

The situation should be handle no less seriously,  or less expediently, then any other situation which invalidates eligibility for cadet status.

There's also this little matter of "ethics" and the core values.

"That Others May Zoom"

Spaceman3750

Whether or not you should turn senior when you turn 18 depends entirely on what gives you satisfaction in this organization. As a cadet, you will have opportunities to attend some awesome NCSAs, participate in one of the best leadership training programs in the world, get hands-on leadership experience in a controlled setting where it's OK to fail as long as you learn from it (see how far that gets you in the work world), and build lifelong friendships with well-adjusted, goals-oriented peers.

Being a senior has less to do with DOING and more to do with MANAGING (ES and OPS excepted, somewhat). For example, today I get to run down an airplane for an orientation flight following some moves. I won't get to fly in the plane, or even see it, but I will beg pilots to fly for me because there's six cadets in central Illinois that need to get a taste of the miracle of flight. Let's say you help in the cadet program. You'll probably help mentor, and motivate, and coordinate, but you'll only be watching from a distance while your former peers command a flight, staff an encampment, or see the world on IACE. Don't get me wrong - I really love being a senior member. But, I'm also a big-picture guy. I don't need to be on the o-flight to get satisfaction from seeing smiles on the face of every cadet I helped put in the air that day. I get satisfaction from the fact that my squadron's cadet programs officers and aerospace education officers can do their jobs really, really well because I spin plates in the background so they can focus on these important mission areas. I also get to work with some amazing seniors, many of whom I call both role models and friends.

If you get your "self-actualization" (as Eclipse has put it before) from participating in a really cool program, stick with being a cadet. If you get your self-actualization from the success of others, then maybe it's the right jump to make. Remember, at the end of the day, it's important that you are getting the "feel good" you want out of the program, whichever side of the organization you're on. If you don't, you'll soon burn out and then you'll be lost to the organization - a waste that could have been avoided by making a different choice.

Also, to add a bit of context, I am a 21 year old senior that just transitioned out of the flight officer grades last week (hasn't even posted on eServices yet). So I have a little bit of insight into how you feel. If you do transition and become a flight officer, you are no longer a cadet. Don't act like a cadet and don't think like a cadet. You are a senior member. If you don't heed this warning, you will appear to be a cadet and will be dismissed by other seniors. If you work hard and act like an auxiliary officer, you will be accepted by any other member worth their salt.

68w20

Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 26, 2012, 04:26:24 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 03:59:43 PM

Any commander ignoring the fact that a cadet has joined the military in some misguided idea that it's "OK" should be relieved.


A little extreme, isn't it?

No, not at all.  This is a basic, important regulation which potentially involves the safety of other cadets.  If a commander
cannot be bothered to be aware of, or enforce, the basic eligibility requirements for membership, he needs to go.

Could you please explain how completion of BMT would affect a Cadet's safety?  I fail to see the connection.

Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 03:59:43 PMCAP has made their line on this fairly bright - to me, the delineation should be completion of basic training, but regardless,
anyone on what is considered "active duty", may not be a full adult, but certainly has moved on from what CAP considers a "cadet".

Except that, depending on the branch, completion of BMT/Tech School (in my branch referred to broadly as Initial Entry Training) does not constitute full active duty. 

Eclipse

^ For the same reason you do not mix "adults" and cadets in the same cadres.

Anyone who has completed basic training, or who is in the military on AD is no longer a cadet in the sense that CAP defines
it, they have moved on to a different level of life, experienced much more of the real world, and should not be considered a
a peer to a "normal" CAP cadet.

"That Others May Zoom"

Garibaldi

I dunno...in the short time I've been here, and this is only an observation, Eclipse seems to be of the school of thought that advocates killing mosquitoes with an ICBM. Nothing against the man, but I have to disagree with his views on some topics. In which case, I'll hold my tongue, and not reply to those topics. I don't have the energy to argue. :-X
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Eclipse

It's called "reading the regs", "following the regs", and "not avoiding uncomfortable conversations".

In this case, you'd be arguing with clear regs as to when a member becomes ineligible for cadet status.
A regulation which is many times misguidedly ignored.

"That Others May Zoom"

Extremepredjudice

I think removing a squadron commander because he didn't 2B or transfer a cadet to SM isn't fair. A reprimand is definitely fair, but not removal on his first offense.
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 26, 2012, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rodriguez on August 26, 2012, 02:43:28 AM
Surprisingly theres a lot of us active military simultaneous cadets in the woodwork at least in my wing.

Quote from: HGjunkie on August 26, 2012, 03:05:20 PM
That cites AD military, but reserve/guard components aren't bothered by that. Cadets can be concurrent Reserve/Guard military members and CAP cadets at once.

^ +1.

If you're Nat.Guard or Reserves, then you are fine. But those branches DO go on extended active duty, and you are either overstating your "active military" status or you should not be a cadet. Simple as that.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 26, 2012, 06:16:37 PM
I think removing a squadron commander because he didn't 2B or transfer a cadet to SM isn't fair. A reprimand is definitely fair, but not removal on his first offense.

It's a pretty big violation. In fact I'm pretty sure in cases like this, IF a cadet earns awards after the fact, NHQ is in their right to strip those away.

Extremepredjudice

Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 26, 2012, 06:18:38 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 26, 2012, 06:16:37 PM
I think removing a squadron commander because he didn't 2B or transfer a cadet to SM isn't fair. A reprimand is definitely fair, but not removal on his first offense.

It's a pretty big violation. In fact I'm pretty sure in cases like this, IF a cadet earns awards after the fact, NHQ is in their right to strip those away.
It is. No argument about that. I just don't think it is particularly fair to punish a squadron commander with removal.
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

68w20

Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 06:09:53 PM
It's called "reading the regs", "following the regs", and "not avoiding uncomfortable conversations".

In this case, you'd be arguing with clear regs as to when a member becomes ineligible for cadet status.
A regulation which is many times misguidedly ignored.

But the regs make it clear that Guardsmen/Reservists are exempt from the Active Duty rule.