Academic eligibility for the CP?

[LC]

Would it be allowed to have a squadron CDC or CC request to see a copy of the cadets most recent report card to "determine eligibility" to participate in CAP?

I have combed through 52-16 and can not find any supporting regulation for this, but the squadron is determined to go through with this idea. Is it not up to the parents of the child if they get to come and play or not?

[coudano]

I saw it when i was a cadet as well,

in my opinion, school documents (like report cards) are private information and CAP has no business 'forcing' its members to disclose them anyway.

[Eclipse]

35-3 says satisfactory academics are required, how else would you verify that?

[lordmonar]

I saw it when i was a cadet as well,

in my opinion, school documents (like report cards) are private information and CAP has no business 'forcing' its members to disclose them anyway.

3. Causes To Terminate Cadet Membership:
a. Automatic Loss of Membership:
(1) Reaching 21st birthday. National Headquarters will automatically transfer cadets to senior status when the cadets leach their 21st birthdays (unless membership expires during the same month).
(2) Marriage.
(3) Joining the active duty Armed Forces. The term "active duty Armed Forces" does not include members in the National Guard or Reserves who are not on extended active duty.
(4) Payment of any kind made by bad check to National Headquarters if such check is not redeemed within 60 days of proper notification.
(5) Failure to maintain a satisfactory academic school record.
(6) Loss of the status "admitted for permanent residence" by an alien member other than by acquiring
citizenship to the U.S.
(7) Failure to renew.
(8) Voluntary resignation.

Beat me to it....but CAP does have not only the right but the duty to insure that you are getting satisfactory grades.

[NCRblues]

Who determines "satisfactory"??

As a CAP member it is not my job to tell a cadet or parent that I think a "C" average student is not "satisfactory".

This is another overreaching and overbearing regulation by CAP that needs to be removed. Just like the "pregnancy" rule, CAP can not control the cadets (or SM's for that matter) outside CAP.

[Eclipse]

No, but they are bound to uphold the standard internally.

The KB suggests that this is not only grade based, but also attendance and other factors.  Members may do what they will, that doesn't mean CAP has to accept it.

[coudano]

you got any squadrons around making cadets bring in their report cards every semester?

how about every mid term?

why not make the cadets go around and get teacher reports every week...



where do you draw the lines?


(and by the way I have a cadet who is on suspension from CAP right now for grades; however the suspension was initiated by the cadet's parents)

[LC]

you got any squadrons around making cadets bring in their report cards every semester?

how about every mid term?

why not make the cadets go around and get teacher reports every week...



where do you draw the lines?

[lmgtfy]
(and by the way I have a cadet who is on suspension from CAP right now for grades; however the suspension was initiated by the cadet's parents)

[/lmgtfy]





And that is up to the parents, not your squadron commanders.

[Major Carrales]

This is an interesting topic.  The Cadets at my squadron, generally, attend the school district where I work.  Some do not attend my CAMPUS and others are in other school districts.   Since the Unit does meet at the school, there are issues in a a gray area here as to if it is kosher to look into their classes since, in REALITY we are not a true school function (like the school paper, student council, band or athletics).

This is one of the issues associated with meeting and working closely with School Districts.

Suppose a Principal or Teach is having issues with a cadet in class...and they approach me as the squadron commander about the student?  If the student is failing, in theory, they will not have time to participate actively in squadron activites and the like in lieu of work on some academic area.

It is somewhat unethical and even Illegal in many places for Teachers and Administators to discuss student issues as a matter of confidentiality.  Here, again, there is a gray area where people's teaching certificate would be on the line, maybe even their job.

CAP would have to really think about being able to fully enforce that rule.

Then there are the CORE VALUES... Intergrity, Excellence, Volunteer Service and Respect.  Hiding poor grades from the Squadron violates Intergrity and shows lack of respect for the commanders.  The failure violates the value of EXCELLENCE.

If another cadet, say one up for a rank or position in the unit (ambitious sort) shows up at the unit with a copy of some other cadet's report card demanding the cadet's suspension from CAP and cites this regulation.  That would be another integrity issues.  "Bumping off" other CAP members for your position is wrong as rain.

This LOOKS LIKE A JOB FOR...

PARENTING!!!

Maybe this needs to go into the Parent's realm.  They will legally and ethically have the data, maybe they can report the faux pas to the unit commander on their own child.  This may demonstrate an sort of integrity in that if there is poor academic prowess, it will be necessary to refrain from usual activities.  The incentive to do welll at all times reinforces INTEGRITY, and provides a corrective removal from CAP in the intrim.

[EMT-83]

I saw it when i was a cadet as well,

in my opinion, school documents (like report cards) are private information and CAP has no business 'forcing' its members to disclose them anyway.

No one is "forcing" the member to join or maintain their membership. Should you make that choice, you should expect to play by the rules.

[bflynn]

35-3 says satisfactory academics are required, how else would you verify that?

Ask the kid's parents?  Aren't they responsible for raising them and their education?

If you allow a squadron commander to make the call, then you have different standards applied depending on the standard of the current commander.  Kids don't change parents very often.

[Eclipse]

Cadets receive direct benefit from their academic performance in membership itself, and in many Units, Groups, Wings, even nationally
there are Cadet Honor Societies, Cadet of the Month (etc)., scholarships, even access to certain NCSAs (if i recall correctly), which factor in
a cadet's academic performance and standing.

We have to grant that professional educators may have a line to walk, just like medical professionals, etc., and the school programs will have this
information as a matter of course, but the bottom line is that this isn't' optional, nor is it an affront to privacy, it's simply part
of being a cadet, subjective to the commander asking the question.

We also have home-schooled cadets who may not have an objective way of proving performance, but they would still need to provide "something".

This is what the KB suggests, which is perfectly reasonable:

To verify school attendance and satisfactory progress, there is nothing wrong with asking the cadet for a transcript or letter from the school showing enrollment and satisfactory progress especially if there is some doubt or concern. For home schoolers the cadet could be asked for a letter from the parents certifying attendance and satisfactory progress. Likewise all cadets might be asked to periodically show report cards to monitor progress.

Maintaining a satisfactory academic school record is based on a number of factors such as grades, regular attendance, school suspensions or expulsions, and any number of other factors such as meeting the requirements of an individualized academic program (IAP). Because schools and school requirements and individual programs vary greatly, the regulations do not specify specific criteria such as a "C" average in order to maintain a satisfactory academic school record.

The unit commander and deputy commander for cadets should look at all factors and make the determination that a cadet is maintaining a satisfactory academic school record. Should the commander determine the cadet is not maintaining a satisfactory academic school record there are several options available such as counseling, withholding promotions, suspension, and even termination.

For example, the CAP Form 50 Cadet Progression Evaluation may be used as a counseling tool to address and correct inappropriate behavior or issues with maintaining a satisfactory academic school record.

[Spaceman3750]

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record.

This may be no different than an employer asking me for my college transcripts, but a school can't directly certify anything without parental consent.

EDIT: Fixed omission.

[coudano]

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record.

This may be no different than an employer asking for my college transcripts, but a school can't directly certify anything without parental consent.

If the employer asks your school for your transcripts, the school will tell them to take a hike
unless you have signed a document releasing the school, to release the transcripts.

[Spaceman3750]

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record.

This may be no different than an employer asking for my college transcripts, but a school can't directly certify anything without parental consent.

If the employer asks your school for your transcripts, the school will tell them to take a hike
unless you have signed a document releasing the school, to release the transcripts.

Of course. I forgot an important word in that sentence: "This may be no different than an employer asking me for my college transcripts."

Denying the release of directory information is particularly interesting... At my university, if you disallow the release of directory information and someone asks about you, their typical response is "Who?".

[Eclipse]

OK, but we're not talking about any sort of background requests - this isn't even a privacy issue.
Everything is voluntary, and reasonable people could come to a reasonable solution if for some
reason the report card can't / won't be shared. 

The school or parents could provide a generalized letter, as long as there's an understanding that
fraud would have consequences.

But in the same situation, if the unit CC includes GPA in Cadet of the Month, and you don't want to share, then you can't be considered.

This is another of the arguments which people can make a big deal about "academically" (see what I did there?), but pragmatically
generally only indicates the negative.  Few cadets or parents will be reluctant to share a report card with all "As" and no disciplinary
check marks, especially if they are involved in a program like CAP which objectively grades Timmy on a regular basis, already.

[bflynn]

So make another paperwork drill so that a cadet can participate?  I was making a joke earlier about you living for paperwork, was I not joking and didn't know it?

What would be accomplished by a letter that isn't being accomplished by having parents monitor it?

Is there actually a problem?

Note - lots of question marks in my post. 

[lordmonar]

Who determines "satisfactory"??

As a CAP member it is not my job to tell a cadet or parent that I think a "C" average student is not "satisfactory".

This is another overreaching and overbearing regulation by CAP that needs to be removed. Just like the "pregnancy" rule, CAP can not control the cadets (or SM's for that matter) outside CAP.

You are right we can't control them outside of CAP.....but we can say if you are not doing good in school you can't be in CAP.

As for who gets to determine satisfactory.......it is good that we don't define it too strong....it allows us to make the call based on the actual situation.  If it is too objective....then we MUST kick out people when they fall below the standard....but it being subjective it gives us a tool if and when it is needed.

[lordmonar]

you got any squadrons around making cadets bring in their report cards every semester?

how about every mid term?

why not make the cadets go around and get teacher reports every week...



where do you draw the lines?


(and by the way I have a cadet who is on suspension from CAP right now for grades; however the suspension was initiated by the cadet's parents)

My squadron makes our cadets bring in their report cards each quarter.  If we see any D's we start to engage the parents in the conversation about whether it is good for the cadet to remove CAP from the situation so they can focus on school.

Lukily we have not had any problems in this area for the last 3-4 years.

[lordmonar]

So make another paperwork drill so that a cadet can participate?  I was making a joke earlier about you living for paperwork, was I not joking and didn't know it?

What would be accomplished by a letter that isn't being accomplished by having parents monitor it?

Is there actually a problem?

Note - lots of question marks in my post.

Yes it is a paperwork drill.  Yes there is a benifit to both CAP and the Cadet.
If when you you see their grades you see something that concerns you.....it opens to the door for you to engage the parent to help fix the probelm.

The problem could be that the amount of time the cadet is spending on CAP is interfering with their school work.  Being in CAP should not impact your school work.  And we as CP leaders should be monitoring it.

And since the standard is subjective it gives us the flexibility to make call based on the individual cadet and his/her parents.

It also gives us another tool if it needed to remove a cadet who is disruptive to cadet program.