Cadets entering AF BMT

[SarDragon]

Same sort of deal as the "one SM one cadet is against regs" myth (Cross-thread bonus points!).

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. What are you referring to?

He is referring to another thread that discusses the misperception that a single senior member can not be alone with a cadet due to Cadet Protection Policy. He was able tie this thread in with that thread, which was actually quite well executed.

Ok, well, this one isn't a myth though.

Define "this one." Is it the one-on-one situation, or the Mitchell situation?

[FlyTiger77]

...There is no official agreement that allows a cadet with the Mitchell to enter the Army, Navy, or Marine Corps at advanced rank/rate...

If anyone can find a regulation to prove me wrong, I am open to learn.

You owe me a Soda Pop, "Sprite Zero", 1 ea:

AR 601-210 para 2-18a states "The following explains who may enlist and when and at what pay grade. An applicant who—
{snip}
(10) Has completed all phase II requirements of the Air Force Civil Air Patrol and has been awarded the Billy
Mitchell Award may enlist at any time at pay grade PV2."

You can find the regulation at http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r601_210.pdf and the pertinent passage is found on page 15 of the regulation (and page 27 of the .pdf file).

[DakRadz]

But that's an Army reg!

It isn't E-3, though. But I'll be sure to make good on that debt, Col

CAP doesn't advertise this at all, though... They should. That's more money for the one enlisting. But anyway.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No, that is only E2. The way a CAP cadet could (without being boy or girl scout or JROTC) join as an E3 is to also do the Prebasic Training Task List, or to recruit another person to the Army. I did all three, but still only got E3 as you can only combine two to get E3. You can't enlist as a E4 unless you go to college.

[FlyTiger77]

But that's an Army reg!

BLUF: You were wrong.

I will concede that an Army regulation does not constitute an "agreement" per se; however, I will submit that this is a distinction without a difference in that: a) it is in fact possible to enter the Army at an advanced rank/grade than someone not similarly situated and b) your argument seemed to be that only the USAF awarded advanced grade in recognition of the award of a Mitchell award.

The only possible source for the award of an advanced rank/grade for enlistment in the Army would by necessity have to be an Army regulation. Even if the genesis of the incentive were an MOU/MOA between the Army and its sometimes wayward offspring the Air Force, the guidance to the field would be codified in an Army document.

Also, your challenge lacked the specificity you imply now exists. Your statement was: "If anyone can find a regulation to prove me wrong, I am open to learn" which was not service-specific.

[DakRadz]

Also, your challenge lacked the specificity you imply now exists. Your statement was: "If anyone can find a regulation to prove me wrong, I am open to learn" which was not service-specific.

You're absolutely correct, sir. I meant to add a smiley or the like- the "But that's an Army reg" was more of a joke. I am open to learning
I accept the change. So, officially:
Mitchell-
USAF: E-3
USA: E-2
Any additions?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

USN and USMC, I don't have the regs, but I do have it from the recruiters that they do allow a promotion to E2 with the Mitchell Award.

[DakRadz]

USN and USMC, I don't have the regs, but I do have it from the recruiters that they do allow a promotion to E2 with the Mitchell Award.

The recruiters around you might do that, but... Do they all? That is the question.

I'll go research a bit on USN/USMC.

[SarDragon]

If the recruiters are doing it, then there's a reg somewhere allowing it. This also means that recruiters that aren't doing it are either likely lazy, or ill-informed, which is not a surprise.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

both are likely, Lazy is most often. My USAF recruiter was. That is why I went to the Army.

[DakRadz]

d. Civil Air Patrol. Applicants who provide documentation of having received the
Civil Air Patrol Billy Mitchell Award may be enlisted in paygrade E-2.

What a document. If you do not trust me and wish to read it, utilize search- 500+ pages. Page 4-13, or 355 on the PDF file.

Next up- USMC.

[Al Sayre]

Recruiters have some latitude as well.  When I was about to join the Navy, I told my recruiter the USAF was willing to give me E-3, he checked and did likewise - it was the end of the month and recruiting was slow...    Make sure you get it on your contract in writing.

[PHall]

Recruiters have some latitude as well.  When I was about to join the Navy, I told my recruiter the USAF was willing to give me E-3, he checked and did likewise - it was the end of the month and recruiting was slow...    Make sure you get it on your contract in writing.

Just another reason to go see the recruiter the last week of the month.
If they're hurtin' to make their quota you're much more valuable to them.
And like the man said, get it in writing on your enlistment contract.

[caphornbuckle]

Let's see here...where to start...

I was not implying that CAP prepares cadets for basic training to a point that it is the only thing CAP does.  Cadets wear the Air Force-Style uniform, learn the Air Force Grade Structure, and use the EXACT Air Force D&C manual.  So should it help cadets prepare for BMT?  Probably better than Joe Schmo off the street.  So does it help cadets now like it did for me then?

As for promotions, I don't know the regs. I got E-3 thanks to my Mitchell that's all I can tell ya!

Still no word on cadets doing Aircraft Identification in the new AE?

[ironputts]

Reseached enlistment ranks for CAP cadets entering military service in 2007 and still valid:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3576.msg69575#msg69575

No aircraft identification in our AE.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You are right hornbuckle, CAP does, in a roundabout manner help prepare cadets for BMT. I think it helps prepare cadets better for USAF more so than it does any other branch. Your right, everything we do is based of the USAF so far as D&C and rank structure and anything else from promotions to corrective actions. I think if done in a certain way the Cadet Program will help better prepare the cadet for service. To focus the training for the cadet to prepare for USAF or any other service, the CP needs to be oriented to that cadet in such a manner that everything in CP is taken care of and met but is also added to in order to prepare the cadet while knowing his intentions to enlist or become commissioned. CAP can do a lot  for a cadet who wishes to enlist. They won't have to be taught how to march, they won't have to be taught self disciplline, nor rank structure, PT has already been started, the cadet entering USAF training won't be a blank slate that has to be washed before it can be written on. The cadet will have a much easier time for the first one to two weeks of training. So far as aircraft recognition, I think CAP has gotten away from that. I don't see it in any of the manuals any more. That is too bad, those were some fun exercises.

[Patterson]

Coast Guard
COMDTINST M1100-2E
2.E.6.b Prior Education or training
4 U.S. Air Force Civil Air Patrol (CAP)
a. Applicants with two or more years of experience are eligible to enlist in pay grade E-2
b. Applicants with three years of experience or cadets who receive the General Billy Mitchell Award are eligible for to enlist in the pay grade pf E-3.

Had a Senior Member enlist about a year and a half ago in the Coast Guard Reserve.  She spent two years as a flight Officer, needed money to finish college, and now is on her way to becoming a Coast Guard Officer.   

[mmouw]

My wife was not a cadet, but joined as a senior member. She said that CAP helped with some things. There were two Honor Grads from her flight. She was one and the other female was also a senior member in CAP. Not sure if that is what helped, but it sure looked good when the only two CAPers there were the Honor Grads. 

[raivo]

Is there *any* sort of preparation for basic training that's helpful once you're there?

Doesn't matter how much you know about marching, uniforms, etc., if the TIs want to find something wrong, they will. As far as knowing how to march, well, bully for you - you're still getting chewed out until everyone in your flight does as well.

[BillB]

Go back to the history of the cadet program. It was originally designed to produce pilots and flight crews for the Army Air Corp. The training included aircraft recognition, morse code as well as D&C. When a cadet earned the red, white and blue training ribbons they were eligible for PFC on enlistment, and could wear the stripe during basic training. Look on eBay for the training manuals of the period, they are often listed including the Pre-Flight Training Manual. The entire concept of the cadet program was to prepare teenagers for military service. This training concept was in effect until 1964 when the current training program was established. (before many modifications) Encampments during and following World War II were mini BMT training. This concept carried up until the late 1970's when encampments were "softened" for the younger cadets entering CAP.