2010 Winter National Board

[JCJ]

One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.

Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive.  Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos?  I suspect they will...

That's a detail that remains to be worked, but the vision is "if one is going to be an active member, one must have an appropriate digital photograph uploaded into e-services & validated by a commander..."

[Eclipse]

One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.

Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive.  Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos?  I suspect they will...

Auto-000 or Patron members who don't have a photo uploaded by "X".  Inactive members have no need for a photo ID anyway.
Want to reactivate?  Upload a photo approved by the CC.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Had Color Guard Competition this weekend, just now trying to get caught up.

Thank you Maj. Caralles, and others, who gave tried to put out the information about the NB.

For those that did see it, was them thoughts and feelings of the membership discussed?  And what happened to the uniforms?  I saw just a couple of comments about them.  I would really like to know what CAP-USAF had to say about them having total control over all "military-style" uniforms.  And did I understand that the items regarding the restriction of NEC powers went to committee?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I really missed out at CGC and would like to get caught back up.

Thanks

[JC004]

The uniform board will have eight wing commanders on it (one from each region selected by the region commander) - there will also be some other members (I can't remember exactly who & I haven't unpacked yet to check my notes).  There is also a provision to ensure that there is at least one female member on the board to provide feedback on women's uniform issues.

They should put ME on it.  I will ruthlessly attack this uniform issue until we have something that is, well, uniform.  I once calculated how many CAP vans we could fill with senior members ALONE (since it was for a uniform class at SLS) wearing authorized uniform combinations, each in a different combination.  I don't remember the number, but it was disturbing. 

Did you ever look at a room full of members in various combinations and think how ridiculous it looks?

[RiverAux]

And what happened to the uniforms? 

All uniform stuff went to committee and there is a two-year moratorium on any MAJOR uniform changes as well. 

[JC004]

And what happened to the uniforms? 

All uniform stuff went to committee and there is a two-year moratorium on any MAJOR uniform changes as well.

I've been calling for this moratorium for years.  I'm glad they finally got the idea.  It's time to focus on more important things, stop senselessly costing the members money, and stop wasting our money buying back uniform items from Vanguard due to changes.

[Mustang]

The question was sent to a committee appointed by the National AE Advisor Co. Mike Murrell  (now the national senior advisor for operations).

Whoa...so Skiba's out?  When did that happen??

On the subject of award names and aerospace pioneers, my yardstick is simple: if your contributions to the field don't rate even a footnote in any of our AE texts, you're probably not an aviation pioneer.   

I agree that Holm was a poor choice for this award's namesake.  Jule Zumwalt's contributions to CAP's AE mission are legendary--that is, if you've been in CAP for more than a few years; which begs the question of just how long some of these wing commanders have been in CAP.   For precedent, one need look only to the Cadet Programs Officer of the Year award, now named for Jack Sorenson--a wholly appropriate namesake for that award, given his monumental contributions to the modern cadet program.

[FW]

^Col. Skiba had enough.  He decided to relax a bit and travel around the world with his wife and fly his new Aeronca Champ around Florida.  His Last day as Senior Advisor Ops is today.

[lordmonar]

One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.

Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive.  Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos?  I suspect they will...

Auto-000 or Patron members who don't have a photo uploaded by "X".  Inactive members have no need for a photo ID anyway.
Want to reactivate?  Upload a photo approved by the CC.

Of course we can always put in a time line.....New members has 60 days to upload a photo after their membership is accepted by national (assuming we don't require them to provide a passport type photo with their membership applications...which is not a bad idea).  For current members....we give them to say Jan 2011 to get their pictures into the system....anyone with out a current picture gets an automatic suspention.....not a patrol status...or a 000 transfer a suspention.

Then we drop them and flag their records.

As we have said if they are not active let's let the computers do the work for use and clean up our membership records.

[tdepp]

On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active.  Lots of organizations are that way.  20% of the members do 80% of the work.  Or they may only like to do something once in a while.  I think we need to allow for that.  If their dues aren't covering the costs to process their membership and provide them with the magazine, then the dues should be raised.  But if the dues are covering these costs, it's extra money for CAP and the local squadron if they have a membership fee.

Perhaps more importantly, WHY are these members not active?  Has anyone talked to them lately and tried to get them to a meeting?  Have they asked them if they are upset at CAP or if something has happened in their life where they can't participate any more?  Is your squadron, group, or wing having meaningful activities and are you giving members meaningful training and duties? 

Many CAP members are gung-ho and don't have to be asked.  Other people are more shy and need a little coaxing.

Don't go crazy before purging the membership roles.  And a practical political issue: If we did a purge and we went from ~58,000 members to ~34,000 members (just a WAG), what would Congress and the USAF think?  That we are no longer viable?  That we are losing members? 

I'm just sayin'.

[ZigZag911]

The uniform board will have eight wing commanders on it (one from each region selected by the region commander) - there will also be some other members (I can't remember exactly who & I haven't unpacked yet to check my notes).  There is also a provision to ensure that there is at least one female member on the board to provide feedback on women's uniform issues.

They should put ME on it.  I will ruthlessly attack this uniform issue until we have something that is, well, uniform.  I once calculated how many CAP vans we could fill with senior members ALONE (since it was for a uniform class at SLS) wearing authorized uniform combinations, each in a different combination.  I don't remember the number, but it was disturbing. 

Did you ever look at a room full of members in various combinations and think how ridiculous it looks?

You've got my vote!

[heliodoc]

Room full of members and how ridiculous it looks....

I would say that is a CAP NHQ problem for allowing it to get out of hand in the first place.

Place the blame SQUARELY on those who deserve it.......yep right there in Alabama...THAT is what is disturbing

The members wearing them...disturbing?  Rooms full of members in different combos...That is what their parent organization has told them to wear.  Maybe they ought to come in jeans wearing fezzes??

Doesn't seem to disturb me....

[Ned]

Place the blame SQUARELY on those who deserve it.......yep right there in Alabama...THAT is what is disturbing

Forgive the gentle reminder on CAP governance, but only one or perhaps two members of the nearly 70-member NB live in Alabama.

It simply isn't fair to place responsiblity for any uniform issues on the Alabama Wing Commander alone.

[heliodoc]

Sorry Ned

SQUARELY on the upper leadership of CAP ..... Never specified THE Wing CC alone

I should have been more specific on the numbers of 70

But again....these uni changes are all approved at the NHQ level last time I was in CAP   1974-1981 and again 2005 to present

During my "hiatus" abd upon my return..... CAP still seems to function in silliness  (read smurfsuit and yesthe CSU)

CAP needs one uniform and preferably for the dress unis...OUT of AF blues all together

These problems won't going away EVEN after a 2 yr moratorium.....  someone will still come up and waste valuable time about "What a CAP uniform" should look like

Being from the RM......IT IS time for CAP to adopt an entirely new uniform...even if the hard liners in CAP do not agree

IT is still a leadership problem...as I was always reminded about in the RM about uniform issues

CAP INCLUDED

[Ned]

^^ No worries.  It sounds like we agree that our volunteer leaders make uniform policy, not the hardworking professional Corporate Team.

CAP needs one uniform and preferably for the dress unis

Strange, not one of the RM services has only one uniform (plus a dress uniform).  In fact, I think they each have about as many uniform combinations as we do.  But I'll let you and others argue about that in the countless future "uniform threads."

[Spike]

I propose a "no uniform" month in CAP.  Every first week in March each year members must not wear anything to the meetings.  We will then take a poll on CAPTALK whether we should just stick with what we have now or forbid clothes to be worn to meetings.  Not wearing clothes eliminates this heated debate about Fat and Fuzzies versus slim and slick, and will finally put to bed the debate on who, when and where AF-Style or Corporate style must be worn.

So, here is to being totally weirded out at all of our meetings this week!  Can't wait for my 80 year old Lt Col member to walk through the door with nothing but a grin on his face   

[heliodoc]

^^^
Agreed  but they are the military that supply the proverbial military industrial complex...I lived that life like many on this forum again CAPers can drive off the bridge with the criticism of the RM....again I say to CAP......look at your own house before casting stones at the RM

WEEE  (CAP) on the other hand, ARE volunteers to the tune of 57-58 K

Think that small -o- number ought to have all these poor, lame decisions?

That is why I hear the jokes about CAP

[Eclipse]

On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active.  Lots of organizations are that way.

These are referred to as "patron members".  If you aren't active enough to be able to get in front of a digital camera in 60 days,
you aren't an asset to the corporation because you can't be bothered.

[Eclipse]

Strange, not one of the RM services has only one uniform (plus a dress uniform).  In fact, I think they each have about as many uniform combinations as we do.  But I'll let you and others argue about that in the countless future "uniform threads."

Correct - we've already show here that we are about equal to the USAF, and other services have more combos than we do - with that said, however, the combos generally serve a real purpose, and do not treat some members as "different" in terms of plumage.

[Spike]

On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active.  Lots of organizations are that way.

These are referred to as "patron members".  If you aren't active enough to be able to get in front of a digital camera in 60 days,
you aren't an asset to the corporation because you can't be bothered.

When NHQ issues a digital camera to each squadron then we can make it mandatory.  I have a difficult enough time trying to get all members to take ORM, I can't imagine if I asked them to take their won picture and upload it.  I would hate to have to waste an entire meeting night to taking and uploading pictures. 

However, if we phase in the "mandatory" picture as part of the initial application process, that is fine by me.