What is real purpose of CAP

[stratoflyer]

Just a question.
We have some cadets who came in liking the program but not really knowing what they want to do. How do you figure out what attracted your cadets?

Have cadets with more experience talk to these cadets about various CAP activities--national activities, encampments, earning a pilot's license through CAP. Show them some videos of national activities.

Most importantly, have them participate in as much as possible at the squadron, and motivate them through their promotions and give them things to do with increasing responsibility.

They must understand our fundamental missions and also our history and heritage.

[lordmonar]

Not only are they diminished, but more importantly units that specialize get into the sandbox mentality and you will ONLY see them or their members when it benefits them.

For instance, group is supporting a the VFW for a 4th of July event that requires large amounts of CAP folks but because there is no ES training involved you only get support from 2 out of your 5 units. 

Its a slippery slope to allow units to not participate in all of the aspects of our program

Just to play devil's advocate.....what mission was this support for the VFW fullfilling?

[lordmonar]

As for overhead....maintaining a program that keeps cadets engaged is a lot more man power intensive than a program aimed at senior members.  Likewise maintaining cadet records is much more manpower intensive.

There are many SQD's that run a very successful Cadet Program with one or two CAP Officers.  I have done it myself, upward of a year.  Honestly, I can whip through the paperwork very fast on the Cadet Side.  Even faster now, that promotions can be input on line. 

There is no overhead with the Cadet side.  Actually, I would say it is easier to run a Cadet Program than it is to run a Senior Program.  The Cadets can basically "run themselves" with proper guidance.   

And now you want those one or two officers to also do ES, and an exteranal AE program.

[LittleIronPilot]

Well I guess it is time for me to take my enthusiasm, drive, experience, and knowledge and leave CAP.

You see I WILL work with Cadets as needed to fulfill the mission. I am into ES, and to support that mission, I want as many ES qualified and trained individuals as I can get.

However I really have little desire to do much else with the Cadets. That is MY choice, period, end-of-story. I am not a parent, do not want to be, and have no desire to do much else with the Cadets.

According to some I am a terrible CAP'er and should turn in my card tomorrow. 

[NEBoom]

^Ah, but your willingness to work with Cadets in the "ES realm" is contributing an important part of their development.  The sense of service, and of mission that Cadets get from participation in ES is a big part of what they learn as Cadets.

If that's all you want to do with cadets, so be it!  It's an important thing you're doing, and somebody needs to lead the Cadets in ES work.  It's OK in my book for individuals to specialize in whatever area of CAP they wish (within limits of course, we do need people to take on the "unglamorous" jobs after all!).

[FW]

Well I guess it is time for me to take my enthusiasm, drive, experience, and knowledge and leave CAP.

You see I WILL work with Cadets as needed to fulfill the mission. I am into ES, and to support that mission, I want as many ES qualified and trained individuals as I can get.

However I really have little desire to do much else with the Cadets. That is MY choice, period, end-of-story. I am not a parent, do not want to be, and have no desire to do much else with the Cadets.

According to some I am a terrible CAP'er and should turn in my card tomorrow. 

So, L.I.P., you don't want to work with cadets.  Sounds like a good choice.  I rarely work with cadets.  An occasional O'flight or two every so often is all I can handle at this point.
However, how is not wanting to work with cadets  the reason for leaving CAP?
Just because there are other opinions out there doesn't make any of them right.  I don't remember anyone getting paid for their participation nor do we pay members for their input on CAPTALK (if I'm wrong, how do I get my check?  ).  

Take it for what it's worth; do what you want in CAP.  Don't let anyone tell you your participation is wrong and don't take any more "LIP" from those who tell you different

[Major Carrales]

Well I guess it is time for me to take my enthusiasm, drive, experience, and knowledge and leave CAP.

You see I WILL work with Cadets as needed to fulfill the mission. I am into ES, and to support that mission, I want as many ES qualified and trained individuals as I can get.

However I really have little desire to do much else with the Cadets. That is MY choice, period, end-of-story. I am not a parent, do not want to be, and have no desire to do much else with the Cadets.

According to some I am a terrible CAP'er and should turn in my card tomorrow. 

No, I think your seniments are spot on.   CAP Cadets are CAP members two, as a CAP Officer you need to present yourself as a role model.

Everyone makes CAP what they want it to be within the scope of the regulations and standard practice.  In South Texas, most CADETS are attracted to CAP for two main reasons...
1) They want to beling to something (the CP program leadership training, association with cadets from around the Wing, Group)

2) They want to belong to something meaningful (most Cadets that join want to do as much ES stuff as they can...it become an "extracurricular" activity that allow them to do more than drill in "squares and circles," but use that as a lesson to be part of a team)

One does not have to learn to drill, drill cadets or any of the other "program" stuff, but one does need to exist to them in two main areas...

1) Inspiration- Seeing a CAP officer partaking in ES in CAP (air and ground) greatly increases the chance that they will grow up to be persons who hold a value in "hardcore" commuity volunteer.  Plus, if the Cadet choose to do ES, having a menor who can really show them a thing or to of meaningful ES will create a better experience for both.

2) Education- Especially the aviator.  CAP aviators are a University's worth of Aerospace Education.  They don;t need to spend their time as the AE officer; however, they can mentor Cadets, give presentations and make themselves available to answer aviation questions.  Same for any other "skill" brought into CAP.  If a cadet like Law Enforcement, and there are CAP Officer who are part of that field, what crime is it to give that cadet a little foundation?

Many CAP Officer claim they they don't "have the time" to serve as mentors, however, I respectfully submit that it is not all that much a "drag" to "be there" for cadets.

Simply put, as CAP members (especially as adult ones) when one part of our mission fails we are all responsible.  If a unit divides into a CADET and SENIOR squadrons, and the Cadet squadron prmoptly fails...then it is everyone's responsibility to own up for that.

This schism has got ot end and everyone need to take some time and reflect on the overall MISSION of the CAP.  You should do the most where you can do it best, but you should also extend help, guidence and support to the rest of it.  That is the WHOLE CAP APPROACH.

[Major Carrales]

So, L.I.P., you don't want to work with cadets.  Sounds like a good choice.  I rarely work with cadets.  An occasional O'flight or two every so often is all I can handle at this point.

FW, sound like you think Cadets are a "burden."  I hope that is merely a misunderstanding on my end.

It seems to me that your contribution to O-flights manifests itself as your support of the Cadet Program. 

No one is say you, or anyone, needs to "babysit," cadets or participate in their CADET PROGRAM centered activities (like drill, competitions or the like). 

I will add that all in all CAP cadets make up the most well behaved of children.  You read so much about how "out of control" children are today, however, when Cadets do that sort of stuff in CAP they are gone.  I agree totally with that, we only need to service cadets that 1) want to be there, 2) can handle the activity and 3) are free from criminal tendencies. ( if anyone needs clarification on what that means please feel free to comment.  I am a reasonable person and I believe in what Students/Cadet/Young Adult can do; however there are limits to our abilities)

No one, and I mean I hope no one, espects  ALL CAP Offcers to run a cadet  program.  Many times, just being there for O-Flights, displaying a professional stance of solid airmanship and resisting the urge to act like those so many old curmudgeons is enough to insure that a CAP cadet remembers their CAP years, and those who were there for them, with a degree of pride.

Who knows, some more cadet in future years might...without your realization...list you among the most influential persons that help inspire them to a career or advanced education. 

[Smithsonia]

Historically we started as Pilots and Planes in search of... (not people or downed planes) but of a mission. CAP was civilians who couldn't get gas during WW2, were too old to go to war, but wanted to fly. They offered their services to the government as volunteers. We weren't Army Air Corps (AF) but we were Civil Defense. We didn't start out doing SAR as a core mission. Although we participated in SAR, we didn't get the assignment from the Army Air Corps until March 1943. We got the submarine duty the same way. We offered to help> Did a demonstration of our capability and moved the CAP from mission to mission. SO...

If my country needs me to look for illegal aliens, dope factories, white-lightening stills, lost hikers, teach kids and cadets AE, man an anti aircraft gun, secure the perimeter of an airport, man an all-night duty station at a military base, or be a gas-jockey for F18s... I'm there. BUT, it should be stated that as we've always been... "We are volunteer pilots and planes in search of a mission." Getting too wedded or rooted to any particular mission means we'll become stagnant and obsolete. The Civilian Defense Corps, Civilian Pilot Training Program, Civilian Coastal Watch Network, and Civilian Communication Groups were all formed the same time we were. All of them are now either gone or replaced. Only CAP remains intact due to its capacity to change more than anything else. So while we need to be mission capable, let's be very mission flexible too.

With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[RiverAux]

Although we participated in SAR, we didn't get the assignment from the Army Air Corps until March 1943.

I'd like to see a citation for that.  Flying Minute Men mentions one SAR search from winter 1942 and I know my own wing looked for a missing person in the spring of 1942. 

People who have been around, know that the "three mission" mindset is something I disagree with.  Why?  Because we actually have 6 missions according to federal law:

1.  Encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy.

2.  Encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.

3.  To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.

4.  To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.

5.  To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.

6.  To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its non-combat programs and missions.

We are finally starting to address #6 more fully with the VSAF program, but still are woefully inadequate in regards to #4. 

I did a thread a while back pointing out that despite the three mission mantra, the cadet program itself isn't technically one of our purposes.  It is just a subset of our aerospace education mission (#3).  If someone wants to dig that thread out, we can discuss this point there. 

[FW]

FW, sound like you think Cadets are a "burden."  I hope that is merely a misunderstanding on my end.

Sparky, it is a misunderstanding that I, a former cadet, who ended up a sq./cc of the same cadet squadron that produced 4 wing commanders and 2 NEC members, 2 of whom were "my cadets", think cadets are a burden.

I was just speaking to LIP and his perceptions of the current situation.  My current participation with cadets is limited now because of time constraints and because I don't get asked to do much with them anymore.  My current position in CAP is more of a behind the scenes tasking.  I make sure things can go smoothly and let others worry about doing it.  It's a way to recharge the batteries and be ready to go when I'm back in a more "active" role.

[Smithsonia]

Riverux;
Here's the official Air Force History from the AF website. SEE BELOW. 1st and 2nd Air Force had their own
SAR capability in the early War Years. BUT they flew big planes and couldn't work close to the ground particularly close to mountains. It wasn't until CAP handled the New Mexico B-24 crash in Dec '42 (See Neprud Book pg. 152) and another accident in Oregon/Calif., I think, that in March '43 we got the SAR Tasking Portfolio (Final order signed by FDR, Apr. 29 '43) when we became part of the Army Air Forces. At that time, CAP was already doing courier flights and had completely surveyed the mountains and shown they knew what they were doing. Read Chapters 7 and 10 of Flying Minute Men.
I didn't say we didn't participate in SAR before March '43. But we weren't given the primary tasking until March 1943.
With regards; ED OBRIEN

History
Civil Air Patrol was founded Dec. 1, 1941. During World War II, its principal purpose was to allow private pilots and aviation enthusiasts to use their light aircraft and flying skills in civil defense efforts. In 1943, the organization came under control and direction of the Army Air Forces. Civil Air Patrol became a permanent peacetime institution July 1, 1946, when President Harry S. Truman signed Public Law 476 establishing it as a federally chartered, benevolent, civilian corporation.

[Major Carrales]

Sparky, it is a misunderstanding that I, a former cadet, who ended up a sq./cc of the same cadet squadron that produced 4 wing commanders and 2 NEC members, 2 of whom were "my cadets", think cadets are a burden.

I was hoping that was the case.  Many times in this particular medium of discussion we, in this case I, place more (or less) meaning on things.  I'm try to develop a "mental module" that will mitigate that in my case.

My issue tends to be with those that treat cadets as some sort of pariahs or other annoyance.  It is to those that I remind that we are one organization with three missions.

[stratoflyer]

There was a reply above that said something rather interesting: our missions have been changing. I think I hit on that point but it clearly makes sense that as times change, so should what CAP does. The Air Force has changed dramatically over years (look at what's on the horizon with UAV's). Ultimately, our purpose is to perform tasks that assist the nation.

We actually have 6 missions according to federal law:

1.  Encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy.

2.  Encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.

3.  To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.

4.  To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.

5.  To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.

6.  To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its non-combat programs and missions.

If you read that, then it should be clear that the cadet program addresses several of those points simultaneously.

In response to those who don't want to work with cadets: that is fine. However, you are still obliged to meet the professional standards of CAP because even though you may not be interacting with cadets, you are definitely still visible. Many of these cadets are young and highly impressionable. I dislike it very much when I hear cadets complaining about senior members that wear their uniforms incorrectly, who swear, and who pretty much forget that they are in CAP.

So if you don't want to work with cadets, that is ok. In fact, that may make you the ES specialist we need since you can concentrate on that fully. And if you still teach an ES class to someone who in turn teaches it to cadets, you just made CAP that much better.

Folks, together we bring as individuals different things to this program. When we work together, which is another important part of being in CAP--teamwork--we collectively improve the program and carry out the objectives outlined by federal law and we have an immense impact on everyone else.

So how about instead of asking what should CAP be doing, why not ask how am I working to improve CAP? Ask yourselves, I am being the very best I can be? Does not matter what you do in CAP, just do it uncommonly well.

[Smithsonia]

Stratoflyer;
I agree. I don't think you, me, or anyone else can be an expert at everything, even in CAP. ES specialists, AE Specialists, Comm Specialists, Top-flight SAR Pilots, the Best Scanner/Observers, plane mechanic, logistics, staff, on and on... are needed to make CAP work. Each expert has "tribal knowledge" some things that only they or a few others know.

In my squadron we've got some really great people who do little else but their one specific job. In that job they all seem to be urgently driving toward mastery. Good for them and good for CAP. I think the questions: What jobs CAP has available? What experts CAP needs? What level of expertise is required... needs to be answered by NHQ and WING... then we in the squadrons (composite, Senior, cadet) pick what we do best.

I do history. I like it a lot. I've done it professionally for many years. I think I'm relatively good. I also like ES BUT we have many many experts way out of my league in that field. So in some matters I take the lead. In some matters I listen and occasionally I ask a dumb question. I like to learn so I'm not unhappy being a neophyte. I should be around long enough and get enough experience to get better. This is one of CAPs great strengths. Long lived members with much "tribal knowledge" who can get you up to speed 10 times faster than learning by trial and error. I admire those members, appreciate their time trying to get me going, and hope to be of service when they no longer can serve. That said...

CAP's mission is to survive. To survive we need to be necessary, relevant, and flexible. To be flexible we need expertise along a broad scope of endeavors. AND, we need to keep questioning ourselves... "What do we need to do to remain relevant?" What can we do for you? How can we better serve our community and our country? Answer that and you'll know what the real purpose of CAP is. Leverage the internal knowledge base within CAP and our future is bright if not completely clear.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[stratoflyer]

^ :clap:

Well said.

[Smithsonia]

Thank you; Good luck always!
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[flyerthom]

At a member-level all three may be optional, at a squadron level they should not be.

So, ummmm, uhhh....what is a SENIOR squadron supposed to do? Sure they will do O-rides and such, but they have NO CADETS and thus do not have a strong CP program.

My squadron is large, with about 50 seniors and 70 cadets. We do many things together, but we also do many, many things apart. Some want to work with the cadets, some want nothing to do with them.

That is the members choice, and fortunately we have the ability to accommodate them. If you were to ask me why *I* joined CAP, and wanted an honest answer, it is because of ES/SAR/CD. I am 39, I have no kids, am most likely not going to have kids, and generally have more fun around adults. Does this make me a bad person?

I'm 46 and right with you by choice. So no, those of us sans children are not bad people.

That being said I did a helicopter LZ course for a cadet squadron and one of our seniors is running the glider program. Like you said, there are spots for everyone. Pick from the bufeet and dig in!

[flyerthom]

^ It is wrong.  There are three missions in CAP.  Do all three! 

From my standpoint, those Seniors have a lot of nerve to say they want nothing to do with the Cadets.  If I were NHQ (or even the Wing) I would have consolidated those units years ago. 

I just don't see what overhead there is with a Composite SQD.  Thats why you have a DCC.  To RUN the Cadet program. 

Both the Cadets and Seniors are missing out on a great opportunity. 

What's not on the table here is - the Senior squadron is an older unit that was chartered as a senior unit. The cadet squadron is new and moved their meeting night to the same night as the senior unit into an empty room. The command structures are different, the agendas different, the established senior squadron would adjust poorly to a merger and the new independent cadet squadron is enjoying it's autonomy. The cadet squadron separated from a totally different squadron recently then moved the meeting night to the seniors' usual night. Forcing a merger would not benefit either group.

[proveritas]

In response to those who don't want to work with cadets: that is fine. However, you are still obliged to meet the professional standards of CAP because even though you may not be interacting with cadets, you are definitely still visible. Many of these cadets are young and highly impressionable. I dislike it very much when I hear cadets complaining about senior members that wear their uniforms incorrectly, who swear, and who pretty much forget that they are in CAP.

Agreed. How "fair" is it to expect them to act professionally if we aren't? Those 14-year-old kids have a surreal way of spotting goofs.


One of the things I love about CAP is the opportunities it offers for everyone to find their little "niche" and fill it. We aren't just an ES organization or a youth organization or a flying club. We get so much more in the mix. I like to write, take pictures, and tromp in the woods. I get to do all of that in CAP. However, if I get so focused on the way I want to do my little "job" or the way "we've" always done things, it's only going to hurt my unit in the long run.

Taking the best experience has to offer, but still being flexible enough to "adapt" can't be beat.