What is USCAP Culture?

[Major Carrales]

Some of this is from another thread, but the issue here is...

WHAT IS CAP Culture?

Fact is, even though there is a USAF auxiliary aspect, there is a growing movement (based on diffusing elements from all services and non-prior service CAP Officers, toward an evolving CAP culture.  CAP Distinctive uniforms, growing "traditional observances" at encampments and lots of local practices.

Simply put, unless the USAF takes over CAP and assigns an Officer or NCO to each unit to insure we are "developing USAF CULTURE" it will not happen.  I mean, even in our unit, the nearest USAF base is hours away and the dominant military culture is NAVY with lots of ARMY.  Now, how should an isolated unit that forms miles away learn this culture?  A book?  That is a dilemma.

[Eclipse]

Sorry, I don't believe its a dilemma or an issue.

It will always be its own beast, if only because of the volunteer/corporate/military hybrid its always been.

I also don't believe its a new or emerging issue.

[Becks]

Luckily we have multiple USAF enlisted and officers at our Sqd so we tend to stay pretty true to AF.

[Major Carrales]

Sorry, I don't believe its a dilemma or an issue.

It will always be its own beast, if only because of the volunteer/corporate/military hybrid its always been.

I also don't believe its a new or emerging issue.

You are correct, in comparison to the large picture, its a moot as a camel farting in the desert, but to some here its a major issue.

All in all, the nature of the organization does not support a unified "culture."  There is so "US CAP Academy" nor even an established corps of NCOs or even officers in the traditional since.  There is also no "unified" culture center center.  In the Armed Services, there is a unified culture based on common training hubs and units that have "legacy," meaning an unbroken chain of officers and NCOs that "keep the line."

Also, the influx of members with no real feel for the USAF or it traditions added to the fact that CAP has its origins as a hodge-podge of traditions stemming from sources as varied as the Office of Civilian Defense and the old school US Army Air Corps (the vestiges of which are only recently removed...i.e. Wing Patches)

Thus we are still left with the question (as moot as it may be) what is US CAP culture?

[Major Carrales]

Luckily we have multiple USAF enlisted and officers at our Sqd so we tend to stay pretty true to AF.

But that is not true for all.  I mean, what if a unit has no such compass?  Or, what if we have OLD SCHOOL USAF from the 1950s and 1960s that show up to meetings with military creases and obsolete items?  OR that call "service dress" class A?

But they are [darn] good pilots or GT guys that have more find ribbons and saves than the majority of US CAP Units.  Would you have a lowly CAP Captain...you know, like one who was in a USAF NCO last year and retired, dress them down because they wear their ribbons on short sleeve service dress or called it a "Class A uniform?"

As I said, unless the USAF were to plant modern USAF types in the UNITS for weekly guidance, anything goes!!!

[SARMedTech]

Sorry, I don't believe its a dilemma or an issue.

It will always be its own beast, if only because of the volunteer/corporate/military hybrid its always been.

I also don't believe its a new or emerging issue.

You are correct, in comparison to the large picture, its a moot as a camel farting in the desert, but to some here its a major issue.

All in all, the nature of the organization does not support a unified "culture."  There is so "US CAP Academy" nor even an established corps of NCOs or even officers in the traditional since.  There is also no "unified" culture center center.  In the Armed Services, there is a unified culture based on common training hubs and units that have "legacy," meaning an unbroken chain of officers and NCOs that "keep the line."

Also, the influx of members with no real feel for the USAF or it traditions added to the fact that CAP has its origins as a hodge-podge of traditions stemming from sources as varied as the Office of Civilian Defense and the old school US Army Air Corps (the vestiges of which are only recently removed...i.e. Wing Patches)

Thus we are still left with the question (as moot as it may be) what is US CAP culture?

If a camel farts in the desert, and no one is there to hear it, does it still make a sound...

It seems to me that CAP has developed its own culture, nomenclature, lingo, jargon and CERTAINLY way of dressing. Why fight it? Why not be proud of it? Who cares if Bravo Zulu is primarily a Sea Service expression. We use it, big deal. If anything, I would like to see what you mention, Major, which is a return to old school CAP/USAAC culture. Maybe someone should publish a book. We dont carry firearms, many of our members "forget" to salute superior CAP officers and our NC cant wear the AF uniforms because of weight standards. At least we can have some of our own culture. I really think it would give us an esprit d'corps to start encouraging such a thing. Bring back the wing patches and other CAP distinctive items. Lets not have CAP distinctive be a dirty word. I changed at work into my blue/whites the other night for a meeting and my employer said the uniform looked "squared away." And this is a retired marine. Also, its really a matter of effective communication as well. If I tell a cadet to remove his cover, does he know what I mean...probably...Speaking of which...is there anything we can do about Officers wearing their flight caps indoors...for the love of Pete...we have a few in my Sqdrn who will not take those things off to save their souls...its like they either forgot to do their comb-overs or they are afraid of hat head...i personally solved the hat head problem by shaving my head...not only does it look better when I take off my flight cap, the cadets definately approve...we have a female cadet who is thinking about shaving her head...the male cadets think she should...I think her parents would sue us... i think a few of our Officers would do themselves a favor by shaving their pates. But I hijack...i now return you to your regularly scheduled  program...except to ask, how many Officers out there cut their hair to have a more "military" appearance?

[Eclipse]

You are correct, in comparison to the large picture, its a moot as a camel farting in the desert, but to some here its a major issue.

There are some here who believe nametapes are a major issue.  The majority of members don't know or care about the kinds of things which become heated debates here and on CS.

Would you have a lowly CAP Captain...you know, like one who was in a USAF NCO last year and retired, dress them down because they wear their ribbons on short sleeve service dress or called it a "Class A uniform?"

Dress down, no.  Actively and constructively correct?  Absolutely.  That's my job.

[Eclipse]

..is there anything we can do about Officers wearing their flight caps indoors...for the love of Pete...we have a few in my Sqdrn who will not take those things off to save their souls...its like they either forgot to do their comb-overs or they are afraid of hat head...i personally solved the hat head problem by shaving my head...not only does it look better when I take off my flight cap, the cadets definately approve...we have a female cadet who is thinking about shaving her head...the male cadets think she should...I think her parents would sue us... i think a few of our Officers would do themselves a favor by shaving their pates. But I hijack...i now return you to your regularly scheduled  program...except to ask, how many Officers out there cut their hair to have a more "military" appearance?

Tell them to take the darn things off (just be nice about it).  Usually a quick gesture with your hand is enough of a reminder.

Female cadets cannot have shaved heads as it would be considered an "extreme" or "faddish" haircut, but certainly the parents can't expect to sue or blame CAP, unless you tell her to do it, and even then, good luck proving damages.

[Nick Critelli]

Excellent question.   Remember, mission defines culture. 

When you read the history of CAP you quickly come to the conclusion that CAP and AAF/USAF have a symbiotic relationship as evidenced by the number of different uniforms in our wardrobe. Look, for example at the relationship between USCG and USCG Aux. One uniform, one chain of command, one common mission.  Not the case with CAP. With the exception of that one small sliver of missions we do exclusively for the USAF (and I don't mean AFRCC assigned missions because we are not the exclusive vendor) we do not share  a common mission.

An organization's culture follows its mission. As our missions have changed to more and more Title 36 state and local support missions, we have rightfully begun to develop a mission based culture.

Look at what happened in my Wing. With the exception of the Air National Guard we have no USAF presence or base.  The only time we see active duty AF is when they come in for a SAV or CI.  Yet we see the National Guard on a daily basis. We meet with them,  train with them, go to their parties and they to ours and we share a common mission...they under Title 32, us under Title 36,  to support state and local communities. 

Enter USAF. Bombers, fighter jets, tankers, rockets. All very important facets of military life...but not much use in a SAR or DR mission. Can USAF speak our language, give us assistance in manning a mission base consistent with NIMS (heck they don't even believe it exists or if it does that it applies to them).

Mission drives culture and CAP is developing it's own whether we like it or not. 

[ZigZag911]

You know, the Real Military (TM) services have 'communities'....special ops in just about all of them, surface or aviation or submarine (to name a few in the Navy), fighters or bombers or PJOC to list a couple of USAF, and so forth.

To some degree this is also true in CAP....WIWAC 'communicators' very much formed a separate sub-culture, crossing ranks & even the great cadet/senior divide and uniting those who had some technical knowledge & ability (today the IT/MIS folks would probably fit in this category too).

I think we have numerous 'communities' within CAP: ES people (subdivided further often into air/ground/base), PD experts, PAO people, cadet program seniors, and so forth.

This is probably a sign of health in a large, diverse organization.

We do need to remember that we have shared beliefs (the Core Values), and common missions.....and a common 'parent', the USAF.

[lordmonar]

I have to agree with Zigzag.  There is NO unified USAF culture.

The officers come from three different commissioning systems each with their own way of doing things.

The enlisted all go through he same basic training....but it changes over the years (such as in my day we did not do PT as punishment...and now they do).  Even then your culture was more molded by the tech school environment and those were radically different depending on where and when you went to tech school.

Then finally there is the culture of your job.

Comm live in its own little world, as do the cops, flight line maintenance, CE, services and the MPF pukes.

Even with-in the same squadrons there are different cultures.....in Comm there is a big difference in the way Maintenance does things and the 3C0's do things.

So.....USCAP has a varied culture based on location, units and leadership.....sounds just like the USAF.

[jimmydeanno]

Honestly, I see more Army influence than I do AF influence in CAP in terms of culture.  Statistically speaking, you have a better chance of someone joining CAP that is prior Army than prior Air Force (the Army is just bigger). 

A lot if not most CAP encampments are held on Army bases because AF bases just don't have the facilities anymore.  A lot of CAP squadrons meet on an Army base of some sort.

The Army in a lot of cases is more willing to aide CAP than the AF in terms of instructors, military airlift/orientation flights, etc.

The result is that when a cadet or officer goes to encampment at the local Army base, gets taught by the Army instructor, we get HUA! instead of HOO-RAH! or Battle Buddy vs. Wingman.

[floridacyclist]

how many Officers out there cut their hair to have a more "military" appearance?

Hair?

[RiverAux]

What makes you think the USAF cares what sort of "culture" there is in CAP?  Is that something their CAPRAP officers or State Directors are focusing on?  Does the local AF unit (if there even is one) care what is going on in nearby CAP units? 

Yes, somebody in the upper limits of the AF cares enough about CAP and what we do to keep us within the AF community and to spend a tiny amount of money on us, but I certainly don't "feel the love" from the AF like I do from the CG for my CG Aux activities. 

Don't get me wrong, it would be great if the AF cared enough about CAP to really put some thought into how we can help them out, but I just don't see it happening under the current CAP-USAF relationship. 

[Nick Critelli]

We do need to remember that we have shared beliefs (the Core Values), and common missions.....and a common 'parent', the USAF.

I'm afraid I have to disagree...I'm beginning to wonder if we really do have USAF as a parent.  They are an overseer of our actions and a guardian of our funds but are  are they a parent?    If they were  the question posed by this thread would be irrelevant. 

I believe we are on the road to emancipation caused by a lack of a shared mission. To the USAF I would say: Wake up  you are about to lose a very valuable asset in the form of a link with the civilian world.

[Pumbaa]

I agree with the Col.. the hand writing is on the wall for the emancipation of CAP.  I see the USAF as being likened to a babysitter.  They keep an eye on things, but really would rather talk to their boyfriends on the phone... 

And yes, USAF needs to wake up.  Cause you can pay me now or you can pay me later.  When CAP reaches emancipation, it is goign to cost them a whole lot more.

[ZigZag911]

With the greatest respect for Col Critelli I must, in turn, disagree with him: for the foreseeable future, USAF is going to hang onto CAP tenaciously, for one simple reason: the Cadet Program.

USAF views the cadet program as an effective recruiting tool -- and they are almost certainly correct about this. I don't know if a study has ever been done, but I suspect it is at least as effective as AFJROTC in drawing young people to the Academy, ROTC/OTS programs, and to enlisted service.

I suspect to some degree they put up with the rest of us and the other programs....yes, SAR saves USAF some funds, although technically Inland SAR is a state responsibility rather than a federal one.

Another consideration, Nick, (and I say this as someone who admires what you have accomplished in your wing), we must keep in mind that not everyplace is Iowa! There are states where the cadet program is the greatest CAP asset because the authorities see it as a valuable tool in working with urban youth. There are states with geographic/topographic situations that demand the volunteer air & ground support in addressing SAR, natural disasters, lost person searches, and so forth....the place is so big, or parts are so isolated, or money is so tight, that the state simply does not have the paid resources to deal with the problems.

There are other states, relatively flush with cash, smaller, with less general aviation or recreational camping/hiking or whatever, where the needs simply don't arise.

Another consideration supporting USAF keeping us is the developing relationship between CAP/1st AF/Northcom.

People have been talking about 'when USAF unloads CAP' for at least 20 years now.

The difference in the two organizations' cultures is probably, in part, what prevents this from happening.: by the time USAF personnel achieve the leadership level that  they could effect the severance, one of two things happens -- military members retire, or government administrations change and the political leadership moves on.

We -- by which I mean people like me, with 35 plus years in CAP -- continue on, and preserve our institutional memory.

I really admire what Iowa Wing has accomplished....but, as some have pointed out,  any significant change in government there is liable to have an adverse effect on funding. In ten years, if the new relationship lasts that long (and I sincerely hope it does!), it might be sufficiently in grained to be 'established'....not quite untouchable, but still an expected element of the state's public services.

CAP national passed that point long ago....yeah, we suffer budget cuts like everyone else, but there is no serious talk about de-chartering....it would be like de-chartering the Red Cross or the Scouts!

Now I do understand what Nick has to say about our tenuous relationship with USAF....our common interests are few indeed, and we're sort of the poor relations who live on the wrong side of town that the elders don't talk about, and the youngsters don't even know about!

We may get reformed, changed, re-shaped.

We may even possibly get moved from our present 'parent' -- but if that happens, I think it will be very much a case of "Back to the Future"....the US Army remembers us....they also see us as a recruiting tool (and they need it more desperately than USAF)....and they feel we'd fit well with some of the state missions of the Army National Guard.

That could happen....might not be the worst thing, Army Aviation, though mostly rotary wing, operates fixed wing aircraft much more like ours.

In any event, I do not see us becoming 'orphans'....but we could well end up moving back in with our 'grandparents'!

[Pumbaa]

Funny you mention 'grandparents' ZigZag...

I was searching ebay and saw one of the older CAP uniforms that had Army Air Corp written all over it.  I was thinking.. that was a nice looking uniform, classic...

Not that I am saying we should go back to that uniform!!  That's another subject!!

Then again 

[ZigZag911]

Lt F & F, I totally agree! On several occasions I have extolled the virtues of the old USAF khaki 'suntan' uniform as something all of CAP could gradually move toward as a single uniform.

[Nick Critelli]

ZZ

Your arguments are cogent and rational and I certainly hope that they are true. There is no doubt that our cadet corps is the "jewel in the crown."  But does USAF really view it that way? 

Last year I met with the JROTC people to try to work a joint venture between that organization and CAP.   I was amazed at the amount of support and funding they receive from the services including the AF. The program is thriving.  Is ours? Is there redundancy between CAP cadet corp and AFJROTC?  Why would AF want two youth programs?

As to your other point, I whole heartedly agree that a return to the 1505 (but with modern fabric) would be a step in the right direction. 

NC

[RiverAux]

Is ours? Is there redundancy between CAP cadet corp and AFJROTC? 

The AF uses CAP as a way around limits on JROTC enrollment agreed to by the other services. 

The "AF loves us for our cadets" argument is losing ground every day as the AF downsizes.  They've got 100K in JROTC and 30K in CAP and are cutting their own staff all the time.  Recruiting needs are going down, so why keep sponsoring JROTC and CAP at cold war levels?

[Eagle400]

With the greatest respect for Col Critelli I must, in turn, disagree with him: for the foreseeable future, USAF is going to hang onto CAP tenaciously, for one simple reason: the Cadet Program.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!  The Cadet Program is the only reason why the Air Force hangs onto CAP tenaciously.  AFAM's are made possible by the Cadet Program.  Without CP, CAP would lose the AFAM's and any other support the Air Force has to give.

Providing stellar recruits to the Air Force is by and large CAP's greatest contribution to the Air Force, and the leaders of both organizations know it.  They also know that it is the cadets who set the standard of excellence in CAP and give it a good image.     

Lose the Cadet Program, and you lose all Air Force support.       

[RiverAux]

[The Cadet Program is the only reason why the Air Force hangs onto CAP tenaciously.  AFAM's are made possible by the Cadet Program.  Without CP, CAP would lose the AFAM's and any other support the Air Force has to give.

Hmm, they have a funny way of showing it --- compare the amount AF provides for ES training vs the amount the provide for cadet o-rides in your wing and tell me that the only reason we have planes is for cadets. 

Take a look at the national CAP budget:
ES: 20 million
AE: 1.8 million
Cadet & Sr Member activities: 2.9 million
DDR: .4 million

The AF certainly likes the cadet program, but they sure don't fund it as if it is their greatest priority. 

[ZigZag911]

Just because USAF likes cadet program does not translate, automatically, into them throwing piles of money at it.

As the Air Force continues to downsize (it amazes me that they & the Navy can do so in war time!) Nick & RiverAux may indeed be correct....when combined with CAP's shrinking numbers, it may come down to diminishing needs & returns.

I reiterate that the US Army may be waiting in the wings to welcome us back into the fold, sponsored & supported by some combination of JrROTC, Army Aviation and the National Guard Bureau.

In the short term, while the war is on, this may further curtail cadet membership....parents may not find it an attractive idea.

For our historical heritage (I guess it comes down to nostalgia & sentiment) I prefer to see us sponsored by USAF....I think.

Perhaps a change would be good for CAP; only time will tell.

My ultimate personal preference is that CAP be sponsored by/partnered with whatever institution or organization makes it most possible for us to serve the nation.

[SARMedTech]

What would be the result of a complete split between CAP and the USAF? Could we be entirely self-supporting? Would we be able to continue things like SAR and ES, since our SAR operations are currently tasked by the AF. It seems a little bit like we are getting pushed around because they control the cash, give us our missions etc. Could CAP be independant and still maintain SAR operations, etc? Would emancipation cause more troubles than it would solve? Could CAP establish a working relationship with the National Guard rather than the Air Force?

[RiverAux]

What would be the result of a complete split between CAP and the USAF? Could we be entirely self-supporting? Would we be able to continue things like SAR and ES, since our SAR operations are currently tasked by the AF. It seems a little bit like we are getting pushed around because they control the cash, give us our missions etc. Could CAP be independant and still maintain SAR operations, etc? Would emancipation cause more troubles than it would solve? Could CAP establish a working relationship with the National Guard rather than the Air Force?

No.

[ZigZag911]

Divorce -- emancipation -- complete split -- call it what you will is a bad idea.

We need the support of federal agencies, preferably in the military or HLS departments.

Putting us under another branch of military, closely affiliated with National Guard, might work.

Cutting us loose turns us into another version of the Red Cross -- without the immediate 'brand' recognition, but with the same need to conduct constant fund-raising to carry out any activities at all.

[sandman]

Well,
Here's a good article to read from the Joint Forces Quarterly (4th quarter 2006):

http://www.sgaus.org/VolMilOrgAssetByBankus.pdf

The magazine finds itself on many high ranking officers desks throughout the uniformed services (gleaned this off the State Guard Association's website).

Comments?
Will articles like this affect cultural "norms" of CAP?

[Tubacap]

I personally like the connotation that we should be doing more.  I also think that there is a push to use us more for HLS missions, and it is a matter of testing the waters to see how we'll do first, then give us more missions.  I'm not sure if the CD program started that way, but we sure do a lot of flying for it.

[SARMedTech]

What would be the result of a complete split between CAP and the USAF? Could we be entirely self-supporting? Would we be able to continue things like SAR and ES, since our SAR operations are currently tasked by the AF. It seems a little bit like we are getting pushed around because they control the cash, give us our missions etc. Could CAP be independant and still maintain SAR operations, etc? Would emancipation cause more troubles than it would solve? Could CAP establish a working relationship with the National Guard rather than the Air Force?

No.

Is that blanket no for all suggestions or do you have one in particular that you object to, and, if you do, why dont you offer some suggestions as alternatives?

[RiverAux]

No to all your questions.  CAP could not possibly exist as a national organization outside of the USAF, at least not while having a large fleet of corporate airplanes and vehicles.  The cadet program could probably muddle along without national support (the local units don't get any real national support anyway), but not the ES program as currently configured.

I don't see a need to provide alternatives as I see no need to move away from the AF and I am one of the ones that would advocate for closer relations than we have now. 

[SARMedTech]

Well,
Here's a good article to read from the Joint Forces Quarterly (4th quarter 2006):

http://www.sgaus.org/VolMilOrgAssetByBankus.pdf

The magazine finds itself on many high ranking officers desks throughout the uniformed services (gleaned this off the State Guard Association's website).

Comments?
Will articles like this affect cultural "norms" of CAP?

This article makes some really good points except it sort of lost me when it referred to the USCGAUX and CAP as "fledgling."

[SARMedTech]

No to all your questions.  CAP could not possibly exist as a national organization outside of the USAF, at least not while having a large fleet of corporate airplanes and vehicles.  The cadet program could probably muddle along without national support (the local units don't get any real national support anyway), but not the ES program as currently configured.

I don't see a need to provide alternatives as I see no need to move away from the AF and I am one of the ones that would advocate for closer relations than we have now. 

It seems to me that having a closer relationship with the USAF is an issue for them and not for CAP. Also, if we have a large fleet of corporate planes and vehicles, why would that make us less self-sufficient than more so? And I agree that the ES as currently configured couldnt exist outside the auspices of the AF, but that doesnt mean that it couldnt exist. Most non- CAP folks dont know we are "part" of the AF anyway

[DeputyDog]

What would be the result of a complete split between CAP and the USAF?

CAP not doing anything. We have already been partially split for the convenience of the Air Force. Since we are now only the Air Force Auxiliary when on AFAMs, what would we be doing if we were never the Air Force Auxiliary?

Cadet Programs? Maybe, but with alot less support. AE? I could see that. ES? Would disappear.

Could we be entirely self-supporting?

If we did enough bake sales and begging. But then, if we were completely divorced from the Air Force we wouldn't need the 550 (or so) airframes or all of the corporate vans, etc. We'd be self-supporting only if we drastically reduced our budget.

Would we be able to continue things like SAR and ES, since our SAR operations are currently tasked by the AF.

That would entirely depend on the wing's relationship with the state and local agencies. However, I would see us not doing ES functions at all.

It seems a little bit like we are getting pushed around because they control the cash, give us our missions etc.

I don't see it that way. I see it as more of the Air Force demanding accountability. Any government agency or entity demands that.

Could CAP be independant and still maintain SAR operations, etc?

Again, entirely up to the wing's relationship with the state and local governments and agencies. I would really doubt it, however.

Would emancipation cause more troubles than it would solve?

It would not solve any problems, real or perceived.

Could CAP establish a working relationship with the National Guard rather than the Air Force?

That has already been discussed on another thread. What would be the benefit to the National Guard Bureau?

[DeputyDog]

Also, if we have a large fleet of corporate planes and vehicles, why would that make us less self-sufficient than more so?

Can two million dollars cover the insurance, maintenance and purchase replacements for all of the airframes and corporate vehicles when they wear out? Don't forget our radios. It's a financial issue.

And I agree that the ES as currently configured couldnt exist outside the auspices of the AF, but that doesnt mean that it couldnt exist.

How? What would CAP be doing without the airframes, vehicles and radios?

Most non- CAP folks dont know we are "part" of the AF anyway

That doesn't matter or affect what we do. Most people don't realize that the United States Marine Corps is under the Department of the Navy either.

[RiverAux]

If we were not part of the AF, we would not be getting any funding for maintenance or purchasing of new aircraft.  We would not be getting funded for the vast majority of our missions.  We would not be getting new vehicle, radios, etc.  CAP could not maintain this infrastructure based solely on member dues and whatever measely corporate donations we get or even on the limited amount of state funding we get now, most of which would probably disappear without our AF relationship. 

But, CAP could continue on without the airplanes and vehicles doing nothing but the basic cadet program, just like the Boy Scouts and a host of other youth groups do.  We would not be able to continue doing ES.   

[SARMedTech]

  We would not be able to continue doing ES.   

Other, much smaller, non-profit organizations manage to provide ES quite effectively.

[RiverAux]

Not on a nation wide basis with 500+ airplanes and nearly 1000 vehicles.  Once our existing planes and vehicles wore out they would not be replaced and we would need to exist on the same level as most other local groups depending entirely on member-owned resources.

[DeputyDog]

Other, much smaller, non-profit organizations manage to provide ES quite effectively.

The key is much smaller. Do those same organizations do cadet programs as well as AE?

[SARMedTech]

Other, much smaller, non-profit organizations manage to provide ES quite effectively.

The key is much smaller. Do those same organizations do cadet programs as well as AE?

No they do not, and if you look at my post in response to RiverAux's last posting about being able to maintain ES, that is what we were discussing. An organization devoted to ES has no need for a cadet or AE program. One of the things I would do if I were suddenly made CAP NC is to focus the organization and to determine what we are really about. Some folks says its AE...to me, thats what museums, etc are for, though i do like rocketry, etc.  Cadet programs and the like can be filled by ROTC, etc. Simply because I am an ES geek, getting my MS degree in ES and disaster management, I would chose to focus CAP more on ES because that is my balliwick.  Others may wish to educate cadets or the public about aerospace topics...thats not my thing. What I think needs to happen is that each of the three programs needs to be more sharply focused. I know there is a need for a certain amount of integration, but sometimes it feels like we are trying to figure out how model rocketry fits into ES. I think the mission statements of each aspect of CAP could do with a good 21st century overhaul. As it stands, there are many who make those of us who have no use for AE or CP or ES for that matter feel as though we are somehow not doing our duty by the groups with whom we chose not to interact. My squadron has a fairly large cadet contingent. I like working with them, but I like working with them primarily in the field of ES. I like to go out and watch them fire rockets and hope to work with them at encampments as my quals allow, but other than that, I am most interested in getting them involved in ES since that is my field. I dont think there is anything wrong with color guard competitions and the like, they just dont light my fuse, as it were so I chose not to pay a whole lot of attention to them except I do like to see the cadets faces when they talk about an encampment experience, etc. I worked as an educator for many years before becoming involved in ES/EMS and quite frankly have had my fill of teaching unless it is in one of those fields. I dont think that makes me evil, it just says that I have a focus on one aspect of CAP, would like to see it improve and dont pay much attention to the other two. Thats all. I have to say that I truly believe that ES does and could to a much greater extent offer the greatest benefit to the general public, ie people not interested in being cadets to train to go into the military, etc. I do enjoy interacting with our cadets after they come back from HMRS, seeing what they have learned, explaining things that might have gotten by them, teaching them new little "medical tricks" like imaginative ways to use the CAT tourniquet. I just think ES provides the most bang for the buck and disagree that the AF only keeps us around for the cadet program when we perform between 85 and 95% of SAR missions tasked by them (number varies depending on source of statistic).

[flyerthom]

Some of this is from another thread, but the issue here is...

WHAT IS CAP Culture?

Something found in petri dish in the HSO's 'fridge?

[DeputyDog]

Paragraphs are your friends...use them.

No they do not, and if you look at my post in response to RiverAux's last posting about being able to maintain ES, that is what we were discussing.

No, what you were discussing was the implications arising from:

What would be the result of a complete split between CAP and the USAF?

...since CAP is more than ES, you have to look at what would happen from all three missions.

An organization devoted to ES has no need for a cadet or AE program.

However, thanks to our congressional charter, this organization cannot exist without AE and CP. So unless you wanted the organization known as the CAP to be dissolved, you would have to do all three missions as an organization.

One of the things I would do if I were suddenly made CAP NC is to focus the organization and to determine what we are really about.

Our charter has already done that for us. We are about CP, AE and ES. Organizationally, we must do all three. Individually, you can do just one or two.

Cadet programs and the like can be filled by ROTC, etc.

Uh, no. I was in both when I was a cadet, and the programs are nothing alike. Apples and oranges.

I just think ES provides the most bang for the buck and disagree that the AF only keeps us around for the cadet program when we perform between 85 and 95% of SAR missions tasked by them (number varies depending on source of statistic).

I agree with you that ES is the most bang for the buck....but is it the Air Force that decides our status?

[DeputyDog]

WHAT IS CAP Culture?

Fact is, even though there is a USAF auxiliary aspect, there is a growing movement (based on diffusing elements from all services and non-prior service CAP Officers, toward an evolving CAP culture.  CAP Distinctive uniforms, growing "traditional observances" at encampments and lots of local practices.

It is not really a dilemma, since there seems to be no real (meaning nothing really defined) opposition to the evolving "CAP Culture". However, organizational culture is something that is serious. As Lt Col Critelli put it, "Mission defines culture".

Is that correct for CAP? Does our mission define our culture? Kind of, or at least that may be the case in Iowa. That isn't a flame. The Iowa Wing has been able to develop a culture based off of the mission throughout the wing due to the increased wing-wide participation.

For the rest of the nation, I've found there is no one "CAP Culture". There seems to be a loose confederation of cultures throughout CAP. The interaction between members from across the nation is relatively minimal in the context of fostering organizational culture. For a few of the squadrons in my group, they have very distinct organizational cultures from eachother and they are only a two hour drive apart.

Within one squadron, I can see two very distinct cultures forming within the unit. So if there is a "CAP Culture", it would be based on volunteerism. How do we move that to foster one towards one of professionalism nationally?

[ZigZag911]

Within one squadron, I can see two very distinct cultures forming within the unit. So if there is a "CAP Culture", it would be based on volunteerism. How do we move that to foster one towards one of professionalism nationally?

Some suggestions that each of us can do immediately:

Step 1 --  treat one another with the same respect we desire

Step 2 --  recognize that there is more to CAP than our own field of interest or involvement

It's not much, but it's a beginning...

[SARMedTech]

Within one squadron, I can see two very distinct cultures forming within the unit. So if there is a "CAP Culture", it would be based on volunteerism. How do we move that to foster one towards one of professionalism nationally?

Some suggestions that each of us can do immediately:

Step 1 --  treat one another with the same respect we desire

Step 2 --  recognize that there is more to CAP than our own field of interest or involvement

It's not much, but it's a beginning...

Well said, indeed. I would only add that we need to have respect for each others ways of participating. If I chose ES, I may not give a rats hat about AE or CP, but I respect that others do. It gets tiring being a ground pounder and being insulted by pilots because I dont fly. We are all part of what makes this thing work...what we need is simple, common respect.