helicopter noise bill /Suffolk NY

[Flying Pig]

http://sagharborexpress.sagharborpublishing.com/shexpress/community/helicopter-noise-bill-would-set-1500-ft-limit/

I thought this was interesting.  Buy a house next to the airport, then complain about the noise.  I agree pilots should do what they can for noise abatement.  But some of these people want the world handed to them, forgetting they chose to move next to a heliport.  Briefly someone mentions the jobs that come in, mechanics, flight line people, pilots, fuel, tourists.  But its an interesting commentary on how the non-flying world may view us pilots.

Whats funny, or sad,  is at about minute 12 in the video, some politician is talking about the "completely unregulated helicopter industry."  and later on, the reporter is talking to the airport manager and makes a huge deal about the airport being "uncontrolled".  "How do you operate in an airport that is uncontrolled.  Its like the wild west of airports."  the reporter says.

I recall the movie "16 Right" that talks about how people dont understand airports.

[Pylon]

They ought to change the terminology from "Uncontrolled/Controlled" to something else just for the public perception value alone.  Some people... 

[IceNine]

Something like "No Lifeguard on duty"?

[JoeTomasone]

I used to live in Suffolk County and it is the hotbed of unneeded legislation.   They were, for example, the first County in the US to adopt a hands-free cellphone law - when NY has a motor vehicle law prohibiting driving while distracted (no matter the cause).   

They let the local electric company build a nuclear power plant only to object to its operation when they figured out that evacuating the place was impossible if the reactor ever had a major accident.   Amazing.

[DNall]

Something like "No Lifeguard on duty"?

I used to live in Suffolk County and it is the hotbed of unneeded legislation.   They were, for example, the first County in the US to adopt a hands-free cellphone law - when NY has a motor vehicle law prohibiting driving while distracted (no matter the cause).

Dang female joggers!!!

[SJFedor]

That's cute. They actually think that their municipality can enact laws over something that is federally controlled (airspace).

I'm glad that AOPA is getting involved in this one. They'll give the county legislators some education rather quickly.

The FAA does not regulate helicopters.

someone needs to buy this dude a clue.

And a FAR/AIM.

[Flying Pig]

From watching the video, I got the impression that from watching the town hall meeting (where there appeared to be about 15 people) that the city council was trying to portray that they had a lot more juice than they really do.  Who knows, maybe the village of Whatever can finally reign in this "completely unregulated helicopter industry."

On a lighter side.....there were some BAD #$% Helicopters coming in and out of that place!

[ricecakecm]

That's cute. They actually think that their municipality can enact laws over something that is federally controlled (airspace).

I'm glad that AOPA is getting involved in this one. They'll give the county legislators some education rather quickly.

The FAA does not regulate helicopters.

someone needs to buy this dude a clue.

And a FAR/AIM.

There are several airports where you can get a noise violation (and the fine that goes with it)...TEB, SMO, etc.

[♠SARKID♠]

I can't even bring myself to listen to that report for more than twenty seconds.  The idiots in the world...

You can hear an aircraft clear as day when its 3000 feet in the air.  How loud did you think it was going to be when you bought a house 200 feet under the flight path, moron?  Do some research on the area you're moving to, the airport was there long before you were.

Reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlIp2E68Jnw

[Eclipse]

That's cute. They actually think that their municipality can enact laws over something that is federally controlled (airspace).

The FAA may control the airspace, but they don't own the airport or the roads.

The town could vote it right out of existence.

See Meigs Field as an example.

[jimmydeanno]

See Meigs Field as an example.

IIRC, Meigs Field was a popular airport that the majority of Chicago residents wanted to see stay.  Mayor Daley even promised to keep the airport open in 2001.  Didn't the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois just finish some sort of deal that would ensure that it stayed open for another 25 years?

Then in some sort of backhanded sneaky, deceptive politically motivated motion - under the cover of darkness he ordered the destruction of the runway.

There was no advanced notice of the closure, the FAA wasn't notified that it was going to be or was closed until after the fact and it stranded 16 aircraft on the runway.  The FBO and control tower didn't even know that it was going to be closed.

Sounds to me like there was no vote involved there, just someone's personal agenda and power trip.

[ricecakecm]

See Meigs Field as an example.

IIRC, Meigs Field was a popular airport that the majority of Chicago residents wanted to see stay.  Mayor Daley even promised to keep the airport open in 2001.  Didn't the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois just finish some sort of deal that would ensure that it stayed open for another 25 years?

Then in some sort of backhanded sneaky, deceptive politically motivated motion - under the cover of darkness he ordered the destruction of the runway.

There was no advanced notice of the closure, the FAA wasn't notified that it was going to be or was closed until after the fact and it stranded 16 aircraft on the runway.  The FBO and control tower didn't even know that it was going to be closed.

Sounds to me like there was no vote involved there, just someone's personal agenda and power trip.

Gotta love the Chicago political machine......vote early, vote often.

[Eclipse]

See Meigs Field as an example.

IIRC, Meigs Field was a popular airport that the majority of Chicago residents wanted to see stay.  Mayor Daley even promised to keep the airport open in 2001.  Didn't the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois just finish some sort of deal that would ensure that it stayed open for another 25 years?

Then in some sort of backhanded sneaky, deceptive politically motivated motion - under the cover of darkness he ordered the destruction of the runway.

There was no advanced notice of the closure, the FAA wasn't notified that it was going to be or was closed until after the fact and it stranded 16 aircraft on the runway.  The FBO and control tower didn't even know that it was going to be closed.

Sounds to me like there was no vote involved there, just someone's personal agenda and power trip.

That's a fairly accurate characterization, though how many of Chicago's residents really "cared" is debatable.
Obviously it was Armageddon to local GA pilots, but as to its actual impact on local aviation, that's still being debated.
I'm about as active in CAP as you're gonna get in these parts and never had the opportunity to do anything but fly over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field#Closing_of_Meigs_Field


A number of state politicians pitched a fit because they used it to get into downtown from the capital, etc., but its not like you could easily put AF1 there.

Bottom line is that the city council (or whatever body is in power) has plenty of say over their airports, whether its limiting noise, closing it entirely, or something in between.

All the FAA can do is enforce rules about the operation within the parameters the city (or owner) has agreed to, and the
rules for an airport.

Chicago received a $33,000 fine for shutting down an IFR airport without the required 30-day notification, and had to repay $1M in FAA improvement funds, other than that its a nice park now.

[Flying Pig]

Could you imagine what could have happened if a pilot was headed in there on an IFR flight plan in IFR conditions....OUCH!

They talk about that field in "16 Right".  Great movie.

[Flying Pig]

I can't even bring myself to listen to that report for more than twenty seconds.  The idiots in the world...

You can hear an aircraft clear as day when its 3000 feet in the air.  How loud did you think it was going to be when you bought a house 200 feet under the flight path, moron?  Do some research on the area you're moving to, the airport was there long before you were.

Reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlIp2E68Jnw

OH CRP!  I just about blew my soda out my nose.  That was hilarious!  :clap:

[flyguy06]

They ought to change the terminology from "Uncontrolled/Controlled" to something else just for the public perception value alone.  Some people... 

Actually that term is misunderstood.The airport is not controlled/uncontrolled. The airspace around it is controled/uncontrolled. If the non flying public realized this their perception may be differant

[Pylon]

They ought to change the terminology from "Uncontrolled/Controlled" to something else just for the public perception value alone.  Some people... 

Actually that term is misunderstood.The airport is not controlled/uncontrolled. The airspace around it is controled/uncontrolled. If the non flying public realized this their perception may be differant

Actually, I think that gives the uninformed John Q. Public with a 10-second attention an even worse impression.  "Uncontrolled airspace!  OMG!  It's like the wild west!! No RULES!!!  It's out of CONTROL!  Anything could happen!!!!11one."

OH CRP!  I just about blew my soda out my nose.  That was hilarious!  :clap:

Haha!  Definitely; awesome clip selection Sarkid!  I actually laughed out loud at a YouTube video.   


Edited to add: Just watched that news clip.  Is that from a real news station?  The quality of the reporter's on-screen personal, the complete lack of editing, the absolute amateur photography and wicked outdated, cheesy graphics look like some home-grown reporter had this produced at home, by his 12-year-old nephew... on a Mac from 1997.  (The quality of the actual reporting is equally poor, but that's already been covered).

[♠SARKID♠]

OH CRP!  I just about blew my soda out my nose.  That was hilarious!  :clap:

Haha!  Definitely; awesome clip selection Sarkid!  I actually laughed out loud at a YouTube video.   

I aim to please!

They ought to change the terminology from "Uncontrolled/Controlled" to something else just for the public perception value alone.  Some people... 

Actually that term is misunderstood.The airport is not controlled/uncontrolled. The airspace around it is controled/uncontrolled. If the non flying public realized this their perception may be differant

More people need to have gotten into the young eagles program when they were kids.  i think that more minds would be open to GA if they had.

[Flying Pig]

....Or CAP!

But seriously. Do any of you live near this airport?  I mean I was really impressed by the birds they had coming in there.  That must be a high dollar area?  Some of those were $9-10 million + machines.  I saw a some Agustas, Sikorsky S-76's, an AS355......If those whiners want to sell, Ill move there!

[Bobble]

I don't live out at the airport, but I do live under the flight path.  Those rotary-wing aircraft are ferrying rich folk from their multi-million dollar NYC Upper East Side penthouses to their multi-million dollar Hampton McMansions.  Sure, you could move out there and live the life if'n you happen to be a movie star/rap star/entertainment industry mogul/Hedge Fund manager...  Not a lot out there in terms of jobs besides tourism and service (e.g., landscaping for the McMansions).

The noise doesn't bother me a bit.  Heck, I used to hot refuel Huey's and Loaches BITD.

[JayT]

I don't live out at the airport, but I do live under the flight path.  Those rotary-wing aircraft are ferrying rich folk from their multi-million dollar NYC Upper East Side penthouses to their multi-million dollar Hampton McMansions.  Sure, you could move out there and live the life if'n you happen to be a movie star/rap star/entertainment industry mogul/Hedge Fund manager...  Not a lot out there in terms of jobs besides tourism and service (e.g., landscaping for the McMansions).

The noise doesn't bother me a bit.  Heck, I used to hot refuel Huey's and Loaches BITD.

Yeah, what part of the Island do you live on?

[PHall]

So, is this bill going to be problem for the 102d Rescue Wing?  i.e. is there an exemption for the military, police, etc.?

[Flying Pig]

There is always an exemption for police anyway in the course of their duties.

[JayT]

So, is this bill going to be problem for the 102d Rescue Wing?  i.e. is there an exemption for the military, police, etc.?

Actually sir, it's the 102 Rescue Squadron, with is part of the 106th Rescue Wing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing

[PHall]

So, is this bill going to be problem for the 102d Rescue Wing?  i.e. is there an exemption for the military, police, etc.?

Actually sir, it's the 102 Rescue Squadron, with is part of the 106th Rescue Wing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing

Okay, is it going to be a problem for them or not?

If you don't know, then say so and we will all move on.

[JayT]

So, is this bill going to be problem for the 102d Rescue Wing?  i.e. is there an exemption for the military, police, etc.?

Actually sir, it's the 102 Rescue Squadron, with is part of the 106th Rescue Wing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing

Okay, is it going to be a problem for them or not?

If you don't know, then say so and we will all move on.

The 106th is fairly well supported by the community around them. I've asked around the county government and got shrugs as a response.

[NIN]

Couple weeks back we had a big "boogie" at the dropzone where I skydive. Brought in a CASA 212 Aviocar in addition to the Twin Otter we normally have from Thursday to Sunday.

Sunday afternoon, I'm out by the beer line on the radio with our students when this older gentleman asks me if I'm "in charge." 

"No, sir, I'm not, but is there something I can help you with?"

"Well, you can start by telling me why that plane's been flying at tree top level twelve hours a day for the last three days.."

"Well, sir-"

"I mean, I live over there and they're flying that plane right at the tops of the trees and I'm sure that's gotta be illegal. I don't mind the planes other times, but why do you have to do it for 12 hours a day right now?"

"Sir, as you can see we have an event going on with skydivers from all over the Northeast.."

"Yeah, yeah, but why do they have to take off and fly that way?"

"Well, sir, I'm sure I can't answer that.. I'm sure the pilots are flying in a way that's consistent with the safe operation of the aircraft, but they're doing what they need to do.  That's a 36 place plane, but we have to  fly it light due to the runway length, and they have plenty of run out room off the end of runway 6 with those fields there."

"Yeah, but they're right at the tops of the trees!  I mean, the prevailing winds are going the other direction, why can't they take off going that way?"

(By now, I know that I'm dealing with a guy who is going to be pretty irrational..)

"Well, sir, I think you'd probably want to talk to Fran, the lady who runs the DZ, and she can answer those kinds of questions.."

"Oh, I don't want to talk to her. I'm fed up with this plane flying so low. That's gotta be illegal, I'm gonna call the FAA.."

"Sir, Fran and the pilots would be better able to address your concerns with the aircraft.."

"But the winds are coming out of the opposite direction, why isn't he taking off that way?"

(finally, I'm fed up with this guy)

"Sir, if you haven't noticed, there is a huge hill at that end of the runway.  If the plane took off in that direction with a full load of jumpers, I think you'd probably see plane parts and bodies strewn across a half mile of neighborhood over there. But you should really address this with Fran.."

"Oh, I'm not gonna talk to her, I'm just gonna call the FAA and get this place shut down.."

"Sir, let me get this straight. You came out here and asked me if I was in charge, which I am not.  I pointed you to the persons who can address your concerns, and you said you don't want to talk to them. Clearly, you're not hear to get any kind of resolution to your problem, but rather to vent at the one guy here who is probably in the least position to do anything about it.   So basically, all you want to do is hear yourself talk, right?"

"I'm gonna call the FAA.. they can't fly that low, its gotta be illegal!!"

"Sorry to burst your bubble, sir, but FAR 91.119 says that they can fly at whatever altitude they need to fly at during take off and landing.  And we have a noise abatement plan which I'm reasonably certain they're following.   So you can call the FAA, but I doubt it will do much good. Maybe you should have thought a little harder before you bought a house this close to an operating drop zone?"

He stomped off.

[SJFedor]

NIN, I hate to say this, but....


you totally pwnd that guy.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

[♠SARKID♠]

NIN, you are my hero.