2017 Conference Registration

Started by MSG Mac, April 21, 2017, 06:16:28 AM

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Ned

Quote from: Alaric on April 28, 2017, 11:12:11 PM
Ned, you keep putting words in my mouth.  I have no problem with the conferences or people attending them as long as they are paying their own way.  Our leadership does not, we the members pay for them.  That was the thrust of my original post and no matter how you try to twist it, is still the thrust of my argument.
So, you realize that there would still be a command council meeting even if the national conference was  cancelled, right?  Because they meet in person twice a year.  (And having the meeting in conjunction with the national conference actually saves money.)

So again, your beef has nothing to do with the actual conference.  You and others are just expressing the non-mainstream view that volunteer leaders should have to pay out of their own pockets for mandatory meetings required to carry out their duties.

Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion.  Perhaps you could point to one or more other major corporations, including charitable corporations like ours, that makes their leadership pony up the money to attend mandatory national meetings.  I can save you a little trouble on the Google search.  It's not the Red Cross, Scouting, or any major church.  All of which apparently fund necessary travel for their leadership.  Including the volunteer leadership.

While we are waiting for your response, please address the effect on volunteer availability, diversity aspects, and morale of our senior leaders when forced to pay a few extra thousand dollars a year to "volunteer."

As part of our recent governance reorganization, I've spent a lot of hours looking at how other major charitable organizations organize and treat their volunteer leadership.  I've worked closely with our consultants, a lot of corporate lawyers working in the non-profit arena, and multiple academics who specialize in non-profit governance.  And while there are a lot of interesting approaches, I didn't see a single successful national organization that does what you suggest.

I look forward to your response.

Ned Lee

Alaric

#81
Quote from: Ned on April 29, 2017, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: Alaric on April 28, 2017, 11:12:11 PM
Ned, you keep putting words in my mouth.  I have no problem with the conferences or people attending them as long as they are paying their own way.  Our leadership does not, we the members pay for them.  That was the thrust of my original post and no matter how you try to twist it, is still the thrust of my argument.
So, you realize that there would still be a command council meeting even if the national conference was  cancelled, right?  Because they meet in person twice a year.  (And having the meeting in conjunction with the national conference actually saves money.)


Ned Lee

Yes, but since only approximately 70 people are required at the Command Council they wouldn't need to be at expensive hotels, nor would it be more than a weekend.  Since the argument you made for selecting hotels such as the 2017 NC is that they need to be able to handle hundreds of people, if it was only the command council then that need would be eliminated. If they need to meet in person twice a year perhaps its time for a change.  I once again recommend they embrace technology.  Many companies I have worked for have meetings via videoconference and telecon all the time to save money (as they have a responsibility to the shareholders to minimize costs and maximize profit) Then the national conference would be for those who have the wherewithal and desire to pay to go, network and have a great time.   

Volunteer leaders pay their own way in CAP all the time.  I'm a member of the wing staff and need to travel to the wing staff meeting every month; as deputy group commander I need to attend events all over the the group which is a large geographical area, as squadron commander in addition to of course going to meetings I also need to attend things like the wing conference and any group commanders call.  My fellow leaders and I pay our own way and as I'm sure you're aware given your vast CAP experience it is at the lower levels of command that someone is far more likely to be thrust into a command position as opposed to preparing for it and "running" for it as is done at Wing at higher levels.

I've been a volunteer with the American Red Cross for 10 years and I've been to regional conferences as far as I know everyone paid their own way but of course I've never asked so I could very easily be wrong of course there are no member dues in the Red Cross, once again none that I have ever seen so its a little bit of an apples and oranges comparison.

The only other charitable organizations I have personally been involved in have been the Masons and the Shriners but they are organized on state (Masons) or center (Shrine) lines and therefore there is great diversity on how they deal with financial matters.  I do know that when people planned to be the Potentate they started saving years in advance due to the large out of pocket expenses involved with the taking of this volunteer leadership position

I guess we would actually have to see what the effect would be by actually requiring the leadership to pay that extra few thousand.  When we the members are being asked to contribute money above and beyond dues to the organization its time for us to take a hard look at costs and cut wherever we can, after all what to you think the effect of volunteer availability, diversity aspects, and morale of our rank and file will be as they are constantly needing to dip into their pockets while the senior leadership is spending their money attending conferences?

etodd

#82
Try this experiment at all the National, Regional and Wing Conferences for a year.

Eliminate the Saturday night dinner and awards banquet. Tell folks they are on their own to enjoy a night out on the town and suggest some local restaurants. Any that want to network, could do it on their own.

My bet is that attendance would be cut in half, if not more.   >:D
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

MSG Mac

#83
Quote from: etodd on April 29, 2017, 03:01:48 AM
Try this experiment at all the National, Regional and Wing Conferences for a year.

Eliminate the Saturday night dinner and awards banquet. Tell folks they are on their own to enjoy a night out on the town and suggest some local restaurants. Any that want to network, could do it on their own.

My bet is that attendance would be cut in half, if not more.   >:D

Actually ditching the Banquet at these events generally saves the cost of a hotel room and the banquet equates to about a $200 savings.
Some Wings have to review their conference requirements. Our neighbors in NATCAP have their one day conference at Andrews AFB and their banquet at Bolling, AFB. Total cost about $40 for the banquet The conference was free.
MDWG's conference is a three day affair Friday evening through Sunday a.m. Rooms $109/night and $75 registration to include the banquet. Cadets have a flat fee of $165 for everything., including lodging (4 per room). 

We should be looking at bases that have conference centers or college that have classrooms available on a weekend. Big savings without extra cost for resort fees, A/V setups, etc. Just because we often say "Come and Pay" we don't have to live up to the motto.

Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Ned

#84
So, you can't find a single large organization that requires their paid or volunteer leadership to pay out of pocket for mandatory national meetings?


OK, then.   Are we done?


Quote from: Alaric on April 29, 2017, 01:22:24 AM

Volunteer leaders pay their own way in CAP all the time.

Of course.  Just like all the current wing and region commanders do all the time for local stuff.  Out of curiosity, as a wing staff guy paying out of your own pocket, just how many airfares and hotel rooms have you paid for out of pocket for mandatory meetings?  Wouldn't a travel budget have helped you perform your duties?


Paul Creed III

Many of the conferences I attend in my paid life have tele-conference options so one can choose to be on-site or attend many of the sessions from a remote location for a cheaper conference rate. Having such an option available would allow for more folks to attend at least a portion of the conference. Not everyone can burn the leave time from work or the Benjamins for the travel but, with the tele-conference option, one could still get the benefit of the sessions.

Banquets, which are typically optional, are something that should continue to recognize those folks who have earned some bling. Take away the opportunity to show off the new hardware and it could lead to further membership declines since the folks who need that public recognition would go to an organization that provides it.
Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
Group 3 Ohio Wing sUAS Program Manager

Alaric

#86
Quote from: Ned on April 29, 2017, 09:14:34 AM
So, you can't find a single large organization that requires their paid or volunteer leadership to pay out of pocket for mandatory national meetings?


OK, then.   Are we done?


Quote from: Alaric on April 29, 2017, 01:22:24 AM

Volunteer leaders pay their own way in CAP all the time.

Of course.  Just like all the current wing and region commanders do all the time for local stuff.  Out of curiosity, as a wing staff guy paying out of your own pocket, just how many airfares and hotel rooms have you paid for out of pocket for mandatory meetings?  Wouldn't a travel budget have helped you perform your duties?

Every year there is a commander's call the Sunday after the Wing conference (varies with the year).  Every SAREX that is more than an hour away from my home, and at least 1 PD weekend a year.   Where as I'm sure it would have helped my bottom line, I knew what I was getting into and if it becomes untenable, just like any other aspect of my duties I will step down

Alaric

Quote from: Ned on April 29, 2017, 09:14:34 AM
So, you can't find a single large organization that requires their paid or volunteer leadership to pay out of pocket for mandatory national meetings?


OK, then.   Are we done?


You can be done whenever you want Colonel.  I didn't look for other organizations as a) I don't believe their travel policies would be online and b) as has been mentioned on any number of occasions we are a very unique organization. For instance you drew a comparison with the Red Cross.  The Red Cross for instance does not collect dues from its volunteers to subsidize other volunteers, as I have belonged to a church since I was in 8th grade I really have no clue how they work.

Just because we have always done it that way and others do it that way do not mean that is the way it should be done

"Humans are allergic to change. They love to say, "We've always done it this way." I try to fight that. That's why I have a clock on my wall that runs counter-clockwise." - Grace Hopper

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone." ― John Quincy Adams

Ned

Argument by aphorism.  Sure:

"Change simply for the sake of change is an abdication of leadership."  John Luke.

So, it sounds like we agree that reimbursement of necessary travel for the volunteer and paid leadership of a national organization is the norm.  We also agree that the leadership should minimize costs by meeting electronically when feasible.  Which the CAP leadership does.

Our only area of disagreement appears to be your strongly held personal opinion that - despite the mainstream position of reimbursing the leadership for necessary national travel, CAP shouldn't do that.  Even if that means that ordinary members of modest means could never be wing and region commanders.

OK, then.  I'm going downstairs to General Assembly.  Thank you for the discussion.


Alaric

#89
Quote from: Ned on April 29, 2017, 02:21:12 PM
Argument by aphorism.  Sure:

"Change simply for the sake of change is an abdication of leadership."  John Luke.

So, it sounds like we agree that reimbursement of necessary travel for the volunteer and paid leadership of a national organization is the norm.  We also agree that the leadership should minimize costs by meeting electronically when feasible.  Which the CAP leadership does.

Our only area of disagreement appears to be your strongly held personal opinion that - despite the mainstream position of reimbursing the leadership for necessary national travel, CAP shouldn't do that.  Even if that means that ordinary members of modest means could never be wing and region commanders.

OK, then.  I'm going downstairs to General Assembly.  Thank you for the discussion.

I note you skip the rest of the statement I made and concentrate on the quote.  For instance that the Red Cross does not take money from volunteers and use it for other volunteers.  If the travel allowance is so mainstream why don't we make it part of the operational budget paid for by the Air Force? 

Quote from: Ned on April 29, 2017, 02:21:12 PM
Even if that means that ordinary members of modest means could never be wing and region commanders.

Really, what about all those members who are not wing and region commanders who show up?  Are you saying the people that are supporting the national conference are some sort of wealthy elite?  Is the conference really just a meeting of the CAP members that are the 1% :)?   People are now incapable of saving for goals and limiting travel to what is absolutely necessary?  However do the rest of us ever get by?

Enjoy the General Assembly.  Back to the Encampment for me.