CAP Talk

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Don Shipley. He is a retired Navy SEAL Senior Chief. He is one of the few people who are trusted with keeping the SEAL Database, a listing of all past and present Seals. Here he confronts a Seal impostor who is also a member of CAP. During the course of the conversation he admits that he was never a SEAL.

Don Shipley Phony Navy SEAL of the Week... Phony SEAL Class 130 Clown... I was 131... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cM49wpLQg4#)

Disgraceful!

Note:  This video is NOT safe for work!!! 

Ha!  He's not the first one and he certainly won't be the last.

I think we've busted at least 4 on CAP Talk alone.

1.  SEAL (CAP Group Commander)
2.  Army Officer (Artillery)
3.  Ranger
4.  Army Officer (Pilot, Purple Heart)

Am I missing one?

I hope these liars get booted out of CAP after they are exposed.

I hate people the STEAL VALOR!!

Quote from: wuzafuzz on April 08, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
I hope these liars get booted out of CAP after they are exposed.

1.  SEAL (CAP Group Commander) - Resigned when exposed
2.  Army Officer (Artillery) - Vanished
3.  Ranger  -Admitted his faults (big apology) and is still in CAP
4.  Army Officer (Pilot, Purple Heart) - still claims she's all that; was allowed to resign from CAP

Quote from: Stonewall on April 08, 2013, 12:51:49 PM
4.  Army Officer (Pilot, Purple Heart) - still claims she's all that; maybe was allowed to resigned from CAP

FTFY.

Quote from: Stonewall on April 08, 2013, 10:30:43 AM
Ha!  He's not the first one and he certainly won't be the last.

I think we've busted at least 4 on CAP Talk alone.

1.  SEAL (CAP Group Commander)
2.  Army Officer (Artillery)
3.  Ranger
4.  Army Officer (Pilot, Purple Heart)

Am I missing one?

And a poser from the Great White North.

I don't know which is sadder, individuals who have never served and concoct an entire fake service history, or those who have served honorably and then decide after the fact to embellish their service record by piling on a load of 'dishonesty'.  What exactly is wrong with serving your country as 'just' a Navy diver (in the case of the phony SEAL) or 'just' a USAF Air Traffic Controller (in the case of the PH/Helo Pilot claim) anyway?

Maybe it's time to start a 'Stolen Valor' sticky, with links to the appropriate threads, if only to demonstrate to readers (casual and regulars) of CAPTalk that we're aware of and concerned with the issue, and proactive about it.  It sure would beat having Senior Chief Shipley or TAH or some other organization shoving it in CAP's face.  I understand where some members, if it were to happen within their Squadron/Group/Wing, might want to keep on lid on it as a form of damage control, but in today's world where everything and the kitchen sink is out there on the Internet that may be a bit too much of an Old School way of thinking.

I don't get how an individual who does this is allowed to remain in CAP (in the case of the phony 'Ranger').  It's not some sort of 'mistake', it's deliberately lying to mislead others, which is a violation of CAP's first Core Value, Integrity.  What exactly are we teaching Cadets and other Senior Members by doing so?  I really don't care how great a job they might have been (or are) doing in their assigned position within CAP.  Is CAP that worried about lawsuits, with an FOIA request for service records so easy to come by these days?  I even think that allowing someone who has done this to resign is ridiculous, CAPR 39-2 should revised so that a 2B would be automatic in these cases.  Make an example of these people, and let others know just how seriously CAP (as the Auxiliary of the USAF, for cripes sake!) views this issue.  But that's just me.  If it were really up to me, I'd be heating up the tar, collecting the feathers and looking for a suitable rail.

Quote from: lordmonar on April 08, 2013, 02:15:36 PM
And a poser from the Great White North.

Easy to forget that one. He's off winning all the wars singlehandedly.

Quote from: Bobble on April 08, 2013, 02:27:37 PMI don't get how an individual who does this is allowed to remain in CAP (in the case of the phony 'Ranger').  It's not some sort of 'mistake', it's deliberately lying to mislead others, which is a violation of CAP's first Core Value, Integrity.  What exactly are we teaching Cadets and other Senior Members by doing so?  I really don't care how great a job they might have been (or are) doing in their assigned position within CAP.  Is CAP that worried about lawsuits, with an FOIA request for service records so easy to come by these days?  I even think that allowing someone who has done this to resign is ridiculous, CAPR 39-2 should revised so that a 2B would be automatic in these cases.  Make an example of these people, and let others know just how seriously CAP (as the Auxiliary of the USAF, for cripes sake!) views this issue.  But that's just me.  If it were really up to me, I'd be heating up the tar, collecting the feathers and looking for a suitable rail.

This gets to the heart of how we provide advanced grade and allow the wear of military decorations.  Some commanders are unwilling to have the uncomfortable conversations necessary with their people.    I don't question every training ribbon or GCM I see, but members who showed up under my command with something
"unusual", were generally asked to substantiate it, and directed to remove things they could not.

What CAP needs is a regulation that requires full substantiation for anything a member wishes to wear on their uniform, military or CAP.  Make it simple, straightforward, and insure that current members are also required to substantiate.  If you were secret squirrel and your records were lost in the "big fire",
too bad, pull it.

People who claim to have achieved something in the military that they did not actually achieve are pitiful.  I feel sorry for them.  The worst of these are not those who claim to be a SEAL or Ranger or Green Beret but rather those that claim actual medals of valor such as the Medal of Honor, Silver Star, DFC, etc. 

I have great respect for all who served in the US military, especially combat arms personnel and more so those who have actually seen combat.  Special Forces personnel do get a bit more of a tip of the hat for their achievement however we need to remember that many average grunts have seen more action and been in more danger than many SF types. 

However all of that being said, this guy Shipley sure is full of himself.  Yes, he was a SEAL and has my respect for that but he comes across as a major league a-hole.   

CAP does seem to draw its share of the wannabe / faker crowd.  I suppose many do it because they feel the need for recognition and want to have a chest full of fruit salad when they wear the AF uniform.  Others do it because they want to appear as if they are elite, tough, big & bad, or whatever.  Heck, we have tons of phony Rangers.   Either way, it is mostly due to low self-esteem or a feeling of failure in real life.   In the end they are sad people. 

In a rare conjunction of the planets, days of the week, weather and the fact I saw a spotted horse rolling in the dust as I was driving with a black cat in my car........I agree with Eclipse on this.

And it is a simple solution.

Former military simply need to provide a DD214 or AD personnel provide a copy of their promotion orders/ID card and a decorations rip (which in the USAF you can get online).

Quote from: lordmonar on April 08, 2013, 03:27:41 PM
Former military simply need to provide a DD214 or AD personnel provide a copy of their promotion orders/ID card and a decorations rip (which in the USAF you can get online).

Standby to be shouted down by the "You don't need this information" crowd in 3...2...1...

I've met over 20 Navy SEALs in my life. Two of them were *really* Navy SEALs.

Quote from: NIN on April 08, 2013, 03:53:42 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on April 08, 2013, 03:27:41 PM
Former military simply need to provide a DD214 or AD personnel provide a copy of their promotion orders/ID card and a decorations rip (which in the USAF you can get online).

Standby to be shouted down by the "You don't need this information" crowd in 3...2...1...

Yes.....but I don't have a problem with telling them "You don't need to wear that bling"   >:D

In 1992 I enlisted in the US Marines during the end of my Junior year in Highschool.
That summer I was supposed to go to basic and then come back to finish out my senior year.
*ROADBLOCK!* My father decided he was not going to sign my application which was required as I was only 17 and would be until the end of my Senior year.
I spent the summer going to 'prep-weekends' at the local recruiting office with other guys like myself. We prepped in drill and C&C, rank recognition, PT... everything we could do legally as a group of civilian teenagers with the assistance of a guy who happened to be a member of the military during what was officially his "Off hours".

2.5 months of saturdays and sundays, gearing up mentally, everything else I could do and then *BAM*. I destroyed my ankle on a flight of stairs at band camp.  :o
By the time I was healed I had a fiance, a child on the way and was 1 year out of high school. When I went back to see the recruiter he told me to, "Get the 'heck' away from me and don't come back. This is something MY recruiter would have never done for me."

I took his advice and took care of my family. Tore me up as serving was one of my dreams at the time.... to some degree it still is.
Of course there was still the issue of passing a physical and considering the prior injury I was pretty sure NOT to but I didn't even try.

This is my story.... and no matter how much I wanted to serve, how badly I desired to be a member of our military and a part of a military FAMILY... I would never lie and say that I had served, let alone say I was highly decorated or served in the special forces.
People like that dishonor ME. What they do via their lies to active members of the military or our veterans is far worse.
Just my $.02

No they only dishonor themselves.  Not sure why you think they dishonor you.

Quote from: NIN on April 08, 2013, 03:53:42 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on April 08, 2013, 03:27:41 PM
Former military simply need to provide a DD214 or AD personnel provide a copy of their promotion orders/ID card and a decorations rip (which in the USAF you can get online).

Standby to be shouted down by the "You don't need this information" crowd in 3...2...1...

If for some strange unfathomable reason I wanted to wear the AF uniform and put my very few Army decs on it, I would have no issue providing my DD214.  If was asking for advanced rank or any privilege based upon my Army service, I would have no issue providing my DD214.   If it was a routine CAP policy for all veterans to provide their DD214, I would have no issue providing my DD214.   Why would anyone but a poser refuse?   

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 08, 2013, 04:12:53 PMWhy would anyone but a poser refuse?

They absolutely wouldn't.

Anyone that did legit "double secret stuff" isn't going to go around telling people he did "double secret stuff".

Wearing military decorations on an active uniform is a privilege afforded to those who deserve it.

If you can't substantiate it, sorry, but those are the breaks.  It won't impact your ability to serve in CAP one iota, but it speaks volumes
if you crab about it.

Stolen Valor, disrespect, core values, or just "What's your deal, man?"  pick whatever angle you want on this, but just like other seemingly
"trivial" "tells", it points to character flaws or even emotional instability - not the kinds of people who should be in a CAP uniform, either.

Is it clear from this who this actually is? Kinda curious.. some quick google fu is revealing nothing precise..

I actually know a "Legit" NAVY SEAL.

Yes, he was on a Secret SEAL TEAM, and yes is a Decorated Veteran.

He has taught me something since I have met him, he has told me, "The guys who go around Bragging about being in the Service, or Showing of there Medals, are the ones that didnt do anything in the Service, and are probably a Fake"

He says if you see a guy in town, wearing a SEAL Hat, 90% of the Time he was not a SEAL. He says SEALS have a certain deamenor about them, there look, stance, thinking process etc. he can find out in lees than a minute if they were a "Real" SEAL or not.

I have not a care in the World to show my DD-214 and my DD-215, I have no reason to hide anything. IMO people who dont show there DD-214, or Form 201a, or any other proof, is trying to hide something.

I faker checked both Navy SEALs that I met that were "real deals."

The first one, Harry O'Connor, was introduced to me as "a Navy SEAL and stuntman".   My faker radar went right up.

I introduced myself, and while we were talking said "SEALs, huh?  What was your BUD/S class?"

He laughed and said "You're faker checking me, aren't you?" and proceeded to rattle off his class #, swim buddies, boat crew and instructors.

(Sadly, Harry was killed filming a scene for the movie XXX with Vin Diesel)

Second guy was a tandem-master at my DZ. Didn't come off as a SEAL, but in conversation I said "You were with Naval Special Warfare?" and he said "Yep." I said "Crewman or operator?" He said "Operator." I looked him right in the eye and he started grinning. He was legit, too.

The rest all failed basic stupid check.

Quote from: a2capt on April 08, 2013, 04:38:21 PM
Is it clear from this who this actually is? Kinda curious.. some quick google fu is revealing nothing precise..

Based on the name in the video, it brought up the Linked In page referenced.

I cannot Disclose much about my Personal Friend, but lets just say this.

He was there with Jessica Lynch, He was there with Pat Tillman, He was there in Panama when Chief Don McFaul Got Killed. The names of people that he knows, the stories that he tells etc all check out. He is such a Teddy Bear, untill you piss him off.

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 08, 2013, 04:04:21 PM
No they only dishonor themselves.  Not sure why you think they dishonor you.

My point was backwards. You're right.
Another faker video just torked me off.

The thought wasn't really about me personally but in, "If it affects ME like this than I can only imagine what it does to those who truly did serve."
Just to clarify... even though it was off target. :)

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 08, 2013, 04:41:41 PM
He has taught me something since I have met him, he has told me, "The guys who go around Bragging about being in the Service, or Showing of there Medals, are the ones that didnt do anything in the Service, and are probably a Fake"

I have not a care in the World to show my DD-214 and my DD-215, I have no reason to hide anything. IMO people who dont show there DD-214, or Form 201a, or any other proof, is trying to hide something.

My NGB 22 is quite boring, actually.  All it really says is that I was a good boy, showed up and did what I was told.

This guy probably got by with more than any I can think of...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Waldo_Demara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Waldo_Demara)

(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4654087667647443&pid=15.1)

Among other things, he claimed to be a monk, a professor of psychology and a surgeon in the Royal Canadian Navy during the Korean War...during which he actually performed successful surgical operations in-theatre aboard HMCS Cayuga,  including pulling a bad tooth on the Captain of the Cayuga, combat-wounded Korean guerillas, and a leg amputation.

I dont know who is the Better Imposter Ferdinand Demara or Frank Abagnale.

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 08, 2013, 06:50:09 PM
I dont know who is the Better Imposter Ferdinand Demara or Frank Abagnale.

"A-beg-nale"

Quote from: johnnyb47 on April 08, 2013, 05:50:37 PM

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 08, 2013, 04:04:21 PM
No they only dishonor themselves.  Not sure why you think they dishonor you.

My point was backwards. You're right.
Another faker video just torked me off.

The thought wasn't really about me personally but in, "If it affects ME like this than I can only imagine what it does to those who truly did serve."
Just to clarify... even though it was off target. :)

I got it now.  Thanks for clarifying.

My thoughts on some of this might be a bit different than other veterans.  While I consider someone who lies about his accomplishments in military or even civilian life to be an embarrassment to himself and a bit of a low life, I don't take much personal affront to it.   In my mind it does not diminish my service or my accomplishments (meager as they are).  It only reflects poorly on the poser.  So while I do not care for the behavior and while I do express my opinion on it on forums such as this one, I do not get bent out of shape over it.   Now, if there was such a poser in my sphere of influence and I knew it, I would definitely take a prudent and diplomatic course of action to bring his behavior to an end but I would not let myself become agitated.

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 08, 2013, 03:25:14 PM
However all of that being said, this guy Shipley sure is full of himself.  Yes, he was a SEAL and has my respect for that but he comes across as a major league a-hole.   

Funny, I get the opposite impression.  He seems quite patient as he (slowly) pries the truth from an individual who is apparently an educated and accomplished adult, yet who continues to deny the truth even as Chief Shipley has the BUD/S class rosters in front of him on his computer.  I saw no outrage, no outright anger, certainly no yelling or screaming, just a sort of tired disgust as the individual in question was forced to admit he has been living an outright lie for who knows how long, and just getting to that point took what, five or six minutes of discussion/confrontation?  And the guy was probably making money off of those lies, based on the business he owns as shown on his LinkedIn page.  Yeah, Chief Shipley roles his eyes a lot, but so what?  He deals with these clowns on a daily basis.

Im glad to see it.  Posers are dangerous people.  Dangerous does not always mean they are out to kill you.  They take advantage of people, steal, lie without hesitation and put people in danger in many cases.  There is a guy where I am locally who runs a flight school based on his foundation of being an Army "spec ops" pilot and a former "Green Beret".  He was neither. In addition, he also specializes in teaching airborne LE tactics and SAR rescue tactics to include hoist, NVG, etc etc.  LE agencies have paid him tens of thousands to come and train the based on his "experience".   The guys military, fire, public safety and EMS claims are bogus.  Not to mention he is on his way to jail for forging military documents.   And guess what?  he is still pressing on hoping nobody will know he got caught.  People like that are con-men.... 21st century pirates looking to make a buck on the back of someone elses hard earned reputation.

Are all posers that way that in depth?  No.  They are not.  But taking them down one at a time, establishing databases and giving people the information they need to expose the dangerous posers is essential.  Taking down the ones you can puts the others on guard as well and make living the lie not so enjoyable.  Take them all down.  One poser at a time.   Most are easily debunked.  Some, like the guy we deal with out in my area, has many layers that had to be peeled back that the average person would not know how to navigate.

These are people whos lives, families, marriages, businesses and entire self identity has been formed around a lie.  Many just fade away when confronted.  Others can become violent when they see their entire identity is being unravelled in front of them.   

Quote from: Stonewall on April 08, 2013, 10:30:43 AM
Ha!  He's not the first one and he certainly won't be the last.

I think we've busted at least 4 on CAP Talk alone.

1.  SEAL (CAP Group Commander)
2.  Army Officer (Artillery)
3.  Ranger
4.  Army Officer (Pilot, Purple Heart)

Am I missing one?

You forgot the Marine Chief Warrant Officer sniper who was on here, very very briefly.  He had a Purple Heart and a Navy Marine Corps Medal, Gold Parachute Wings, etc etc in his signature.    He later replied back that he was just messing around with the ribbon builder and was not aware that it actually had posted to his site but still stood by being a sniper.  He then went on to say he went to an "in house" Jump School in Hawaii as part of a Recon unit and that he didnt have to go to Benning.  (Whatever) I asked him several questions about his service and ended up with a PM telling me he had more important things to do than justify himself to me.  Weird....  They were actually extremely simple questions any service member could have rattled off with no problem.

I sent the conversations to his Sq Commander and Grp Commander because he claimed to be a DCC.  I never heard anything back. 

I am wondering how that guy can teach that stuff with no "Official" Training? Also, on the show Dual Survivor who fakes his Experience. They must be really smart at fooling people. I stayed at a Holiday Inn Once, but that dosnt make me an Expert on Hotels.

Well the problem is, he does have the certs.  They are real and they are on his DD214.  Thats where most people stop.  He was in a position to have those certs put in to his file.  Problem is, when you contact the actual school, they have no record of him.  Oh.... not to mention, he did not go to Ft Rucker like every other pilot in history.  He was specially selected out of Special Forces and trained one-on-one to be a pilot so that he could insert his own team on operations.  yes...... thats how he avoids not having a grad cert from Rucker AND how he explains not being a Warrant. 

Trust me dude...... there are still people who dont believe it.  But the judge, the DA and his probation officer dont buy it. 

Well, someone who is able to get stuff "put into" his military records, assuming it's not just shopped, is operating on a whole
different level then the typical surplus store poser.

Quote from: Eclipse on April 08, 2013, 10:23:38 PM
Well, someone who is able to get stuff "put into" his military records, assuming it's not just shopped, is operating on a whole
different level then the typical surplus store poser.

You nailed that one.  But believe it or not, prior to the electronic age (this was all in the late 80s) your records were maintained at your unit.  It would be pretty easy to get some E2 admin geek to put an entry in your book.  I will spare the details, but that is what happened basically.   

But as with the video, the person Don Shipley was confronting was running a business based on his lies.  Those are the ones who need confronted.  Some guy trying to pick up some babe in a bar is of little concern. 

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 08, 2013, 09:55:38 PM... Gold Parachute Wings, etc etc in his signature.    He later replied back that he was just messing around with the ribbon builder and was not aware that it actually had posted to his site but still stood by being a sniper.  He then went on to say he went to an "in house" Jump School in Hawaii as part of a Recon unit and that he didnt have to go to Benning.  (Whatever)

Marines and sailors did not necessarily have to go to Airborne training at Benning. In the 1970s the Marines and the Navy had PR School at NAS Lakehurst, NJ. Lot of riggers have upgraded themselves after discharge from packing chutes for heroes to either Recon or SEAL.

My brother being a LT at a State Prison once asked me about special units. Every employee for prison guard who had a military background was Ranger/DELTA, Recon, SEAL or a PJ. I told him to ask them who cook, did payroll, or issue blankets. I saw that as a policeman too.

Our organization, though not unique to it I'm sure, is a magnet to those who.. want to live out what they may not have been able to elsewhere.

However, in this case on the surface it appears that while this particular offense was not used in CAP, rather used to boost qualifications when closing the sale to the personal coaching services. Suffice to say, it is a Small World, and it's not all "all the horses move, no chipped paint", like Disney.

When though, do you draw the line. If someone resorts to this, when have they resorted to similar nature within CAP, and in positions of leadership and mentorship, especially to cadets, what do you do? How can you be sure it's not happening?

There's now a pall of doubt cast over anything that comes from the direction.

A common theme, er, excuse is "well I was trying to motivate people". Yeah, great. What happens when they find out you were full of it?

Quote from: Private Investigator on April 09, 2013, 12:57:12 AM

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 08, 2013, 09:55:38 PM... Gold Parachute Wings, etc etc in his signature.    He later replied back that he was just messing around with the ribbon builder and was not aware that it actually had posted to his site but still stood by being a sniper.  He then went on to say he went to an "in house" Jump School in Hawaii as part of a Recon unit and that he didnt have to go to Benning.  (Whatever)

Marines and sailors did not necessarily have to go to Airborne training at Benning. In the 1970s the Marines and the Navy had PR School at NAS Lakehurst, NJ. Lot of riggers have upgraded themselves after discharge from packing chutes for heroes to either Recon or SEAL.

Not this guy.

With rare exception, I never meet veterans with REMF MOS's or AFSC's. I have never met a cook even though I ate 3 meals a day for many years in a DFAC.
I love when I ask someone what their MOS is and they say I was a Ranger....
I think it actually shocks people when I DONT self agrandize my own service. I humped a radio in the Army and drove a forklift in the Air Force.
I did get a Coast Guard Special Operations Service Riboon; does that make me an Operator?

Im just glad to tell people I was a Corpsman. Corpsman have a Great history at being the best of the best, and there one of the most decorated Corps in the Service. Whats wrong with just being in the Military? Bullets Dont Fly, Without Supply. Grunts dont Hook, without the Cook. Grunts will Bleed, without the medics good Deed.

It is also a fact that not all who have a combat arms MOS see actual combat and that many who have a REMF type of MOS do come under fire and are wounded or killed.  This seems to be especially true in the occupation / nation building in a hostile populace type of conflict that seem to be in vogue these days rather than the wars where there is more of a traditional battle front.   

We were always told that we were a soldier first and a ___________ second.  Fill in blank with whatever your MOS job was.   I was just lucky that I never had to put my soldiering skills to the ultimate test. 

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 08, 2013, 10:18:38 PM
Well the problem is, he does have the certs.  They are real and they are on his DD214.  Thats where most people stop.  He was in a position to have those certs put in to his file.  Problem is, when you contact the actual school, they have no record of him.  Oh.... not to mention, he did not go to Ft Rucker like every other pilot in history.  He was specially selected out of Special Forces and trained one-on-one to be a pilot so that he could insert his own team on operations.  yes...... thats how he avoids not having a grad cert from Rucker AND how he explains not being a Warrant. 

Trust me dude...... there are still people who dont believe it.  But the judge, the DA and his probation officer dont buy it.

Funny, I knew a guy at Elmendorf back in the 1980s who was a personnel type, who did this and got caught. He had ratcheted up his personnel file to the point that he even had an ID card shoing him as a first lieutenant when he got caught. He had a whole host of decorations, too. Last I knew, he got sentenced to Levenworth and a BCD or Dishonorable Discharge. If I remember correctly, his cover was blown when he got caught with the fake ID card.

What upsets me about cases like this is, first, the guy being confronted on the You Tube is a CAP officer and it makes all of us look bad. Second, I've even run into this where I worked it saddens me that some jerk thinks that they can snow me -- but then they get in the gold ol boy network, so Im' the one who suffers when they're exposed.

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 09, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
With rare exception, I never meet veterans with REMF MOS's or AFSC's. I have never met a cook even though I ate 3 meals a day for many years in a DFAC.
I love when I ask someone what their MOS is and they say I was a Ranger....
I think it actually shocks people when I DONT self agrandize my own service. I humped a radio in the Army and drove a forklift in the Air Force.
I did get a Coast Guard Special Operations Service Riboon; does that make me an Operator?

I did 8 years in the infantry and I have met more Marine Force Recon guys and more Green Berets since I have been out than I ever met while I was in!

Quote from: flyboy1 on April 09, 2013, 03:41:16 PMWhat upsets me about cases like this is, first, the guy being confronted on the You Tube is a CAP officer and it makes all of us look bad.

I don't think it really reflects on CAP at all - the comment on the front end is no big deal.

It's not like this kind of thing doesn't happen all the time and in the military services as well.
The military, congress, and the Federal Government as a whole had plenty of high-profile case of everything from "mistakes" to blatant lying.

For CAP it's generally been some goober puffing himself up, and means little outside those who knew or worked with him / her.
CAP should take steps to curtail it, but when it happens, it happens, no big deal to us, really.

Yeah I dont think this is an issue for CAP at all.  The extremely small percentage of people who are aware of this "phenomenon", then combine that with the even smaller percentage of people who will even follow up with CAP is probably not even measurable. 

People who are aware of posers and how they get in to organizations understand that its not CAPs fault that a member claims to be something.  Heck, when I was in the Army I had a MSgt/E9 who wore a SEAL Trident, Special Forces tab, Ranger tab and jump wings.  He was later booted dishonorably as an E1 when it was discovered that NONE of those quals were legit.  And he managed to get promoted from E-6 to E-9 with those "quals".  So if a guy can climb 3 pay grades in the Army claiming to be a SEAL, I cant imagine how CAP could be faulted. 

I don't believe this is a real big issue for cap either. NHQ is very good about substantiating PME credits for use in cap, and it's a local issue with regards to military bling ( ie the unit CC checking 214/215).

I believe we do have a large problem with our bling on the other hand, in the form of both seniors and cadets wearing ribbons they don't qualify for. One of my biggest pet peeves is the DR with silver V ribbon. It seems everyone has it, then when you ask what presidentially declared disaster they worked, they give you a blank look or mumble something about filling cloths bins for a hurricane or tornado. Anyway, sorry rant over.

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 09, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
With rare exception, I never meet veterans with REMF MOS's or AFSC's. I have never met a cook even though I ate 3 meals a day for many years in a DFAC.
I love when I ask someone what their MOS is and they say I was a Ranger....
I think it actually shocks people when I DONT self agrandize my own service. I humped a radio in the Army and drove a forklift in the Air Force.
I did get a Coast Guard Special Operations Service Riboon; does that make me an Operator?

I was a helicopter mechanic.  Pretty straightforward wrench bender. Did some cool stuff, flew some cool customers around, but it wasn't like I was in the Task Force or something.

Occasionally I run into a guy who was, say, a 57Hotel ("Self-Propelled Forklift") and he'll be like "I was a Fifty-Seven Hotel.." and then he'll pause like "Maybe this guy won't know what that is and I can tell him I was a special operations medic.." and then I say "Oh, self-propelled forklift?"  *poof* there goes the last of that poor guy's self-esteem. :)

A co-worker last year, I knew him to be a Gulf War-era medic in the Army Reserves.  He's a good dude, pretty squared away IT tech. I like getting a beer with him now and again.  One day, he regales me with tales of derring-do from the sandbox, and then says "Yeah, I got a Silver Star for the Gulf War."

Me: (to myself) "Crap, man, did you have do that?"

We don't get much in the way of beer now.

I got an ICM, does that make me cool?

In 2002 I lived in an apartment in 2002 in Reston, VA.  The gentleman adjacent to me drove a red explorer where I noticed a SEAL Team III sticker on the back (see pic).  Not uncommon for these types to live in that area with all the spook-tacular things going on in that area at the time.

On another day, I notice a set of Navy whites hanging in his window with a Trident.  In the back seat was a flight suit with a leather name tag that also had a Trident and his full name.  Easy enough, I call my friend, Steve Collins, a retired SEAL who owns a private security company in the area.  No, no SEAL by that name, ever.

A couple weeks later the complex had a 4th of July party and Mr. SEAL was there.  He had a brand on his arm, like football players often have.  I ask him about it and he says it's his BUDS class number (168).  I act like I know nothing about SEALs (I spent from 1996 to 2001 working with SEALs and people like them) and continue asking questions while acting impressed.  "I was Team 3, now I'm Team 6, I'm a Chief and on loan to the CIA", he says.

The real story:   He was an IS in the Navy, an E-5, who got a hardship discharge due to family.  He was a support guy at Team 3, but after getting out he began telling people he was a SEAL and he knew A LOT about SEALs, to include having a class number (not sure what the brand 168 was all about).  My buddy, the retired Master Chief SEAL showed up to his apartment and confronted him.  He later wrote a long apology and begged for forgiveness.  He held a TS clearance and worked on a CIA contract through another company doing computer stuff.

It's a small world story coming....  My ex-girlfriend (we're still friends) was the Personnel Security Manager for that company.  She handled their clearances.  I quickly sent her the pictures, email apology, and a note saying "this guy works for you".  He lost his job.  He used a hardship excuse to get out of the Navy to take care of his family in New York, however, he actually did it to get a six figure job in the DC area.  Another lie!

I have mental firefights with myself about the ethics of including my own name on 120s for activities I was heavily involved in but where I'm the approving authority.
I cannot imagine living with a house of cards like this hanging over my head.

This has to either be a mental illness or some sort of narcissistic disorder.

I guess the other piece is either the apathy or non-existence of their families and "friends".  How does a spouse >not< know when a person
isn't in the Navy anymore.   Don't these guys file taxes?  "Where's your W2 from the Navy?" (etc.)

Reminds me on the flipside of the story I heard a few years back from a reservist.

At a banquet the CC was giving a toast and thanking his people for their "hard work and dedication, despite the low pay and long hours..."

One wife stood turned to her husband and said "You get paid for this?" and stormed out...

How many people remember ADM Jeremy Boorda, the first former enlisted sailor to rise to become the Chief of Naval Operations, and the sequence of events that led to his death ( http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm) )?

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 09, 2013, 06:16:48 PM
How many people remember ADM Jeremy Boorda, the first former enlisted sailor to rise to become the Chief of Naval Operations, and the sequence of events that led to his death ( http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm) )?

Remember him?  I had his coin!

I was at the Pentagon as an Army E4 and taking a friend (former cadet with me, and then Cav Scout) on a tour.  It happened to be the Friday before the Army/Navy game.  As we're standing outside of Adm Boorda's office, we start talking about how the Army is going to whoop up on the Navy.

The Admiral walks out and says, "soldier, you really think the Army's going to beat Navy?"  We snap to attention (I was in uniform, friend was not), and both reply with a "HOOAH, SIR".  He gave me his coin and said (as he looked at my name tag), "Specialist Stonewall, I tell you what.  When Navy beats Army, bring that coin back to me and you can knock out some push-ups for me.  If, by a small chance, Army beats Navy, you can keep the coin."   

I didn't have to go back.  That was 1994 or 1995, I forgot.  I think Army won both years anyway.

In 2002 I sold the coin for $1,000.

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 09, 2013, 06:16:48 PM
How many people remember ADM Jeremy Boorda, the first former enlisted sailor to rise to become the Chief of Naval Operations, and the sequence of events that led to his death ( http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm) )?

I remember reporting that incident on my local newscast in our "national news" segment.  Later I looked into it because it seemed so odd that he'd do something like that ...

... the latest information I've been able to access is that Admiral Boorda was indeed entitled to wear the "V" device.  So it makes me wonder if the reporters who were hounding him about it ever actually told, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

Jack

Quote from: Stonewall on April 09, 2013, 06:03:32 PM
In 2002 I lived in an apartment in 2002 in Reston, VA.  The gentleman adjacent to me drove a red explorer where I noticed a SEAL Team III sticker on the back (see pic).  Not uncommon for these types to live in that area with all the spook-tacular things going on in that area at the time.

On another day, I notice a set of Navy whites hanging in his window with a Trident.  In the back seat was a flight suit with a leather name tag that also had a Trident and his full name.  Easy enough, I call my friend, Steve Collins, a retired SEAL who owns a private security company in the area.  No, no SEAL by that name, ever.

A couple weeks later the complex had a 4th of July party and Mr. SEAL was there.  He had a brand on his arm, like football players often have.  I ask him about it and he says it's his BUDS class number (168).  I act like I know nothing about SEALs (I spent from 1996 to 2001 working with SEALs and people like them) and continue asking questions while acting impressed.  "I was Team 3, now I'm Team 6, I'm a Chief and on loan to the CIA", he says.

The real story:   He was an IS in the Navy, an E-5, who got a hardship discharge due to family.  He was a support guy at Team 3, but after getting out he began telling people he was a SEAL and he knew A LOT about SEALs, to include having a class number (not sure what the brand 168 was all about).  My buddy, the retired Master Chief SEAL showed up to his apartment and confronted him.  He later wrote a long apology and begged for forgiveness.  He held a TS clearance and worked on a CIA contract through another company doing computer stuff.

It's a small world story coming....  My ex-girlfriend (we're still friends) was the Personnel Security Manager for that company.  She handled their clearances.  I quickly sent her the pictures, email apology, and a note saying "this guy works for you".  He lost his job.  He used a hardship excuse to get out of the Navy to take care of his family in New York, however, he actually did it to get a six figure job in the DC area.  Another lie!

Wow, he got what he deserved, who the heck just hangs there whites in the Window like that? Thats like saying hey look at me whites, me a SEAL. Fart Noise. He used his status to gain employment for a 6 figure job, ran his mouth to much, got caught and then fired. He deserves everly last bit on that punishment. I swear people like this piss me off.

Another Example: I had some National Guard guy walk into a store where i was getting gas, he comes in there bragging about him being in Iraq, saying he did this and did that, i just stood in line anD smiled. Who just randomly braggs about that stuff. I am very modest about my service, my truck may have some moto stickers on it,  but whos dosnt? I go to the same Grocery Store almost everyday because it is close ot my house, One of the employees asked how I was Handicapped and why do I park in Handicapped spot, told a quick story about me being in the service. She is like, I didnt know that about you, you never said anything about that, I said I dont, I dont bragg about my service. 

No Offense to the Guard.

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 09, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
With rare exception, I never meet veterans with REMF MOS's or AFSC's. I have never met a cook even though I ate 3 meals a day for many years in a DFAC.

You just met one... ex-Air Force cook - DEATH FROM WITHIN!  ;D

With the cultural shift that has adopted the idea that all of our military, police, fire, EMTs, etc., are all "heroes" there is bound to be a group of people who are looking to cash in on that public recognition. 

When I was in VAWG, there was a guy who paraded around at wing events and told his "When I was one of the NY firefighters at 9/11" stories.  It turned out that he just had some sort of disease that broke his body and never did something with his life.  So, when he moved from NY to VA, a new group of people and the timing of just being after 9/11 presented him with a chance to be someone he never was, and people ate it up.  His wife was even in on his lie.

However, we don't just see people who have no service faking it, it's people in the military who aggrandize what they've done, etc. 

I've never served, but am in a military family, and I just don't understand the "connection" people have to their service.  Even if someone does 4 years and calls it quits, they spend the rest of their life talking about those four years, wearing a baseball cap that says "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and stickers all over their cars.  People define themselves by their military service and I don't understand it.

I was a chapter officer for a military associated group, and we had a member of our board that was a retired Colonel, worked in a big time position for an even bigger defense contractor - pulling in hundreds of thousands a year, far more impressive than being a "Colonel."  We would do nametags on the tables at lunches and his said "Mr. XXXX."  After one of the lunches he starts yelling at the lunch coordinator about how he wants his nametags to say "Colonel XXXX" because "God d*** it! I think I've earned that much, don't you?"

Frankly, I couldn't understand how someone who has been removed from the military for 15 years and has surpassed their position in the military on the civilian side (both in scope of responsibility and income) would hang onto that part of his life with such passion.  I just don't get it, move on already. 

Just yesterday, there was a woman running around the neighborhood with a t-shirt on it that said nothing but "VETERAN" in HUGE letters on both the front an the back.  Why?!

In the CAP context, all I can think of are the people who earned the Spaatz 35 years ago and lead off every conversation with "I earned the Spaatz."  Great, what have you done during the rest of your life?  Certainly earning the Spaatz wasn't the pinnacle of your life, right? 

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 09, 2013, 06:50:12 PMWhy?!

As you know I still serve in the Guard, so that means I have a civilian career throughout that time.  My only active duty time was 1991 to 1995 (4 years, 17 weeks to be exact).

To most people, especially my family, my civilian career experiences are far more impressive than my military.

Civilian:   Worked for US intelligence organization for 5 years (96 - 01) doing some high speed stuff along side some high speed people.  Protected a presidentially appointed person (01 - 06) that had me in 50 different countries living the high life and meeting world leaders and famous people.  I have been the director of security at a Five Diamond ocean front golf resort.  And yeah, I was a cop for a couple of years, too.

Military:   Army Active/Guard (91 - 01) Infantry, Air Guard Security Forces (04 - Present).  Two deployments, Bosnia and Afghanistan.  No tabs, tridents, or "V" devices.

What am I most fond of?  My military experiences.

It truly is hard to describe.

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 09, 2013, 06:50:12 PM
With the cultural shift that has adopted the idea that all of our military, police, fire, EMTs, etc., are all "heroes" there is bound to be a group of people who are looking to cash in on that public recognition...

Frankly, I couldn't understand how someone who has been removed from the military for 15 years and has surpassed their position in the military on the civilian side (both in scope of responsibility and income) would hang onto that part of his life with such passion.  I just don't get it, move on already...

Just yesterday, there was a woman running around the neighborhood with a t-shirt on it that said nothing but "VETERAN" in HUGE letters on both the front an the back.  Why?!

After leaving the White House, President Theodore Roosevelt preferred to be referred to as Colonel Roosevelt in recognition of his service in the Spanish-American War and his ride up San Juan Hill.

I heard an interview with a gentleman that was a US Navy veteran of the Second World War. When asked to describe his life and successful career in retrospect, he went into great depth and detail about his three or four Navy years and then said, "...and then, I got this job and I was here for 40+ years." or words to that effect.

Sometimes we measure our life and remember best the things that mean the most which means in many cases serving a cause greater than oneself with people who become a new family.

Just last week, my son (now a Soldier on a large post out west) was walking down the street on post when a gentleman my age jogged up behind him and read his name on the back of his patrol cap and said, "Hey, did your dad go to flight school?" When my son told him "yes", he said, "Tell him Greg [so and so} said, 'Hi.'" I haven't seen or heard from Greg in over 20 years. The military is a small, close-knit fraternity.

Does that mean that everyone has their entire military resume posted in stickers on the back window of their vehicle? No. But, so what if they do. At some point in their life, they did something that meant something to them and they believe it mattered.

There are worse faults to have.

Quote from: Stonewall on April 09, 2013, 07:00:30 PM
It truly is hard to describe.

I totally get it, and I thank CAP for the understanding.  I have to admit to a similar attitude before I joined, then I got to see just what it takes to be
truly successful in the military, especially at the level of any kind of special operator of higher-grade E or O.

It's the intensity of the experience, coupled with it being something the average person doesn't do or understand.  The camaraderie, the teamwork,
the idea that the guy next to you will have your back, etc., etc.

I've done things in CAP that pale in comparison to the average weekend for someone in combat, but are leagues above the average couch rider.
It makes me appreciate, and be somewhat jealous of those who had the opportunity to serve full-time, but I wouldn't ever consider faking things
just for an atta-boy or free drink.

In a lot of these cases, you see people with little else going on in their lives, or a life that "fell short" (for whatever reason), and part of that "falling short"
was a lack of mental preparedness to be satisfied with reality.

Jimmydeanno,

I agree with a lot of what you wrote.  I know people who cling very tightly to a very small slice of their life, both military and civilian.   I spent three years in the US Army but I do not define myself by it.  I spent four years at Purdue University but do not define myself by it.  They both contributed to me being the individual I am today but neither one really defines me.   The 25 plus years since those endeavors have done so much more to make me into the person I am, for better or for worse.  I know people who, decades later, are all into their alma mater where they spent just four years of their life.   That's not me.   I don't follow Purdue's teams, I don't belong to the alumni association, I don't go back for homecoming, etc.   

Your story about the former Colonel wanting is name tag to reflect his prior status is almost as ridiculous as Senator Boxer chastising a General a few years back for calling her ma'am rather than Senator.   While she still held that position, her attitude was ridiculous.   People of all occupations seem to want to hold onto their prior titles.  High ranking military officers along with doctors, judges, governors, presidents, etc. just can't let go of it for some reason.   

The stickers on the back of my jeep represent who I am today.  I have CAP, EAA and AOPA stickers which are all organizations I currently belong to.  Nothing reflecting the Army or Purdue.  Those are the past. 

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 09, 2013, 05:29:09 PM
I got an ICM, does that make me cool?

That depends... whats an ICM?  If its something cool then I have two more clusters than you do :)

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 09, 2013, 07:32:05 PM

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 09, 2013, 05:29:09 PM
I got an ICM, does that make me cool?

That depends... whats an ICM?  If its something cool then I have two more clusters than you do :)

Inter-Continental Minivan

Oh.... darn.  Then nevermind.

Hey, Rob, do you have two clusters on your Minivan?  I don't even have a Minivan.

My Sweetie and I, with our 45 years of combined Naval service, have very little that advertises our service. There are base stickers to get us through the gate, and her car has a vanity plate that says 2NVVTS. That's it.

I wear my Midway hat when I'm doing things on the boat, or at the local airshows. Otherwise, I only have one other piece of clothing that advertises Navy - a sweatshirt with the Navy seal on it.

Quote from: SarDragon on April 09, 2013, 08:52:30 PM
My Sweetie and I, with our 45 years of combined Naval service, have very little that advertises our service. There are base stickers to get us through the gate, and her car has a vanity plate that says 2NVVTS. That's it.

I wear my Midway hat when I'm doing things on the boat, or at the local airshows. Otherwise, I only have one other piece of clothing that advertises Navy - a sweatshirt with the Navy seal on it.

You keep a Navy SEAL on your sweatshirt? Im not messing wih you

Not funny. Don't quit your day job to become a comic.

I think those seal sweatshirts are kinda lame.

(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/341150493/baby_harp_seal_zip_hoodie.jpg?color=HeatherGrey&height=460&width=460&qv=90)

Quote from: SarDragon on April 09, 2013, 09:09:31 PM
Not funny. Don't quit your day job to become a comic.

I am genuinely sorry.

WARNING to the wearer:  The above sweater requires the surrender of your man card and may result in the wearer being physically assaulted and/or verbally harassed at most sporting events.

My military resume is far more impressive than my civilian experience...  spent 9 years in  Security  Forces,  been to afew decent schools,  went to  Kyrgyzstan,  Iraq,  Germany,  etc.  Came  out  with a V  device, ARCOM  and some  other awards...   civilian:   security  guard...  I  am most proud of my military service. I was the 1%

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 09, 2013, 07:10:01 PM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 09, 2013, 06:50:12 PM
With the cultural shift that has adopted the idea that all of our military, police, fire, EMTs, etc., are all "heroes" there is bound to be a group of people who are looking to cash in on that public recognition...

Frankly, I couldn't understand how someone who has been removed from the military for 15 years and has surpassed their position in the military on the civilian side (both in scope of responsibility and income) would hang onto that part of his life with such passion.  I just don't get it, move on already...

Just yesterday, there was a woman running around the neighborhood with a t-shirt on it that said nothing but "VETERAN" in HUGE letters on both the front an the back.  Why?!

After leaving the White House, President Theodore Roosevelt preferred to be referred to as Colonel Roosevelt in recognition of his service in the Spanish-American War and his ride up San Juan Hill.

I heard an interview with a gentleman that was a US Navy veteran of the Second World War. When asked to describe his life and successful career in retrospect, he went into great depth and detail about his three or four Navy years and then said, "...and then, I got this job and I was here for 40+ years." or words to that effect.

Sometimes we measure our life and remember best the things that mean the most which means in many cases serving a cause greater than oneself with people who become a new family.

Just last week, my son (now a Soldier on a large post out west) was walking down the street on post when a gentleman my age jogged up behind him and read his name on the back of his patrol cap and said, "Hey, did your dad go to flight school?" When my son told him "yes", he said, "Tell him Greg [so and so} said, 'Hi.'" I haven't seen or heard from Greg in over 20 years. The military is a small, close-knit fraternity.

Does that mean that everyone has their entire military resume posted in stickers on the back window of their vehicle? No. But, so what if they do. At some point in their life, they did something that meant something to them and they believe it mattered.

There are worse faults to have.

Don't forget that Dwight Eisenhower petitioned the Army Chief of Staff to be returned to full military service after his presidency in order to be called "General."

As far as why military service defines a person's life, I guess I understand. It's a lot about history and traditions of the service you join and the pride you feel in that service. It is also about the fact that for one possibly brief moment in one's life, you met a challenge or you measured up and did your duty -- what ever that was. All of a sudden your in a brotherhood or sisterhood of others like you that is based on an oath and cameraderie that isn't often found outside military service (which is probably why there are so many fakes).

I'm an Air Force veteran -- forever and always will be an Airman. For a relatively brief period early in my Air Force career, I was also a security specialist or Security Policeman and forever bonded to others by a blue beret -- and fiercely proud of that fact -- a bond that has transended crosstraining into other careerfields and assignments.

It becomes part of you. My wife always jokes with others about how you can take the man out of the Air Force but never the Air Force out of the man.

Quote...you can take the man out of the Air Force/ [Army/Navy/Marines] but never the Air Force/[Army/Navy/Marine] out of the man.

Truer words have seldom been spoken.

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 09, 2013, 07:10:01 PM
......
After leaving the White House, President Theodore Roosevelt preferred to be referred to as Colonel Roosevelt in recognition of his service in the Spanish-American War and his ride up San Juan Hill.

A little drift; I had just found out the other day Col Roosevelt was awarded the medal of honor for his actions that day on San Juan Hill.... but not until recently.... under Clinton actually.  Apparently he pissed and moaned a little too loud about how troops were being neglected in PR after the war ended and (in theory) that derailed the awarding of the medal at the time.

mk

Quote from: sarmed1 on April 10, 2013, 03:52:42 AM

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 09, 2013, 07:10:01 PM
......
After leaving the White House, President Theodore Roosevelt preferred to be referred to as Colonel Roosevelt in recognition of his service in the Spanish-American War and his ride up San Juan Hill.

A little drift; I had just found out the other day Col Roosevelt was awarded the medal of honor for his actions that day on San Juan Hill.... but not until recently.... under Clinton actually.  Apparently he pissed and moaned a little too loud about how troops were being neglected in PR after the war ended and (in theory) that derailed the awarding of the medal at the time.

mk

With the award of the Medal of Honor to Colonel Roosevelt, he became the father portion of only the second father-son pair to receive the medal. Theodore Roosevelt's son, Theodore Jr., was the first general officer to go ashore on D-Day and thus secured his.

Then-1LT Arthur MacArthur was awarded the MoH for leading a charge up Missionary Ridge in the Civil War. "On Wisconsin" was the battle cry to his regiment. Of course, Arthur's son Douglas was awarded the MoH upon his return to the Phillipines in WWII.

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 10, 2013, 04:14:35 AM

Quote from: sarmed1 on April 10, 2013, 03:52:42 AM

Quote from: FlyTiger77 link=topic=17245.msg310370#msg310370 date=

mk
/quote]

With the award of the Medal of Honor to Colonel Roosevelt, he became the father portion of only the second father-son pair to receive the medal. Theodore Roosevelt's son, Theodore Jr., was the first general officer to go ashore on D-Day and thus secured his.

Captain (I think) Arthur MacArthur was awarded the MoH for leading a charge up Missionary Ridge in the Civil War. "On Wisconsin" was the battle cry to his regiment. Of course, Arthur's son Douglas was awarded the MoH upon his return to the Phillipines in WWII.

Actually he got it when he arrived in Australia in 1942.

GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on April 09, 2013, 06:35:36 PM

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 09, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
With rare exception, I never meet veterans with REMF MOS's or AFSC's. I have never met a cook even though I ate 3 meals a day for many years in a DFAC.

You just met one... ex-Air Force cook - DEATH FROM WITHIN!  ;D

Now I know two cooks   :clap:

In the early 1990s, when I was a FTO in the police department I had a trainee who was an Army Veteran of Viet Nam. His whole life was about the two years in the Army and the year he spent in VN. We go out to the cruiser and he'll say, "what is today?" I'll tell him April 10, figuring he will start our log. He will then state, "April 10, 1970, on Hill 395 after getting mortared all night we receive sniper fire during the daylight hours. It was Sunday and the Battalion Chaplain will not be coming to Hill 395 due to the Viet Cong harrassment." He did not pass probation. He needed some counseling.

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

That will teach me to not try to quote history from memory!!  :)

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Not to nitpick or anything... ;)

MacArthur was still a four-star when he got the MoH in 1942.  He was promoted to General of the Army in 1944.

(And was twice considered for promotion to six-star General of the Armies ... but that's another story.)

Jack

Quote from: ColonelJack on April 10, 2013, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Not to nitpick or anything... ;)

MacArthur was still a four-star when he got the MoH in 1942.  He was promoted to General of the Army in 1944.

(And was twice considered for promotion to six-star General of the Armies ... but that's another story.)

Jack

He and his father, Arthur MacArthur, are the only father and son MoH recipients.  Together, they wore a combined 8 stars.

Quote from: Stonewall on April 10, 2013, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: ColonelJack on April 10, 2013, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Not to nitpick or anything... ;)

MacArthur was still a four-star when he got the MoH in 1942.  He was promoted to General of the Army in 1944.

(And was twice considered for promotion to six-star General of the Armies ... but that's another story.)

Jack

He and his father, Arthur MacArthur, are the only father and son MoH recipients.  Together, they wore a combined 8 stars.

Except for Colonel Theodore Roosevelt of Rough Rider fame (awarded in the 1990s) and his son, BG Theodore Roosevelt Jr., who was awarded the MoH for his actions as the first general officer ashore on D-Day.

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 10, 2013, 01:28:57 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on April 10, 2013, 01:17:36 PMHe and his father, Arthur MacArthur, are the only father and son MoH recipients.  Together, they wore a combined 8 stars.

Except for Colonel Theodore Roosevelt of Rough Rider fame (awarded in the 1990s) and his son, BG Theodore Roosevelt Jr., who was awarded the MoH for his actions as the first general officer ashore on D-Day.

I guess history does change.

I was at the Pentagon on a tour when I learned of the MacArthurs.  That was in the early 90s.

Most the Time the MoH is Posthumous. I do think, IMO, that Chesty Puller should have got a MoH, but he could not keep his mouth shut. Also, I beleive the MoH has to do with Popularity more than Heroism.

Im thinking after the 4th Navy Cross, getting notified about his 5th award was probably something like "Yeah, I got plans this weekend, can you just put it on my desk and Ill get it Monday when I come in."   >:D

Good Night Chesty.... Wherever you are!

Quote from: ColonelJack on April 10, 2013, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Not to nitpick or anything... ;)

MacArthur was still a four-star when he got the MoH in 1942.  He was promoted to General of the Army in 1944.

(And was twice considered for promotion to six-star General of the Armies ... but that's another story.)

Jack

yes, but it is common practice to refer to him at his highest grade, not the grade he received it at. I personally don't think he deserved it for the Philippines.

Two things, one is if you ever want to know who was a clerk in the service (not that that is bad they are VITAL jobs), look for the guy wearing a Ranger, Green Beret, or Delta tee shirt.  Most special operators aren't (now more then ever,) too keen on advertising that fact, kind of a "kill me I've killed your brothers"bullseye.  Also I think that for former service members, those 4,6 or 20 years are the best years of thier lives they were young and full of pee and vinegar,  the same reason that folks wear lettermen jackets to HS football games, or folks put college stickers on their cars.  Also they don't have clubs for former IBM, or Post office employees do they?

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 10, 2013, 01:28:57 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on April 10, 2013, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: ColonelJack on April 10, 2013, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Not to nitpick or anything... ;)

MacArthur was still a four-star when he got the MoH in 1942.  He was promoted to General of the Army in 1944.

(And was twice considered for promotion to six-star General of the Armies ... but that's another story.)

Jack

He and his father, Arthur MacArthur, are the only father and son MoH recipients.  Together, they wore a combined 8 stars.

Except for Colonel Theodore Roosevelt of Rough Rider fame (awarded in the 1990s) and his son, BG Theodore Roosevelt Jr., who was awarded the MoH for his actions as the first general officer ashore on D-Day.

Theodore Roosevelt Jr, along with my grandfather was founding members of the American Legion in 1919. Very exceptional officer according to my grandfather.   :clap:

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 10, 2013, 02:52:15 PM
Most the Time the MoH is Posthumous. I do think, IMO, that Chesty Puller should have got a MoH, but he could not keep his mouth shut. Also, I beleive the MoH has to do with Popularity more than Heroism.

Maybe for the first or second one which were for his combat action. The 3rd, 4th and 5th were for leadership.

Quote from: jhsmith400 on April 10, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
Two things, one is if you ever want to know who was a clerk in the service (not that that is bad they are VITAL jobs), look for the guy wearing a Ranger, Green Beret, or Delta tee shirt.  Most special operators aren't (now more then ever,) too keen on advertising that fact, kind of a "kill me I've killed your brothers"bullseye.  Also I think that for former service members, those 4,6 or 20 years are the best years of thier lives they were young and full of pee and vinegar,  the same reason that folks wear lettermen jackets to HS football games, or folks put college stickers on their cars.  Also they don't have clubs for former IBM, or Post office employees do they?

+1

That is a very good observation. People with SAT CONG tattoos most likely were in-country. People with military t-shirts has been to a swap meet. 

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 10, 2013, 01:28:57 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on April 10, 2013, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: ColonelJack on April 10, 2013, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 10, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
GA MacArthur got his MOH upon arrival in Australia, after departing the Philippines in 1942.

Not to nitpick or anything... ;)

MacArthur was still a four-star when he got the MoH in 1942.  He was promoted to General of the Army in 1944.

(And was twice considered for promotion to six-star General of the Armies ... but that's another story.)

Jack

He and his father, Arthur MacArthur, are the only father and son MoH recipients.  Together, they wore a combined 8 stars.

Except for Colonel Theodore Roosevelt of Rough Rider fame (awarded in the 1990s) and his son, BG Theodore Roosevelt Jr., who was awarded the MoH for his actions as the first general officer ashore on D-Day.

Are you sure? I thought the first general ashore was Maj. Gen. Norman Cota -- who went into Omaha Beach one hour into the landing with the 29th Infantry Division; and is pretty famous for rallying the troops to get of the beach.

Quote from: Private Investigator on April 11, 2013, 08:13:43 AM

Quote from: jhsmith400 on April 10, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
Two things, one is if you ever want to know who was a clerk in the service (not that that is bad they are VITAL jobs), look for the guy wearing a Ranger, Green Beret, or Delta tee shirt.  Most special operators aren't (now more then ever,) too keen on advertising that fact, kind of a "kill me I've killed your brothers"bullseye.  Also I think that for former service members, those 4,6 or 20 years are the best years of thier lives they were young and full of pee and vinegar,  the same reason that folks wear lettermen jackets to HS football games, or folks put college stickers on their cars.  Also they don't have clubs for former IBM, or Post office employees do they?

+1

That is a very good observation. People with SAT CONG tattoos most likely were in-country. People with military t-shirts has been to a swap meet.

Except when you have a few unit specific morale ones like I do that only went to unit members. Its been two decades since Desert Storm and I'm finally wearing what were originally just supposed to be worn underneath BDUs.

Quote from: jhsmith400 on April 10, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
Two things, one is if you ever want to know who was a clerk in the service (not that that is bad they are VITAL jobs), look for the guy wearing a Ranger, Green Beret, or Delta tee shirt.  Most special operators aren't (now more then ever,) too keen on advertising that fact, kind of a "kill me I've killed your brothers"bullseye.  Also I think that for former service members, those 4,6 or 20 years are the best years of thier lives they were young and full of pee and vinegar,  the same reason that folks wear lettermen jackets to HS football games, or folks put college stickers on their cars.  Also they don't have clubs for former IBM, or Post office employees do they?

(http://site.tvstoreonline.com/albundy003new1.JPG)

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on April 10, 2013, 01:28:57 PM
Are you sure? I thought the first general ashore was Maj. Gen. Norman Cota -- who went into Omaha Beach one hour into the landing with the 29th Infantry Division; and is pretty famous for rallying the troops to get of the beach.

BG Roosevelt's MoH citation:

The President of the United States
in the name of The Congress
takes pleasure in presenting the

Medal of Honor

to

*ROOSEVELT, THEODORE, JR.

Rank and organization: brigadier general, U.S. Army. Place and date: Normandy invasion, 6 June 1944. Entered service at: Oyster Bay, N.Y. Birth: Oyster Bay, N.Y. G.O. No.: 77, 28 September 1944.

Citation:
For gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty on 6 June 1944, in France. After 2 verbal requests to accompany the leading assault elements in the Normandy invasion had been denied, Brig. Gen. Roosevelt's written request for this mission was approved and he landed with the first wave of the forces assaulting the enemy-held beaches. He repeatedly led groups from the beach, over the seawall and established them inland. His valor, courage, and presence in the very front of the attack and his complete unconcern at being under heavy fire inspired the troops to heights of enthusiasm and self-sacrifice. Although the enemy had the beach under constant direct fire, Brig. Gen. Roosevelt moved from one locality to another, rallying men around him, directed and personally led them against the enemy. Under his seasoned, precise, calm, and unfaltering leadership, assault troops reduced beach strong points and rapidly moved inland with minimum casualties. He thus contributed substantially to the successful establishment of the beachhead in France. [emphasis mine]


According to Wikipedia (hardly authoritative, but the only reference handy here in the office), MG Cota landed in the second wave at about H+1.

Quote from: jhsmith400 on April 10, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
Two things, one is if you ever want to know who was a clerk in the service (not that that is bad they are VITAL jobs), look for the guy wearing a Ranger, Green Beret, or Delta tee shirt.  Most special operators aren't (now more then ever,) too keen on advertising that fact, kind of a "kill me I've killed your brothers"bullseye.  Also I think that for former service members, those 4,6 or 20 years are the best years of thier lives they were young and full of pee and vinegar,  the same reason that folks wear lettermen jackets to HS football games, or folks put college stickers on their cars.  Also they don't have clubs for former IBM, or Post office employees do they?

http://www.postalemployeenetwork.com/retirement-info.html (http://www.postalemployeenetwork.com/retirement-info.html)

http://retiredpostal.com/ (http://retiredpostal.com/)

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/greateribm/register.shtml (http://www.ibm.com/ibm/greateribm/register.shtml)

http://www.ibmsfqccaa.org/ (http://www.ibmsfqccaa.org/)

So is it wrong to have my MOTO stickers on the back of my Truck?

I wear a small globe and anchor on my uniform at work.  Its actually a pretty good conversation starter.  But I wear it just so people know that Im even more awesome than they initially perceived.   ;D

I don't know, to each their own, I suppose.  I'm just more concerned about who I currently am than who I used to be.

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 11, 2013, 03:31:19 PM
I don't know, to each their own, I suppose.  I'm just more concerned about who I currently am than who I used to be.

Again, it's hard to describe, so I won't attempt to.  So yeah, to each their own.

And it's not as if we're concerned or dwell on it, it's just the memories are so fond, that they're hard to forget.  Most military experiences, especially in a "tough" career field or one that has you deployed, has a deep impact on your life.  What truly is amazing, is that we can all remember there were some crappy times.  You're lying if you say it was all roses.  But in time, you actually forget about the BS (picking up cigarettes, digging a hole so you can fill it up, or carrying a ruck for 20 miles just to be picked up and brought back to the barracks) and only remember the good parts.  The parts that involved hours of laughter over things that no one else understands; the different rites of passage that are unwritten but carried on for generations.  And of course, those moments where "it" snapped and finally understood something.

I love my military experiences because I shared them with a lot of good people, and some bad.  Many of my non-military experiences, as cool and memorable as they were, really don't define me.  Today I am a father and a husband more than any one thing.  I still wear a uniform today, but a "Defender" is not who I am.  I'm a 40 year old parent and spouse and my focus is my family.  But nothing beats having a drink with some old friends and talking about the time you buddy slipped and fell down the side of a cliff or you forgot to unlock the steering wheel as you drove off in the HMMWV.

Quote from: Bobble on April 08, 2013, 02:27:37 PM
I don't get how an individual who does this is allowed to remain in CAP (in the case of the phony 'Ranger').  It's not some sort of 'mistake', it's deliberately lying to mislead others, which is a violation of CAP's first Core Value, Integrity.  What exactly are we teaching Cadets and other Senior Members by doing so?  I really don't care how great a job they might have been (or are) doing in their assigned position within CAP.  Is CAP that worried about lawsuits, with an FOIA request for service records so easy to come by these days?  I even think that allowing someone who has done this to resign is ridiculous, CAPR 39-2 should revised so that a 2B would be automatic in these cases.  Make an example of these people, and let others know just how seriously CAP (as the Auxiliary of the USAF, for cripes sake!) views this issue.  But that's just me.  If it were really up to me, I'd be heating up the tar, collecting the feathers and looking for a suitable rail.

Thanks, I probably deserved that...

Quote from: Private Investigator on April 11, 2013, 08:08:53 AM

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 10, 2013, 02:52:15 PM
Most the Time the MoH is Posthumous. I do think, IMO, that Chesty Puller should have got a MoH, but he could not keep his mouth shut. Also, I beleive the MoH has to do with Popularity more than Heroism.

Maybe for the first or second one which were for his combat action. The 3rd, 4th and 5th were for leadership.

Up until 1918, it was the MOH or Nothing,  until WWII it was MOH, Service Cross, or Silver Star (Army). 

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 11, 2013, 03:31:19 PM
I don't know, to each their own, I suppose.  I'm just more concerned about who I currently am than who I used to be.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 11, 2013, 03:31:19 PM
I don't know, to each their own, I suppose.  I'm just more concerned about who I currently am than who I used to be.

But aren't we all who we were, and who we are currently? Does not the past shape your present and future?

/sarcasm

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 11, 2013, 03:02:20 PM
I wear a small globe and anchor on my uniform at work.  Its actually a pretty good conversation starter.  But I wear it just so people know that Im even more awesome than they initially perceived.   ;D

Me too. I actually wear my MCL pin on my pocket uniform pocket. My ticket book had a EGA sticker until I put an old trauma plate on it. I use my CAP tie pin in the rare times I wear a tie.

So my round red EGA Sticker, Corpsman Sticker, Iraq Veteran Sticker, Round VET sticker, and my PH License Plate is too Much?

I have an OEF plate and an American flag sticker on my back window.

(http://www.flhsmv.gov/specialtytags/milgraphics/operation_enduring_freedom.gif)

I thought about getting this, though...

(http://www.flhsmv.gov/specialtytags/milgraphics/us_paratrooper.gif)

But they're an extra $20 a year for some reason.

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 11, 2013, 05:43:37 PM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 11, 2013, 03:31:19 PM
I don't know, to each their own, I suppose.  I'm just more concerned about who I currently am than who I used to be.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think we are starting to confuse the discussion of impostors or people unable to let go of the past with solid successful people who credit their military service to being successful today.   In my case, I am still that Marine who walked out of the gates of Camp Lejuene for the last time 15 years ago.  And not because I couldnt move on with life.

I graduated High School on a Thursday evening, and Saturday morning I was at MCRD San Diego.  When I got out of the Marines, my very first job was driving armored cars.  I was on 5 weeks terminal leave and was really thinking about going back in because I wasnt sure what I was going to do.   I got that job one day standing in line in an AMPM store when an armored car courier came in.  He had a very small Globe and Anchor on his lapel.  I had on a "USMC" t-shirt.  We made eye contact and I said "Semper Fi"  He nodded and walked to the truck.  I didnt think anything of it.  He then immediately jumped back out after he had secured the cash and walked back in to the store and walked up to me in line.  He says "Hey Devil Dog.  You looking for a job by any chance?" I say, "As a matter of fact, Im on terminal leave right now looking for a job,"  He gives me his managers number and says "My shop only hires Marines.  Give the office a call."   
I call and set up an interview.   Needless to say, there were about 20 couriers in that office.  Everyone of them were former Marines.  Even the two chicks!!  AWESOME place to work.   While I was working there, two guys were hired on to the very large Sheriffs Office.  I say to myself..... "Hmmmmm.....maybe I should apply too."  So I did.

In my case, without my military background I may not have ever been hired as a cop.  My vet preference points were huge in a time where there were few agencies hiring, but thousands were applying.  I know that about 3000 people tested total.  After about 1 1/2yrs of a hiring process, 44 recruits started the academy.  Six months later, 21 of us stood on a stage having our badges pinned on.  Without the unique experiences of the military, I may not have passed FTO as a new cop.  I had two FTOs where were brutal on trainees.  As a 23yr old former Marine Infantry Sgt, and current Army Reserve Infantry Sgt at the time, neither one of those guys ever gave me any hassle as I watched them intimidate two other trainees into rolling up and resigning.  Neither one of the FTOs had ever been in the military and neither had the trainees.  So for whatever reason, they didnt feel the need to make the 23yr old, baby faced former Marine/Soldier prove himself by playing stupid games.   I talked to them about it a few years later.  They just laughed and said "What were we going to do to you?  Probably nothing you hadnt done before, so we thought lets focus on the other two rookies."

Without my time on a Marine Special Response Team and attending a couple higher end Marine CQB schools, I probably would not be alive today.  I got in a face to face gun fight about two weeks after getting off of FTO.  I was successful in that battle because of the firearms skill I had been taught as a Marine, not as a cop.  LE firearms training is generally pretty weak at the initial stages of a career. Without that, I wouldnt have beat out the 12 other guys who tested for the one SWAT position that came open.  Without being on SWAT I would not have meet a couple cops who encouraged me to go after LE aviation.   Without the military, I would not have had the GI Bill that helped pay for my dual CFI ratings.   Without that entire package, I do not believe I would be doing what I am today. 

So sure, there are people who do their time in the military, end their honorable service and have no real reason to ever think about the military or reflect on their service for anything other than memories.  Then there are others who served who now have lives that are direct continuations of their time in the military and have very real reasons, sometimes life or death reasons, to reflect on, talk about, and directly apply lessons and experiences learned from their military service. 

If you are one of those people whos service was honorable and you have moved on, you have earned that right just as myself and others have earned the right continue to still draw from our service and put stickers on everything we own >:D

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 11, 2013, 09:02:12 PM
If you arent one of those people whos service was honorable and you have moved on, you have earned that right just as myself and others have earned the right continue to still draw from my service.

It is ridiculous how you equate moving on with not being one whose service was honorable.  That shows a complete lack of understanding and intellect.   One can have served honorably and moved on as well.

Besides, no one said you can't draw from your service.  No one said that being prior military does not contribute to who you are.  All of ones experiences contribute to who they are.  What is being said by me and others is that it should not be the whole or main definition of who you are.  The exception might possibly be the person who joined right out of high school and just recently got out or the person whose military time was more than 50% of their life.  Then it might be understandable that it is a very large part of how you define yourself.  As time goes by however and one gains other experiences, their military time and its significance as a contribution to the whole man do diminish.  If not, you are not growing. 

Ill add another post instead of modifying the other one to add this:

My wife spent 6 yrs in the Army as an Intel Analyst.  After her time, she got out, spent about 12 yrs as a house wife and mother and is now a sign language interpreter.  She hardly even remembers that she was in the Army and never talks about it and aside from a single picture on the wall of her basic training grad photo, there is nothing in our house that even suggests she was ever in.  So I see the other side of it as well.  For some its just a season.  No problem.

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 11, 2013, 09:23:50 PM

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 11, 2013, 09:02:12 PM
If you arent one of those people whos service was honorable and you have moved on, you have earned that right just as myself and others have earned the right continue to still draw from my service.

It is ridiculous how you equate moving on with not being one whose service was honorable.  That shows a complete lack of understanding and intellect.   One can have served honorably and moved on as well.

Besides, no one said you can't draw from your service.  No one said that being prior military does not contribute to who you are.  All of ones experiences contribute to who they are.  What is being said by me and others is that it should not be the whole or main definition of who you are.  The exception might possibly be the person who joined right out of high school and just recently got out or the person whose military time was more than 50% of their life.  Then it might be understandable that it is a very large part of how you define yourself.  As time goes by however and one gains other experiences, their military time and its significance as a contribution to the whole man do diminish.  If not, you are not growing.

That was a typo..... I changed "arent" to "are" several minutes ago.  Sorry about the confusion.  If you read the sentence with "arent" it actually doesnt make much sense.  Crazy how a letter can change the entire context of a paragraph.

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 11, 2013, 09:27:29 PM

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on April 11, 2013, 09:23:50 PM

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 11, 2013, 09:02:12 PM
If you arent one of those people whos service was honorable and you have moved on, you have earned that right just as myself and others have earned the right continue to still draw from my service.

It is ridiculous how you equate moving on with not being one whose service was honorable.  That shows a complete lack of understanding and intellect.   One can have served honorably and moved on as well.

Besides, no one said you can't draw from your service.  No one said that being prior military does not contribute to who you are.  All of ones experiences contribute to who they are.  What is being said by me and others is that it should not be the whole or main definition of who you are.  The exception might possibly be the person who joined right out of high school and just recently got out or the person whose military time was more than 50% of their life.  Then it might be understandable that it is a very large part of how you define yourself.  As time goes by however and one gains other experiences, their military time and its significance as a contribution to the whole man do diminish.  If not, you are not growing.

That was a typo..... I changed "arent" to "are" several minutes ago.  Sorry about the confusion.  If you read the sentence with "arent" it actually doesnt make much sense.  Crazy how a letter can change the entire context of a paragraph.

Actually a typo is when you accidently hit the wrong key(s) not when you choose to use a word with an opposite or different meaning. I don't see how you could accidently type arent (aren't) instead of are.   

Dude... relax.  No conspiracy here.  I changed it at 0512.  You posted your response at 0523.  That would indicate I went back and changed it, probably while you were typing out your rebuttal.  As I said.... sorry for the confusion. Trying to call me out as a liar is uncalled for and unwarranted. 

I have AF  veteran  plates on  my dodge, an  Iraq campaign security forces veteran sticker on my Chevy and a honorable discharge vet on my motorcycle

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 11, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
Dude... relax.  No conspiracy here.  I changed it at 0512.  You posted your response at 0523.  That would indicate I went back and changed it, probably while you were typing out your rebuttal.  As I said.... sorry for the confusion. Trying to call me out as a liar is uncalled for and unwarranted.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.  I didn't know marines were so sensitive. 

I have on occasions typed the totally wrong word, or a similar word, for whatever reason, and had to go back and change it. Sometimes the hands just do things.  I've even "watched" myself do it. Sounds wonky. It is. The post changed whilst I was reading, when I went right back to see unread posts, it showed up again. With the changed word. It didn't make sense to me either, and I came to the conclusion that he mis-typed, and it confirmed it.

Quote from: J2H on April 11, 2013, 10:36:34 PM
I have AF  veteran  plates on  my dodge, an  Iraq campaign security forces veteran sticker on my Chevy and a honorable discharge vet on my motorcycle

Aside from the American Flag, I have an Air Force logo and Security Forces beret flash sticker on the tailgate of my Jeep. Funny, the conversations that the sticker causes. I even had a guy chase me down the Interstate once.

It's all about service pride. My military experience also led to my current state government job. I'm the token disabled veteran in the office -- which also means that I ran into a SF imposter with an altered DD Form 214 recently. He disappeared when the truth came out after his real discharge was received from St. Louis. That is why I still find the idea of an imposter sad and go out of my way to make people proud of what service they did.

This morning I assisted with a ceremony honoring a Korean veteran of the 1st CAV. The Army awarded him with five medals for his service in Korea that weren't on his original discharge. Funny, he didn't want to talk about Korea -- he worked on tanks and ordinance and served during five separate campaigns. It was all about what happened afterward, two different careers in manufacturing and AGWAY, and the life of public service (school board, town supervisor and missionary) and his rather large family. That was the focus of his life.

Current CENTCOM force protection guidance is remove all military associated symbols from your POVs and apparel there are terrorist groups operating in the vicinity of ( omitted in case somebody over reacts and goes public) but it is CONUS. It hurt to scrape some of the stuff off my cars . I am proud, with reason of what we accomplished in my 22 years in the Nav. The Army and USAF have gone over to a system of biometrics at the gate and done away with base decals.

If you run into a person in CAP claiming to have been an officer, the services all maintain  a register or "blue Book" Names and date of last promotion approval, lineal number Ditto the Congressional record cites names. I know the FLWG LO exposed a fake " USAFR Vietnam intel officer claiming a Bronze star" by the Blue book about 16 years ago and I believe he vets anybody who claims prior officer service as a matter of course. We haven't had any more problems here.

I can't help but think that I am totally defined by the Navy. I spent 49 of my 64 years in an active duty household, and the remaining 15 in a retired Navy household of one form or another. I have been in the military health care system my entire life. We shop at the commissary and exchange. We have no Navy stickers on cars, etc., but her vanity plates are Navy associated. My job as a civilian was directly related to, and dependent on, skills I learned in the Navy.

Quote from: FLWG Historian on April 12, 2013, 05:45:53 AM
Current CENTCOM force protection guidance is remove all military associated symbols from your POVs and apparel there are terrorist groups operating in the vicinity of ( omitted in case somebody over reacts and goes public) but it is CONUS. It hurt to scrape some of the stuff off my cars . I am proud, with reason of what we accomplished in my 22 years in the Nav. The Army and USAF have gone over to a system of biometrics at the gate and done away with base decals.

If you run into a person in CAP claiming to have been an officer, the services all maintain  a register or "blue Book" Names and date of last promotion approval, lineal number Ditto the Congressional record cites names. I know the FLWG LO exposed a fake " USAFR Vietnam intel officer claiming a Bronze star" by the Blue book about 16 years ago and I believe he vets anybody who claims prior officer service as a matter of course. We haven't had any more problems here.

Hmmm....I snapped this pic about a year ago in FL.  I wonder where he works?

And not all AF/Army bases are away from stickers.  Specifically, the AF left it up to base commanders.  My base is one that still has decals.

Many AF bases went to the DBIDS system (as did their JOINT bases if it is one of those types of deals), but not all.  I personally dislike DBIDS (hated the decals, but hate DBIDS more).

Now...there was this time when Orville and Wilber Wright, Gill Robb Wilson and I were flying patrol off the North Atlantic coast with the RAF...when out of nowhere came this Nazi Zero.  You couldn't miss it...Eddie Rickenbacker radioed its 3 o'clock position to us.   Armed only with my Red Ryder BB gun, I fired off several rounds and blew that enemy plane out of the skies -- thus saving the White Cliffs of Dover.  And that is why I am wear the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Croix De Guerre, and the National Commander's Commendation Medals.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/Snoopy_wwi_ace_lb.jpg)
At least, I can tell you. I have seen a dog house fly. The rest of this.. OTOH.. ;)

Quote from: Chappie on May 06, 2013, 08:08:40 PM
Now...there was this time when Orville and Wilber Wright, Gill Robb Wilson and I were flying patrol off the North Atlantic coast with the RAF...when out of nowhere came this Nazi Zero.  You couldn't miss it...Eddie Rickenbacker radioed its 3 o'clock position to us.   Armed only with my Red Ryder BB gun, I fired off several rounds and blew that enemy plane out of the skies -- thus saving the White Cliffs of Dover.  And that is why I am wear the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Croix De Guerre, and the National Commander's Commendation Medals.

Since you're a member of the clergy, we'll take your word for it.

Your Holiness

"There I was...
(check one or more)
[ ] 35,000 ft. Inverted.   With a sling load...."
[ ] Six Mig-21s diving out out of the sun and me with nothing but a handful of used grenade pins."

Quote from: MSG Mac on May 06, 2013, 08:41:06 PM

Quote from: Chappie on May 06, 2013, 08:08:40 PM
Now...there was this time when Orville and Wilber Wright, Gill Robb Wilson and I were flying patrol off the North Atlantic coast with the RAF...when out of nowhere came this Nazi Zero.  You couldn't miss it...Eddie Rickenbacker radioed its 3 o'clock position to us.   Armed only with my Red Ryder BB gun, I fired off several rounds and blew that enemy plane out of the skies -- thus saving the White Cliffs of Dover.  And that is why I am wear the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Croix De Guerre, and the National Commander's Commendation Medals.

Since you're a member of the clergy, we'll take your word for it.

Your Holiness

I will swear on a stack of Mad Magazines that this actually took place (Mad Magazine was staple reading in the days of my youth)  :o ;D

There I was - 30,000 feet, surrounded by helicopters...

There I was 10,000 feet over the Line of Death. One engine turning and one engine burning. The canopy was jammed and I was out of fuel. There was no where to go but down. There was a Fokker to the left of me, a Fokker to the right of me, a Fokker above me, and a Fokker behind me. And everyone of them was flying a Mig. I was out of fuel, out of ammo, out of sky, and out of options. WHAT WAS I TO DO????

Simple, ask the sergeant to turn off the simulator and go get a cup of coffee.

^

:clap: