2010 FLWG Winter Encampment

[vorter]

Are cadet support staff lists up yet? Can't find the lists on the flcadet website, none of your links work.

It would be appreciated if someone emailed me the staff list. 

[Spaceman3750]

Are cadet support staff lists up yet? Can't find the lists on the flcadet website, none of your links work.

It would be appreciated if someone emailed me the staff list. 

http://flwg.us/cp/EncampmentStaffCadet.aspx

They moved it again. Of course, you could have done the exact thing that I did, which was go to the encampment website and clicked "Assignments".

[vorter]

Are cadet support staff lists up yet? Can't find the lists on the flcadet website, none of your links work.

It would be appreciated if someone emailed me the staff list. 

http://flwg.us/cp/EncampmentStaffCadet.aspx

They moved it again. Of course, you could have done the exact thing that I did, which was go to the encampment website and clicked "Assignments".

Oh didn't see that, sorry.
I didn't get a spot

Oh well, I was probably going to have a family vacation then anyway.

[DBlair]

So, are any CAPTalk members attending?

[TCMajor]

Dan,

   I'll be there with my two sons both C/Amn.  I applied as a TAC Officer.  We are escaping New Hampshire for the week.

[Capt Ford]

So, are any CAPTalk members attending?

Yes Sir, finaly heared back from Capt. McElvaney, I got Administration Officer, see you there! 

[JoeTomasone]

Would like to, but don't think I will be able to.

[DakRadz]

I've heard tell that there are so few basics signed up (~80) that FLWG is planning to start cutting staff. Any truth to this?

[AirAux]

There are so few basics signed up because they decided to limit enrollment to cadets that had never been to an encampment.  I know one senior that won't be going because they didn't take her daughter as staff or tell her she could attend as a basic since she has been to an encampment.  I know of a family of three cadets and two had already attended encampments so the third one was going to have to attend alone.  The parents decided they would all do something else as a family.  One of our parents usually drives 4-5 of our cadets, but since her son had been to an encampment and couldn't enroll for this one, she won't be driving the other cadets.  I understand they are thinking about opening it up around Dec 1st for cadets that have already attended encampments, but it's too late, all of the people I know have now made other plans.  I personally think they messed up limiting the openings to first time cadets.  Oh well, not the first time FL. Wing has messed up..  IIRC, the last time they held winter encampment at Ft. Benning, they upset the base staff and got CAP thrown off base and we haven't been back yet.  Maybe not a good idea to put a Captain in charge of such an endeavor.  No insult to the Captain because I don't know him personally, but I think it was a poor decision and it might be based on inexperience.  JMHO. 

[DakRadz]

I was asking the "only a" Captain for his thoughts, nothing more. No one more.

Perhaps, since that outstanding "only a" Captain is right here on our wonderful CAP Talk, you could have sent him a PM when you began hearing about these sorts of things.

Way to bring a personal rant (and even a personal attack) into a simple question.

I will say this. I have a hard time believing Florida Wing held an encampment that was solely run by FLWG on Fort Benning, Georgia.

[HGjunkie]

Even if they open the applications up to the cadets who have already attended encampment, it still probably wouldn't fill up the 60~100 slots left. That sucks because if the encampment is under quota for basic cadets, then some staff may have to be cut. I would apply if they opened it up for cadets who have already gone but weren't chosen as staff, but only if the curriculum is somewhat different. If it's just repeating what you did the first time you went as a basic, it's not worth the time IMHO.

[AirAux]

DakRadz, Maybe you should have followed your own advice: "Perhaps, since that outstanding "only a" Captain is right here on our wonderful CAP Talk, you could have sent him a PM when you began hearing about these sorts of things."  After all, if you would have sent him an e-mail, you would not have given me a reason to respond. Et Tu..  I noted it was not personal against the Captain, merely, in my humble opinion, a poor decision and one that may not have been made by a more experienced officer.  That usually equates to higher rank.  And it is my understanding that the winter encampment I reffered to was set up and managed by officers from Florida and it did have a disasterous effect on our relationship with Ft. Benning.  I had several parents there on Sunday to enjoy the Graduation and we were told that there had been a problem, there would be no graduation and we were to collect our cadets and their gear and leave the base immediately.  We were told not to stop at the clothing sale store, the BX, or the Infantry museum..  One family had brought the grandparents up from Miami for the graduation and they were most upset.  Hopefully one learns from one's mistakes.  Florida Wing has a history of management mistakes, including the once removed Pineta.  And I feel that I can speak of Florida as I was a member of the Wing for a long time.  Perhaps the Captain didn't get the guidance or assistance that he should have from Wing??  I also know that his responses to one of my senior members and to one of my cadets were very curt and almost of a hostile nature.  It is what it is.  (Spellcheck did not want to work this morning, so please excuse any spelling errors)
PS, Considering that they are short 9 senior Tac Officers, 2 Health Officers and 1 Safety Officer, I doubt that they need to cut Staff.

[HGjunkie]

Tick......................

[AirAux]

Tick...............What?   Nobody can answer questions or post personal opinions of any kind of a controversial nature on here anymore?  Perhaps someone will learn from the wisdom of others.  The application process for the encampment was cumbersome to say the least and impossible for some members.  And the response was that if they couldn't figure it out perhaps they weren't qualified to attend..  One of my senior members tried to apply for Tac Officer twice and he still doesn't know if it went through or not.  Probably not since he didn't get picked, but they still need 8 Tacs.  I surmise there are some problems in the system and if they aren't discussed, how can anyone expect to improve??

[DakRadz]

PS, Considering that they are short 9 senior Tac Officers, 2 Health Officers and 1 Safety Officer, I doubt that they need to cut Staff.

Cadet staff. As in, Flight Commanders without Flights.

Tick......................

Tock.

I asked a simple question, and was going to bounce some info/ideas off of DBlair. Really just an exchange of information.
It's turning in to a personal rant. For example, the Ft. Benning. I get that it turned out badly, you said as much. Then you clarified that it really was FLWG. THEN, you went on a long rant about how horrible for you and those involved.
Improvement discussions are great. This doesn't feel like that to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'm going on vacation. All of you can stay here and argue all you want 

[a2capt]

The clock icon droppers just crack me up. Some of them are just as guilty of the things they are quick to drop the icon for.

As for an encampment process thats (perceived to be) exclusionary or selective, when there are people viewed from several angles and by others as qualified to the job, and they are being kicked to the curb in favor of asking for more.. that can only work for so long. After a while, people just say screw it. But as long as we enroll as many as we drop each year, as an organization then it can go on for quite a bit longer as the churn rate supports it.

When applications are submitted to a request for them, they should be acknowledged, and before calls for more of the same positions go out as an announcement, those who submitted should be appraised of their standing.  Time and time again with ES in CAWG, this happens. It's no different in handling. They ask for crews, for a special tasking, and keep posting to the email lists that we "still need.. " and many folks that I know have said "well, I replied, and never heard a word back..  they're still asking for people. I guess I'm not good enough for them" despite filling every prerequisite, usually both in [X] checkbox and past demonstrated performance. IE, it's just politics and exclusionary practices.

Yet those requesting will adamantly deny that. Walks like duck, quacks like a duck .. but it's a Secret Squirrel.


..and just because you may be done with it, does not mean the thread is done serving a purpose to others.

[DBlair]

I'll attempt to answer a few of the comments posts thus far...


I'm thinking the "Captain" he is referring to is the Encampment Commander, I'm just the Commandant of Cadets so I'm guessing I'm not the Captain he was speaking about.  ...If I am indeed the Captain you are referring to, then let me know and I'd be glad to discuss my experience and resume/CV, in CAP and otherwise.

Let me tell you a bit about the ENC/CC... he is active-duty USAF, a Unit/CC, Group/Cadet Programs Officer (as am I), is a former C/Lt Col (as are all of us on the command staff), has successfully run previous Encampments, is days away from promotion to Major, and was FLWG Cadet Programs Officer of the Year as a result of his extensive involvement in organizing the Cadet Program. He has as much experience as do many other ENC/CC. I wouldn't be so fast to automatically assume he is not capable.

While some of the details were decided prior to my coming aboard the command staff, from what I understand, many of the details were handed to him by Wing and the AF, including the max limit as this is what the AF stated was the max they could handle.

Initial information from units around the Wing was that many would be sending a large number of Cadets to Encampment, 10 or more Cadets from a single unit in several cases, and many from around the country were also expressing interest as well. As a result, the actual max limit was publicised in order to make clear that there were not an unlimited number of slots available and to facilitate as many Cadets who had not yet completed Encampment.

Yes, as seems to be widely known, there were a few cases of "If I don't get X position, I'm not attending and I'm taking ____ with me." There were others who tried to pull the same thing after staff positions had been decided (beyond deadline and selection) and while this may/may not be the case in those examples you mention (I'm not entirely knowledgeable on the details of those specific instances), members did try things like this and it wasn't always looked at in the best light.

As for Cadets attending Encampment as a second time... Unless there is an Advanced Training Flight program (not in the plans this year), I don't really see the point in going back a second time, if not on staff. Also, I see nothing wrong with putting first-time Cadets as a priority, considering they are most in need of attending Encampment.

As for Encampment locations, Summer tends to be held at Camp Blanding and Winter at Tyndall AFB. I wasn't involved with the Encampment held at Ft. Benning, so I can't really comment on what happened or didn't happen, but if I remember correctly, that was a SER Encampment, not a FLWG Encampment.

As for current applications, as I understand it, we have about 90 thus far. Last minute applications tend to be the norm as I believe last year we had quite a few come through towards the end. There are also a couple units who are registering/paying as a unit, and so this will likely add considerably to the number registered.

Some members seem to be holding off until Summer as a result of the misunderstanding by many, thinking that we will be in tents and that everyone is going to somehow freeze. The reality is that we will all be housed in K-Span buildings (search Google Images for photos) that will have A/C and heat, as needed, and will most likely be partitioned off into different areas for flights, etc. Likewise, the AF is providing cots, so the minunderstanding of sleeping outside on the ground is not true.

We are not cutting staff (actually, we are still looking for more TACs), and we are still expecting to max out in available slots for basics. Quite a few local members are dragging their feet and waiting until the last moment to apply, thinking they have all the time in the world, but I believe we will see number increase considerably.

It is important to note that many members from outside FLWG recognize and are jumping at the opportunity to attend Winter Encampment at a location near Panama City Beach, Florida, with palm trees, probably around 50-80 degree temps, and generally a great program being planned... it sure beats shoveling snow and freezing in other states.

Overall, it just seems like there is a variety of minunderstood chatter going on about this Winter Encampment. We have a great program planned, and I'm sure we will have plenty of Cadets attending.

If there are any specific questions or concerns, feel free to let me know and I'll do my best to answer. If I don't know the answer, I'll find out from the Encampment Commander and will report back.

[Tim Medeiros]

1)  The encampment at Ft Benning was an SER encampment, not FLWG, the member who caused the issue was not even a FLWG member.  If I recall, this was also the last SER encampment held.

2)  No matter how you phrase it, your comments about the ENC/CC were a personal attack on not only himself, but the FLWG CP staff and command structure who appointed him, not once, but now two years in a row.  He has a wealth of experience, not only in CAP but in the USAF as well.

I personally take issue with your comments that disparage ALL CAP Captains.  Last I knew, CAP grade was NOT indicative of experience for the most part.  There are many members who have decided NOT to promote for whatever reason.  Maybe their priority is flying cadets, or ensuring their members are outfitted in the best ways possible, to the point of sacrificing their own progression.

I ask you this, how is it that one gains experience?  I always thought it was by doing things and learning from them.

3) In regards to your feelings about restricting basic attendees to first time cadets, that is a priority set in CAPR 52-16 5-3.b.(1).  In my opinion, if a cadet wants to be a basic attendee multiple times, maybe they should have paid more attention the first time.  If they just wanted to attend again in any capacity, they should have heeded the deadline for staff applications.

Edit: DBlair beat me to most of my points, but I'll leave my post intact anyway.  Also, you can rest assured that your concerns have been brought to the FLWG Director of Cadet Programs.

[HGjunkie]

I remember sleeping in the K-spans last year, the heating unit in my tent broke and blew A/C on us all night... 

If they just wanted to attend again in any capacity, they should have heeded the deadline for staff applications

I know I applied.

[DBlair]

I remember sleeping in the K-spans last year, the heating unit in my tent broke and blew A/C on us all night... 

If they just wanted to attend again in any capacity, they should have heeded the deadline for staff applications

I know I applied.

a) I believe these K-Spans are of a different style- as I understand it, I believe these are much larger and solid rather than the smaller soft variety last year. I heard about some issues from last year and these are being addressed.

b) We had a huge number of Cadet Staff applicants from which to choose the staff. Many great Cadets were selected, and many other great Cadets were not. Without going into detail about your application, if you enjoyed Encampment and wish to go back as staff, don't give up, apply next time and perhaps you'll be selected. If you'd like further comments/suggestions privately, let me know.