When I started ES, I got one large pack for my 24 hour gear. I found it to be impractical. Now I am trying to figure out how to carry my gear. I have two ideas how. One, use a smaller pack with pouches attached to it, and two, to use a small pack and a vest (preferably with webbing). I would like to use MOLLE everything. Based on your ES/SAR experiences, what would be the best configuration?
Quote from: TexasCadet on July 13, 2013, 03:59:01 PMBased on your ES/SAR experiences, what would be the best configuration?
Not Molle.
"best" is a slippery term.
Here is what I look at.
Can you organize your stuff so that it is easy to get at those thing you need to get at?
Is the load evenly distributed?
Can you carry everything you need?
How easy is it to modify your load out? 24 hour gear for high summer is different than in the winter.
How easily can you modify your load out for 72 hours?
I would not spend a lot of money yet. I would check out what other people are carrying....try out different things before you commit big dollars.
Molle gear is good in that you can always reconfigure as you need.
My personal load out is a molle vest with nothing on the back. A Camel Back Mule to carry most of my 24 hour gear. If I got to hump a bigger pack I have an Alice large that I can put the mule on top and carry everything I need for a long stay in the woods.
^ This.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 13, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
^ This.
Is it not a sign of the apocalypse when you and I agree on something? :)
Just use a regular backpack until you get qualified and figure out what you like. Then go buy as much quality as you can afford in your selected setup.
Thanks, everybody. What are some good brands I can use? Stuff from popular companies, such as Blackhawk, are a bit pricey for me. I only need to complete 4 more tasks for GTM3, so I am not a complete newbie.
Quote from: TexasCadet on July 13, 2013, 07:17:54 PM
Thanks, everybody. What are some good brands I can use? Stuff from popular companies, such as Blackhawk, are a bit pricey for me. I only need to complete 4 more tasks for GTM3, so I am not a complete newbie.
Yeah.....well I'd wait until I was GTM1 and had a year or so under my belt before I went out and bought a full set up.
Use that year to look at other people's rigs and maybe try them out.
Quote from: lordmonar on July 13, 2013, 06:09:48 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 13, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
^ This.
Is it not a sign of the apocalypse when you and I agree on something? :)
Yes! Dogs and cats will soon cohabitate!
Quote from: Eclipse on July 13, 2013, 08:08:13 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on July 13, 2013, 06:09:48 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 13, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
^ This.
Is it not a sign of the apocalypse when you and I agree on something? :)
Yes! Dogs and cats will soon cohabitate!
Dogs and cats, living together...mass hysteria. Listen! Do you smell something?
Quote from: TexasCadet on July 13, 2013, 07:17:54 PM
Thanks, everybody. What are some good brands I can use? Stuff from popular companies, such as Blackhawk, are a bit pricey for me. I only need to complete 4 more tasks for GTM3, so I am not a complete newbie.
Look on eBay for the stuff you're interested in. You'd be surprised how much cheaper some stuff is.
I remember a time when cadets used pistol belts, Y-harnesses, M16 pouches, and canteens for their 24 hour kit, and liked it!
HA HA... just kidding, but not really. That and pickle suits.
But seriously. Don't go overboard. A backpack will do just fine. I use a chest rig I acquired from my military days and use that with a camel back and that works pretty good. My 72 is a kit bag I had. My son inherited all of the Blackhawk gear I never wore. Never wore it because I didn't like the feel, plus I thought it was too Gucci.
Wear what works for you. You are not missing anything by not having that "tacti-cool" Blackhawk gear. Like I said, we made due with pistol belts and canteens back in the day.
If I ever decide to nerd out however, this is what I will upgrade to... http://www.truenorthgear.com/catalog/products/packs/aero-vest-urban (http://www.truenorthgear.com/catalog/products/packs/aero-vest-urban)
Best of luck!
I've tried several different loadout variations, and I still haven't found what the perfect one for me. Luckily I have a patient wife!
The next exercise you attend where there are lots of ground pounders around, I would suggest asking if you could try on some of the various rigs people use on a break. You'll see as much variety of systems as there are people on a wing-level exercise. Packs & vests fit everyone differently. Ask those that have some wear on their boots why they like the system they use now. It's one thing to do this here on CT, but another to have that convo in person. You'll get a much better understanding.
+1
For starters....just use your school backpack....that is plenty big enough to hold all your 24 hour gear.
Get with other people in your local area who are also just starting out to help split the cost when trying to find all the components to your 24 hour gear. (100' of 550 cord is cheaper by the foot then a 10' hank from the surplus store, get 100 count bandaid box instead of a 10 count travel box, 100 count box of latex gloves instead of just 2, etc).
Don't buy a camelback....just buy 2 liters of water from the 7-11.
You don't have to go all Rambo right out of the gate. Take your time, find out what works for others, and build your rig as you go along. If you decide that GT is not for you, then you are not out a huge wad of cash.
Also....check with some old hands to see if they have old gear that they upgraded.
And finally.....there is nothing wrong with the old school LC-2 stuff......it is very cheap and while not as flexible as Molle, it is still good stuff.
There's some trial and error involved in finding the configuration that works best for you.
I wouldn't spend too much money, especially in the beginning. The reason being is that you need more experience to see what works and what doesn't. This experience is going to be unique to you and the type of missions you do. The last thing you want is to spend hundreds of dollars in gear, just to find out it's not what you wanted or needed. You also may want to see how active you'll be after qualification.
I've seen cadets spend a lot of money in GT gear that ends up collecting dust in a corner. If you continue to be active after GTM3 qualification and after you've had the chance of participating in a few more exercises and missions, then you'll be able to determine what you need and how much you'll be willing to spend for it.
And I also agree with lordmonar's advice... I know, shocking! ;D
After a recent price check on the older, but common LCE pieces, they are dirt cheap these days. If you are willing to spend a little more, you can still get milsurp MOLLE II. It's a ton more adaptable.
Also, if you take the shingle triple mag pouches, bandolier, etc out and resell them, you can make some of your money back.
Milsurp camelbak for a water source. They are cheap, replacement bladders are cheap, and you'll likely stay better hydrated. I have no idea what the color requirement is though. Field use might be whatever, but activities may dictate it be black or woodland CP.
It's usually a lot more convenient and comfortable to keep your pouch and gear off of your back for vehicle ops.
Best of luck.
What is LCE and MOLLE II? I've only heard of ALICE and MOLLE.
Quote from: TexasCadet on July 17, 2013, 04:24:25 PM
What is LCE and MOLLE II? I've only heard of ALICE and MOLLE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-1956_Load-Carrying_Equipment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-1956_Load-Carrying_Equipment)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernized_Load-Carrying_Equipment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernized_Load-Carrying_Equipment)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-purpose_Lightweight_Individual_Carrying_Equipment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-purpose_Lightweight_Individual_Carrying_Equipment)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOLLE_(military) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOLLE_(military))
http://loadbearingequipment.ciehub.info/MOLLE2.html (http://loadbearingequipment.ciehub.info/MOLLE2.html)
Thanks.
Bit late to the party, but MOLLE-II is garbage. Stay awaaay from MOLLE-II.
MOLLE equipment is excellent, and there are plenty of MOLLE packs out there that would be excellent for the more active team members out there. Blackhawk equipment really is no longer anywhere close to top-tier anymore either. :(
Quote from: DeSoto on August 18, 2013, 06:13:58 AM
Bit late to the party, but MOLLE-II is garbage. Stay awaaay from MOLLE-II.
MOLLE equipment is excellent, and there are plenty of MOLLE packs out there that would be excellent for the more active team members out there. Blackhawk equipment really is no longer anywhere close to top-tier anymore either. :(
And what real world experience do you have to judge what is garbage and what isn't?
Bit late to the game and I'm in the same boat...
Looking at a MOLLE II assault pack and a FLV.. I'm a bit new to the game but I'm getting the assault pack and FLV for free so... shrugs
Should be good enough though, right?
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 19, 2013, 04:08:08 AM
And what real world experience do you have to judge what is garbage and what isn't?
The fact that I've handled more snapped MOLLE-II pack frames than I'd care to count, and my primary method of making money over the last 4 years involves handling rather large amounts of tactical nylon.
MOLLE-II is made by the lowest bidder, generally with SDS designing the stuff, DOD handing out the contract to whoever saves them the money, and idiots or politicians making the decision on what gets put into the field (there's a really excellent example of this if you're interested). Then, the shoddy design is approved and contracted out, so companies like SDS's parent BaE Eclipse and Eagle Industries have to get contracted out to support production on a massive scale.
Just get an ALICE pack and upgrade some of the components with Tactical Tailor parts, like the Super Belt and Super Straps. It's superior to a lot of stuff that's general issue nowadays.
Quote from: SierraOneThree on August 19, 2013, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 19, 2013, 04:08:08 AM
And what real world experience do you have to judge what is garbage and what isn't?
The fact that I've handled more snapped MOLLE-II pack frames than I'd care to count, and my primary method of making money over the last 4 years involves handling rather large amounts of tactical nylon.
MOLLE-II is made by the lowest bidder, generally with SDS designing the stuff, DOD handing out the contract to whoever saves them the money, and idiots or politicians making the decision on what gets put into the field (there's a really excellent example of this if you're interested). Then, the shoddy design is approved and contracted out, so companies like SDS's parent BaE Eclipse and Eagle Industries have to get contracted out to support production on a massive scale.
Just get an ALICE pack and upgrade some of the components with Tactical Tailor parts, like the Super Belt and Super Straps. It's superior to a lot of stuff that's general issue nowadays.
Have you used the system at all? If not then handling something that was broken to begin with is different from actually using it. I have used this ruck and still have one and it has held up. I have used many different bags and kits over the years and in general the MOLLE II ruck and FLC will hold up to use and abuse.
I've used it plenty on several 24-36 hour operations, yes. It's weight distribution was average, but my main dislike is the shoddy plastic the frame is made of. I suppose my itch is the fact that my packs are generally used outside of CAP as well, and in the mountainous terrain as well. I know there are better packs out there, so those are what I opt for nowadays.
MOLLE II is garbage, eh? I can tell you I've handled and seriously abused those things more than you can probably image and never had one break (even underneath a 400-lb generator... PAX can be very dumb sometimes...) Will the plastic fail over time? Of course. Is it made by the lowest bidder? Probably. Is it going to last longer if you take care of it and assemble it correctly? You betcha. It's not the best thing out there, but it's certainly not garbage, and if you can find it cheaply on eBay, and it meets your needs, go for it. (Just don't pay $150-200 for the thing like some surplus stores want- that's a ripoff).
To answer the original question though- the best gear is going to be something that fits you and that you'll actually USE. If you don't go do day hikes (or longer) with your equipment, then why do you have it? If you never get outdoors in your area, then why do you do SAR? How can you expect to help others if you're a newbie to the outdoor environment yourself?
My advice is to get outside and hike. Even if it's just a few miles in the morning/evening when you can spare an hour. Use the gear you have. If you don't like it, go rent something you may like from your local outdoor store- you can do that cheaply and try out a bunch of different gear till you find something that works not only for what you need to carry, but for your body type and walking style as well. They'll probably even give you a discount on their rental fees if you tell them what you're doing.
To use a personal example- I just started learning how to dive. I'll probably spend my first few dives renting equipment from my local mom-and-pop dive shop, and trying different things to see what I like. I've already worked out a discount on not only the rental equipment, but on the purchase of my gear once I find out what I works for me. SAR gear works the same way.
My advice: use a comfortable pack with a padded hip belt, a sternum strap, and a rigid or semirigid frame (can be had at wal mart for about $30), along with a small vest for your compass, notepad, and other immediate-use items. I use something very similar to Tactical Tailor's Mini MAV, but I built it myself. For those who don't have $70-$80 to set up a PALS vest like that, I recommend some sort of pre-sewn chest harness. Just be sure that the vest straps are thin enough that they don't chafe under the packstraps.
I use a Kigali 30 (30 L) pack with a Conterra Tool chest radio harness for 24hr gear. And a Molle II external frame pack for 72hr gear.
I'd echo what others said- use the first year of your GTM qualification to find what works for you before you spend too much money.
Start with a basic backpack that you already have, bring along what GTM gear you already have, and a pen/paper with you. Do a few missions, and after each, write down what you used and what you wished you had. As you start to realize what YOU will need in a 24 hour pack (I guarantee you it will be different for each person) then you can think about what to put in it, as well as how to confgure it.
In your notepad make a note, just a little hash mark is all you need, each time you use something. For example, your compass may have been accessed 30 times, but your 550 cord was accessed only once. Now you can start thinking about placement (and I'd agree with others on MOLLE for ease of configuration) and put the stuff you need frequently closer to your hands, and the stuff rarely used in the bottom or back of the pouch.
I use a medium ALICE pack. Camelback (thermoback) and a MOLLE vest.