Where is 2010 Winter Board Meeting?

[PA Guy]

If I were no longer able to meet the height and weight, i would wear the Gray pants, white aviator shirt. But I would also try very hard   to get back to height and weight standards.

Brings me to a point I read on the agenda. the CAP-USAF CC alluded to the fact that he didn't care if CAP designed a AF style uniform. his main point was that members need to meet the H&W standards to wear any military style uniform. I concur. I am not saying we All have to be slim and Trim, I know plenty of high speed members that dont meet H&W but are excellent CAPers. Would never want to loose their knowledge and skill. And I think CAP makes provisions for them as well. There is a uniform for everybody.

But I also think that if CAP wants to make a distinctive "uniform" then do that and get rid of the grey slacks/white shirt combo. In otherwords, have one or the other, but we don't need both.

Easy to for you to say.  Why don't you wear the white/gray combo a few times at major activities, especially one's involving cadets, then come back and tell us how you felt. Until then you are talking about something you have no experience with.

Like the person above suggested, I have proposed that CAP should do away with uniforms for seniors for yrs.

[PHall]

Can't wear your ribbons on the blazer and your rank is only a tiny little thing on the nameplate..

So? and? So this about people wanting to show off their bling?

Well, that probably overstates it a little bit.  One could say it was unfair that people who had earned ribbons and rank could not display them because the only uniform option available to them for formal situations requiring a coat did not allow them to be displayed.

You want to show off your military bling?  Build a shadow box.

[billford1]

If I were no longer able to meet the height and weight, i would wear the Gray pants, white aviator shirt. But I would also try very hard   to get back to height and weight standards.

Brings me to a point I read on the agenda. the CAP-USAF CC alluded to the fact that he didn't care if CAP designed a AF style uniform. his main point was that members need to meet the H&W standards to wear any military style uniform. I concur. I am not saying we All have to be slim and Trim, I know plenty of high speed members that dont meet H&W but are excellent CAPers. Would never want to loose their knowledge and skill. And I think CAP makes provisions for them as well. There is a uniform for everybody.

But I also think that if CAP wants to make a distinctive "uniform" then do that and get rid of the grey slacks/white shirt combo. In otherwords, have one or the other, but we don't need both.

Easy to for you to say.  Why don't you wear the white/gray combo a few times at major activities, especially one's involving cadets, then come back and tell us how you felt. Until then you are talking about something you have no experience with.

Like the person above suggested, I have proposed that CAP should do away with uniforms for seniors for yrs.

I've done the gray & white rig for years and I just go with it. No problem if there are others wearing it too but no two are the same.  I agree though that at an activity where everyone else is in a different uniform different than yours well it is like so many have said up to now for how it looks. It does have an impact on how you feel if you're working with a group of Cadets from different squadrons although 99% of them will do things right by you in spite of the uniform. I don't understand all the angst with those who are so concerned about a military style uniform that was once worn by everyone. Tell me if I'm wrong about that. If there's any value to CAP anymore I would consider how the changing economy could make CAP vanish. If I were the AF person who has the most influence I would ask what it takes to keep whatever it is they want from CAP which ultimately involves senior members of all shapes and sizes. Uniforms really are a big deal and the AF folks over us should consider that maybe things used to be done better than they are now.

[flyguy06]

Yes, then why doesnt CAP try to design a uniformthat looks "similar" to the Air Force style uniform? But then the AF says you must stil meet H&W. I understand their logic. The public doesnt know CAP from the AF. (heck, they see a uniform they think everyone is in the army.)

[SarDragon]

Can't wear your ribbons on the blazer and your rank is only a tiny little thing on the nameplate..

So? and? So this about people wanting to show off their bling?

How many badges and ribbons are you allowed to wear on your service dress CAP uniform? How many of them do you actually wear? Are any of them from your time in the military?

Presuming the answer to each question is at least one, why can't I have a uniform where I can do the same thing? Currently I have no uniform equivalent to the service dress uniform. Tell me why I shouldn't be able to wear as much my CAP stuff as you wear.

[Spike]

And the divide between AF-Styly and Corporate crap uniform wearers is growing deeper and deeper. 

Honestly, the Blue Pants with white shirt and Army Officer Jacket or Army All Weather Jacket looks really good.   

[flyguy06]

Should we accomodate everybody? We have to have standards. I know we want to be "nice" to everyone but the truth is you cant please everybody.

I liked the CSU uniform. I wish we could keep it, but the USAF says no and we cant get pee'd off because of it. We just have to come up with something else.

[heliodoc]

DO NOT let CAP design it...  Let the AF design the new uniform according to EMS and Fire standards of polo type or field unforms. I am sure there some reasonableness to the AF and working a way to a new CAP uniform.  If it happens CAPers, then you will a whole new set of uniform issues to chirp about if PAPA AF says.... no more uniforms for you!

Let the AF TELL CAP what is up and if necessary, tell CAP they are on their own to find a vendor of unforms ands if th AF has the funds, then the AF funds it.

I can see the reasoning of the USAF.  CAP ought just accept the current AF funding matrix and gets its own uniform once-n- for all.  The USAF has other missions other than worrying about how CAP embarasses the AF on our wear.

I am all for a new change in CAP...COMPLETELY away from any military style  uniform...WEEE are the CIVIL Air Patrol, by the way.  If the AF says CAP ...go find your own..what is CAP going to do then??

[Gunner C]

Yeah, having the same uniform that I had in the back of an ambulance.  You bet.  I'm inspired already.

[heliodoc]

Did not CAP uniforms had to "inspire."

But if it does..what to we inspire future EM's soldiers, airman.

With the big three... AE, CP, and ES guess we'll have to figure out what to inspire and what suit to be in ...to inspire!!

[Nolan Teel]

I cannot for the life of me find the meeting agenda for the meeting coming up.  Cant find it on the CAP website... Help please!! Or am I just on the short bus today?

[AlphaSigOU]

I cannot for the life of me find the meeting agenda for the meeting coming up.  Cant find it on the CAP website... Help please!! Or am I just on the short bus today?

Here ya go, brah... http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9764.0;attach=4223

[Johnny Yuma]

1. After reading the agenda, there isn't one single sloitary item on here that requires, during a recession and a time that our budget's being cut, requires NHQ to send almost 200 people to the East coast when all this could be handled over a couple days on Microsoft Livemeeting and an online election tally application.

2. CAP membership to NHQ, copy to CAP-USAF: We're Effing sick of the uniform issues!  Yes, Fidel Pineda shoved the CSU uniform down the throats of both CAP-USAF and the membership but many did buy these and spent good money, again, during a recession, because we were told to wear these. Put together a committee, preferablly of real CAP members and not CAP,INC types, implement the suggested changes and LEAVE THE [darn] SUBJECT ALONE FOR A FEW YEARS!!!

3. Someone tell me why putting the radio card, 101, etc. on one document takes the approval of the NB? Just do it!!!

4. Maximum age for pilots in CAP? Great, another way to piss off members and watch them vote with their feet. You wanna check ride them more opften, I'm on board. Taking away the plane keys arbitrarily is going to have unintended consequences.

[Gunner C]

Thanks for the reasoned discussion.    I'm sure Hqs CAP-USAF can use your points.

[Spike]

^ His points are valid though.

Some things should not even be before the board.

[heliodoc]

^^^ Yep
There is apparently a large number things that have time wasted over, especially those PESKY CAP unforms.  Maybe the NB / NEC spend a little packing boxes for Haiti, huh?
With CAP's online prowess...how come this stuff is still done?  Spending money on travel and hotel whether or not it comes out if the members pockets.

Thought CAP was all up on that teleconferencing ideas...stewards of the money???

[Spike]

^ CAP needs to take ideas from other companies and start cuting costs.  It is a corporation after all.  However thier shareholders are the taxpayers, and they need to show they can trim down expenses.  This Board meeting (if held by AIG or Bank of America) would make front page news as a taxpayer waste.

[heliodoc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wholeheartedly agree

CAP and trimming expenses...there's an oxymoron

Again LEADERSHIP is that is needed and in most cases CAP may need PAPA AF to come down in them a little harder

BUUT there are those here, while wearing the AF uniform will squeal...we are a Corporation!!  We'll do what we want...after all,  WEE are CAP!!

[ZigZag911]

I am going to make two points I have made in other threads over the past couple of years:

1) the connection of contemporary CAP is tenuous at best; I've been a member since I was a cadet in the 70s, I truly cherish the historical heritage....but the plain, simple truth is that even WIWAC, CAP and USAF had been drifting in very different directions already for at least 20 years...I don't know where we belong, I was talking with a friend last evening (military retiree, 30 year plus senior NCO) who feels we ought to be federally chartered as an independent national non-profit -- like Scouting and the Red Cross.

I'm not proposing this, but I think we need to wake up and recognize facts; USAF is a very high tech, high performance, military branch of the US government.

CAP is mainly middle aged & older adults and teenagers interested in aviation and serving the nation and their local community.

CAP and USAF may share similar values but that is about all we share anymore.

We are a headache to them and they are an obstacle to us.

I'm not certain the core missions of the two organizations can possibly be integrated anymore.

2) Whatever one may think about #1, we need a common uniform in CAP -- or at most, two -- a dress uniform and a field/flying uniform.

One uniform for one CAP, available to all members, the only uniform for all members.

Yeah, I'm saying it -- let's scrap the USAF style uniforms to hold CAP together.

OK, folks, I'm ready: FLAME ON!

[Gunner C]

I agree - one uniform for dress; dump the AF uniform.  Get everyone in the same one.  No flame here.
(Deleted the CAP-USAF flames).