Where is 2010 Winter Board Meeting?

[Spike]

They considered the UMBlue patches on the pickle suit distinctive enough. 

I agree with everything you said except this.  The Ultramarine patches for name and branch were in fact Air Force.  We wore the exact same utility uniform as the Air Force until they switched from UM Blue tapes to green, then to the BDU flavor.

Somehow we got left behind with the ultramarine blue, most likely due to mismanagement at CAP NHQ (wanting to keep a profit rolling into the bookstore). 

[bosshawk]

Just a note of clarification.  Somebody suggested that CD may have been instituted because it was a "corporate" mission.  It isn't: it is an AF mission that we are charged with carrying out.  The AF also has a CD mission, we just don't hear much about it.  The AF, as well as all of the other services and the Coast Guard, are charged with assisting in the War Against Drugs.  If CAP participation in CD was totally eliminated, CAP would still have the "corporate" vs "AF" problem.

[flyguy06]

Astronauts wear the Dark Blue Flightsuit too. AND, golf shirts. I was watching the docking and link up between the space station and orbiter. Everybody has khaki pants, white socks, and buff colored golf shirts on.. with no shoes. It looked like cocktail hour at the club, if the club was in space.

NASA is not a military service and the Coast Guard is not a part of the DOD

[Eclipse]

Just a note of clarification.  Somebody suggested that CD may have been instituted because it was a "corporate" mission.  It isn't: it is an AF mission that we are charged with carrying out.  The AF also has a CD mission, we just don't hear much about it.  The AF, as well as all of the other services and the Coast Guard, are charged with assisting in the War Against Drugs.  If CAP participation in CD was totally eliminated, CAP would still have the "corporate" vs "AF" problem.

You're going to need to cite something on that.

The CD missions are one of the reasons constantly cited by NHQ for having to remove the "USAF Aux" from the tails,
and its a constant source of the Posse Comitatus discussions because its really an LE support function.

The "War on Drugs" is a now defunct term for a Clinton-Era White House policy of enforcement and prevention which included a lot of foreign aid and external military support.  I don't believe any military agencies are publicly charged with enforcement inside CONUS.

The Obama administration officially dropped the term and changed policy in early 2009.

[Flying Pig]

It funny being on the inside of this argument watching people talk like they have any idea about who and how the US fights drug trafficking.  Not everything is found on Wikipedia or in CAP's 2010 National Board video stream.  Im not talking about any crazy Clear and Present Danger nonsense, but I can assure you the US military is very much involved in the effort to fight illegal drugs.
Outside of CAP, what experience or knowledge do you have about how the War on Drugs is fought or who fights it or that because Obama changed the name meant it changed anything about how its dealt with.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

NASA is not a military service and the Coast Guard is not a part of the DOD

You are partially incorrect.

NASA is a civilian space agency, though many of its aircrew come from the U.S. and foreign (Colonel Chris Hadfield of Canada among them) militaries.

The USCG is not a permanent part of the DOD.  However, in time of war, and/or when the President directs, they are placed under the Department of the Navy.  They are at all times a military service of the United States and subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and we must salute their commissioned and warrant officers.  I think the main reason they do not come under DOD full-time is due to Posse Comitatus, which would affect their maritime law-enforcement role.

[PHall]

Just a note of clarification.  Somebody suggested that CD may have been instituted because it was a "corporate" mission.  It isn't: it is an AF mission that we are charged with carrying out.  The AF also has a CD mission, we just don't hear much about it.  The AF, as well as all of the other services and the Coast Guard, are charged with assisting in the War Against Drugs.  If CAP participation in CD was totally eliminated, CAP would still have the "corporate" vs "AF" problem.

You're going to need to cite something on that.

The CD missions are one of the reasons constantly cited by NHQ for having to remove the "USAF Aux" from the tails,
and its a constant source of the Posse Comitatus discussions because its really an LE support function.

The "War on Drugs" is a now defunct term for a Clinton-Era White House policy of enforcement and prevention which included a lot of foreign aid and external military support.  I don't believe any military agencies are publicly charged with enforcement inside CONUS.

The Obama administration officially dropped the term and changed policy in early 2009.

Bob, Bosshawk used to run the CAWG CD Program, he probably knows a lot more about this then you do.

[Spike]

It funny being on the inside of this argument watching people talk like they have any idea about who and how the US fights drug trafficking 
Outside of CAP, what experience or knowledge do you have about how the War on Drugs is fought or who fights it or that because Obama changed the name meant it changed anything about how its dealt with.

A great deal actually.  Am I currently involved.....no.  Was I......yes.  In a previous life I was a "book keeper" for the FED, and anyone who knows how the government is run will tell you, looking at ledgers and budget sheets, requisitions and GAO reports will give you a solid understanding of how well or how bad a program is going.

The Federal Program when I was involved was doing BAD.  Tax Dollars were not accounted for, Executive Service Officers were using cash for "pet" projects, and the bosses kept asking the Government for more money.

To be honest with you, at the local level when you "fight drugs" you are using federally appropriated dollars and at one time that info passed through the office I worked in. 

We as a Country are not in control of the illegal drug situation at all. 

[FW]

Well now; "News of the Force" has mentioned the agenda items and, attacked the NB members who authored some of them, as unsavory characters.  Oh, the joy of the internet.  I have responded to the article.  I hope Mr. Munger publishes my response.  I think this coming NB meeting is going to be the best one since 2000.  Can't wait for the entertainment to begin 

[Eclipse]

Just a note of clarification.  Somebody suggested that CD may have been instituted because it was a "corporate" mission.  It isn't: it is an AF mission that we are charged with carrying out.  The AF also has a CD mission, we just don't hear much about it.  The AF, as well as all of the other services and the Coast Guard, are charged with assisting in the War Against Drugs.  If CAP participation in CD was totally eliminated, CAP would still have the "corporate" vs "AF" problem.

You're going to need to cite something on that.

The CD missions are one of the reasons constantly cited by NHQ for having to remove the "USAF Aux" from the tails,
and its a constant source of the Posse Comitatus discussions because its really an LE support function.

The "War on Drugs" is a now defunct term for a Clinton-Era White House policy of enforcement and prevention which included a lot of foreign aid and external military support.  I don't believe any military agencies are publicly charged with enforcement inside CONUS.

The Obama administration officially dropped the term and changed policy in early 2009.

Bob, Bosshawk used to run the CAWG CD Program, he probably knows a lot more about this then you do.

Maybe - he PM'ed me with some nonsense about how he wasn't going to discuss the CD program with someone who was anonymous -
I'm a lot of things, but anonymous isn't one of them, indicated for starters by everyone's use of my first name on this board.

Regardless, we're not talking about OPSEC issues, we're talking about basic discussion points about where CAP is allowed to provide assistance, the constant tug-of-war about Posse-Com, and the fact that the "WoD" was never a "War", nor was it a program focused internally.

It is also no longer a White House program at all - much like the "GWOT", it's yesterday's news (the fact that the problem still exists notwithstanding).

[PHall]

Just a note of clarification.  Somebody suggested that CD may have been instituted because it was a "corporate" mission.  It isn't: it is an AF mission that we are charged with carrying out.  The AF also has a CD mission, we just don't hear much about it.  The AF, as well as all of the other services and the Coast Guard, are charged with assisting in the War Against Drugs.  If CAP participation in CD was totally eliminated, CAP would still have the "corporate" vs "AF" problem.

You're going to need to cite something on that.

The CD missions are one of the reasons constantly cited by NHQ for having to remove the "USAF Aux" from the tails,
and its a constant source of the Posse Comitatus discussions because its really an LE support function.

The "War on Drugs" is a now defunct term for a Clinton-Era White House policy of enforcement and prevention which included a lot of foreign aid and external military support.  I don't believe any military agencies are publicly charged with enforcement inside CONUS.

The Obama administration officially dropped the term and changed policy in early 2009.

Bob, Bosshawk used to run the CAWG CD Program, he probably knows a lot more about this then you do.

Maybe - he PM'ed me with some nonsense about how he wasn't going to discuss the CD program with someone who was anonymous -
I'm a lot of things, but anonymous isn't one of them, indicated for starters by everyone's use of my first name on this board.

Regardless, we're not talking about OPSEC issues, we're talking about basic discussion points about where CAP is allowed to provide assistance, the constant tug-of-war about Posse-Com, and the fact that the "WoD" was never a "War", nor was it a program focused internally.

It is also no longer a White House program at all - much like the "GWOT", it's yesterday's news (the fact that the problem still exists notwithstanding).

Bob, the "customers" of the CD program are the ones who have restricted the amount of infomation released.
Bosshawk is being very wise in not upsetting them.

[Eclipse]

Bob, the "customers" of the CD program are the ones who have restricted the amount of infomation released.
Bosshawk is being very wise in not upsetting them.

Yeah, ok.

[Spike]

I did CD three years ago.  I did it for two months, and got real tired of it.  Personally it is a waste of tax money.  Flying over National Parks for hours and hours and hours in the hope that we (the FED) would see something through the trees (meth lab) was boring as all heck. 

[RiverAux]

Just a note of clarification.  Somebody suggested that CD may have been instituted because it was a "corporate" mission.  It isn't: it is an AF mission that we are charged with carrying out.  The AF also has a CD mission, we just don't hear much about it.  The AF, as well as all of the other services and the Coast Guard, are charged with assisting in the War Against Drugs.  If CAP participation in CD was totally eliminated, CAP would still have the "corporate" vs "AF" problem.

You're going to need to cite something on that.

You don't think that CD is an AF mission?  You do know they revised the PC law back in the 80s to specifically allow the military to participate in CD work, which led to CAP participating in it, don't you?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

You don't think that CD is an AF mission?  You do know they revised the PC law back in the 80s to specifically allow the military to participate in CD work, which led to CAP participating in it, don't you?

That I didn't know.  When I got involved in CD about 10 years ago, at the training sessions the nonmilitary aspect was given pretty strong emphasis, along with the facts that we had no arrest/seizure, etc. powers.

As I understand it, the only Constitutional way the military can perform civilian law enforcement (which is what CD is, isn't it?) is under the following conditions:

The US Coast Guard (who can arrest you for OWI on the water, among other things)
The ARNG/ANG acting under state (gubernatorial) authority
State Guards ordered to do so by their Governor[/li][/list]

What changed?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I did CD three years ago.  I did it for two months, and got real tired of it.  Personally it is a waste of tax money.  Flying over National Parks for hours and hours and hours in the hope that we (the FED) would see something through the trees (meth lab) was boring as all heck.

Similar to my experience and opinion.  A National Guard Blackhawk is much better equipped than one of our birds, and, if they are shot at, they can shoot back...

[Gunner C]

You don't think that CD is an AF mission?  You do know they revised the PC law back in the 80s to specifically allow the military to participate in CD work, which led to CAP participating in it, don't you?

That I didn't know.  When I got involved in CD about 10 years ago, at the training sessions the nonmilitary aspect was given pretty strong emphasis, along with the facts that we had no arrest/seizure, etc. powers.

As I understand it, the only Constitutional way the military can perform civilian law enforcement (which is what CD is, isn't it?) is under the following conditions:

The US Coast Guard (who can arrest you for OWI on the water, among other things)
The ARNG/ANG acting under state (gubernatorial) authority
State Guards ordered to do so by their Governor[/li][/list]

What changed?

IIRC, it's not in the constitution, it's in the PC law passed by congress.  This was a law after the Civil War keeping the government from enforcing the law within the country except for  a narrow set of situations.  I think the framers of the constitution foresaw the need to use the army and the militia within the US borders as they were in the Revolution and 1812.  The congress saw that the military was rather heavy handed during reconstruction, so they decided not to let that happen again.

[Spike]

^ Or we are are a country where the military does not dictate laws to its citizens.  The military is under civilian controll, not the other way around.  You are correct about reconstruction etc.  However it takes some deep reading to see it was anti-Lincoln members of Congress that pushed for PC, after he allowed the military to conduct mas arrests of Americans on both sides of the war.

CAP is unique (now) that unless on a AFAM we are not a federal agency or department or acting as such.  We are just a corporation providing contracting services to local law enforcement.  It is that simple, no need to read into it any further than that.

[Gunner C]

Yep the Writ of Habeas Corpus was turned into "Habeas Grabus".  Lincoln suspended it and then the high jinks ensued.  We're best off keeping out of that sort of stuff - law enforcement.

[Flying Pig]

I did CD three years ago.  I did it for two months, and got real tired of it.  Personally it is a waste of tax money.  Flying over National Parks for hours and hours and hours in the hope that we (the FED) would see something through the trees (meth lab) was boring as all heck.

Similar to my experience and opinion.  A National Guard Blackhawk is much better equipped than one of our birds, and, if they are shot at, they can shoot back...

HAAAA....Sorry bud.  They dont shoot back.