Which College is better?

[CAPC/officer125]

I just went to an activity at Texas A&M and loved it. I also really want to go to the Air Force Academy. What I am asking is: can somebody give some comparison? Those of you that went the ROTC route (not necessarily TAMU) vs. those that went the Academy route. Which is better, or what are the benefits of each?

Thanks

[addo1]

I just went to an activity at Texas A&M and loved it. I also really want to go to the Air Force Academy. What I am asking is: can somebody give some comparison? Those of you that went the ROTC route (not necessarily TAMU) vs. those that went the Academy route. Which is better, or what are the benefits of each?

Thanks

I find this interesting that you mention this... This is the same situation that I am in...

[RADIOMAN015]

IF you are going to make the AF your career, graduating from the AF Academy is a very big plus, regardless of what major you take at the academy.

If you are looking for a highly technical education and are not really sure if you will stay in the AF for a full career, than go to the best engineering, science, computers, etc civilian school that has an ROTC program.

RM

[NC Hokie]

IF you are going to make the AF your career, graduating from the AF Academy is a very big plus, regardless of what major you take at the academy.

If you are looking for a highly technical education and are not really sure if you will stay in the AF for a full career, than go to the best engineering, science, computers, etc civilian school that has an ROTC program.

RM

Allow me to plug Virginia Tech as an outstanding option here.  It has everything RM listed above PLUS it has a 24-7 Corps of Cadets that provides an academy-like environment for aspiring officers.

[Flying Pig]

http://www.marines.mil/units/hqmc/tecom/soiwest/Pages/welcome.aspx

I got a full ride scholarship to the California Grunt University of San Diego where I majored in machinegunnery and physical education.

[AirAux]

There is very little comparison between civilian colleges and the military academies.  The leadership training and stress of the Academies turns out a much higher quality individual.  Top companies recruit Academy graduates when they get out of the military.  I know of a Captain that got out and went to work for a company making around $400,000.00 the first year.  And he wasn't a pilot..  This Captain said that due to his training he could do the work of 5 others because of his organizational skills that he learned at the Academy due to the 4 years of stress and training.   

[Fifinella]

I just went to an activity at Texas A&M and loved it. I also really want to go to the Air Force Academy. What I am asking is: can somebody give some comparison? Those of you that went the ROTC route (not necessarily TAMU) vs. those that went the Academy route. Which is better, or what are the benefits of each?

AF Academy: immersed in the environment 24/7; wear uniforms every day; will graduate knowing customs & courtesies, uniform wear, etc. instinctively; NETWORKING - you will know folks from 7 different classes, plus instructors; significantly more exposure to officers than in ROTC; chances to soar, parachute, join flight team, etc; very small class size (ave. 25-30 students per academic classroom); exceptional access to faculty & laboratories
BUT also - very restricted environment - very limited opportunities to leave campus first year; no civilian clothes most of first year; demands of mandatory athletics plus heavy academic (engineering) load plus military training - very difficult first year

ROTC: First, programs like Texas A&M and Va Tech are different from other ROTC programs, by virtue of their large, historically strong corps.
ROTC will offer more choices of academic majors (still constrained by "needs of the Air Force"); depending on the school, possibly stronger education in non-technical subjects (English, History, Foreign Languages, etc.); possibly broader (almost certainly less conservative) perspective on International Relations, Civil-Military Relations, etc.

If you haven't been there already, http://www.airforce.com/ has links for USAFA and ROTC.

You can get a great education through either.  A lot of that will depend on what you put into it.  Keep doing your research, and decide which feels like a better fit for you.  Good luck!

Maj. LaValley, CAP
USAFA '89

[mco]

IF you are going to make the AF your career, graduating from the AF Academy is a very big plus, regardless of what major you take at the academy.

If you are looking for a highly technical education and are not really sure if you will stay in the AF for a full career, than go to the best engineering, science, computers, etc civilian school that has an ROTC program.

RM

The air force is the only branch where the percentage of general officers from each commissioning source is the same as the percentage of Lt.'s commissioned from each commissioning source. The last 2 Chief of Staff's of the AF were ROTC grads, as was the last Air Force Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. The current AF Chief of Staff is an Academy grad. Go where you are going to enjoy your 4 years during some of the best years of your life. Only you know what you will enjoy. You all come out as 2Lt.'s with the same chance of making it.

[lordmonar]

Plus there is the prestige thing.....the Academy carries a lot of weight because everyone knows it is a tough school. 

In my experince as a 22 year enlisted guy there was very little difference between USAFA grads and ROTC grad as far as being ready to lead....i.e. they were all 2d Lts who need to learn the ropes.

So the question really is.....what do you want out of our college expernce?  What do you want to do in the USAF?  Are you planning a full career or just do a single term or just take it by ear as you go?  What do you plan to major in?

You have to ask these questions before you decide which route to go.  The USAFA brings a lot of non-tagible benifits with it if you want make the USAF a career.....but it a very tough school.

[Levi]

Consider your level of commitment and maturity. If you imagine yourself self-disciplined and compliant, and you are concerned about your future ability to provide a living for yourself and those you love, it is possible that you could be disappointed in a civilian education. In a few years, looking backwards, if you choose a civilian school, you may wish you opted for an academy. If you choose an academy, and you make it through, it is unlikely that you will, retrospectively, wish that you had selected a civilian undergraduate education.

[dogboy]

I agree with a previous poster that ordinary ROTC programs must be differentiated from those that have a Cadet Corps or a tradition of one, like TX A&M and VMI. Air Force ROTC requires pretty minimal involvement at an ordinary college. Most of the students aren't warrior types, they're engineers and scientists (at least those on scholarship).

As stated by others, an academy is the place to go if you're going to be a lifer. In addition, if you want to FLY, I am told that the dwindling number of slots for pilot training mostly go to ring-knockers.

Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would go to an academy. If you're smart enough to get into an academy, you'll get a free ride at a college that is probably intellectually superior.

Going to an academy means putting up with four years of moronic chicken-poop that has nothing to do with real military life. And it means missing what might be the happiest four years of your life at a civilian college.

I just went to an activity at Texas A&M and loved it. I also really want to go to the Air Force Academy. What I am asking is: can somebody give some comparison? Those of you that went the ROTC route (not necessarily TAMU) vs. those that went the Academy route. Which is better, or what are the benefits of each?

Thanks

[Short Field]

No civilian school scholarship will match what you get with an academy appointment.   There will be unique training opportunities provided for you as a cadet and after commissioning that no single college can match.   What other school pays you enough to attend that you can pay cash for a new Corvette when you graduate?

The service schools have progressed way beyond their original role of providing engineers and career officers for the military.  They are now considered a national asset for training future national leaders.    By the way, this was not my opinion but what was told to me by some very senior defense officials. 

[aveighter]

Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would go to an academy. If you're smart enough to get into an academy, you'll get a free ride at a college that is probably intellectually superior.

You must be one of those intellectually superior types.  Please, tell us more!

[Cecil DP]

Why limit yourself to only two schools? Make a list of Majors and minors you're interested in. Than check out which universities offer them and which is rated the best (There are several magazines which rate colleges by Major, there are also resources to see what the students think of the college. . Come up with your top picks and if possible visit them and talk to the students, faculty, and admission folks. 

[dogboy]

I'm afraid I don't know quite what you are asking. If you are asking what colleges provide a  superior education to the academies, the list is extensive.

For example in engineering (something one might expect the academies to be highly rated in):
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-engineering

The reality is that the academies are designed to produce military officers, which is something they do well. The quality of the education received however is below that which one would receive a top college.

Of course the education at the academies is still superior to that received at the typical college, which is dreadful.

Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would go to an academy. If you're smart enough to get into an academy, you'll get a free ride at a college that is probably intellectually superior.

You must be one of those intellectually superior types.  Please, tell us more!

[dogboy]

The service schools have progressed way beyond their original role of providing engineers and career officers for the military.  They are now considered a national asset for training future national leaders.    By the way, this was not my opinion but what was told to me by some very senior defense officials.

What a surprise that they would say such a thing since they envision themselves in those roles, no doubt.

[JROB]

Why limit yourself to only two schools? Make a list of Majors and minors you're interested in. Than check out which universities offer them and which is rated the best (There are several magazines which rate colleges by Major, there are also resources to see what the students think of the college. . Come up with your top picks and if possible visit them and talk to the students, faculty, and admission folks.

Exactly Visit the school find out all the information you can. and if you are interested in Military Schools you might want to look at :
Marion Military Institute- www.marionmilitary.edu
Virginia Military Institute-www.vmi.edu
Norwich University-www.norwich.edu

I personally will be attending Marion Military Institute in the fall I fell in love with the school when I visited and spent the night with the corps. I know a former CAP cadet who attends TAMU and loves being a member of their corps of cadets.

[Spike]

Wow.  Some replies here are really based in personal beliefs.  Making decisions that way is letting your ego run your life and you can not access the truth because of it. 

The truth is, both University and Academy Officers are OFFICERS in the end.  Both Officers need to attend Air Force technical training in their chosen career field. 

Academy Commissioned Officers leave the Service behind just like ROTC Commissioned Officers do.  Some from each group stay in the Service and make a career out of it. 

To say one source or institution is better at producing an Officer is not truth or fact.  It is pure EGO. 

I would also like to point out that the amount of Military specific instruction is the same in ROTC as at the Academy (oh no, he didn't say that did he??)  Take out the mandatory PT, you get the same introduction to leadership and aerospace studies.  Some may say "hey at the Academies cadets have to spend 3 or 4 weeks in "basic training" type atmospheres.  Well, that is equivalent to the ROTC "CAMPS".

As far as "soaring" or other "military clubs", ROTC has clubs as well.  However on a university campus like TAMU, you will find 20% more student clubs that also include skydiving and such.

Let's all be truthful here and state fact, not opinions.

Honestly, our military prides itself on being citizen-soldiers, airman, sailors and marines.  To be that "citizen-soldier/airman etc wouldn't going to a university equip you better for that?

We need Officers more than ever.  They are lowering standards right now as we speak.  Instead of deciding where to go, you first need to decide what type of education you want.  What happens if you are not able to receive a Commission, can you fall back on your education?  Second thing you should do is decide if you truly want to be a leader, accountable for your actions and the actions or inaction of those you lead.  Are you prepared to lead men and women in Combat, or are you even willing to learn to?  Are you ready or willing to be ready to be supportive of your Airman AND their FAMILIES??

You have some tough decisions to make.  Just because you want to be an Officer is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  You need to know the exact reasons, able to write them down, and live by them.  You need goals, and a Definite Major Purpose (Google that term!)

Being an Officer is both greatly rewarding and a great responsibility.  Too often, I hear "I want to be an Officer because of the respect Officers get".  Well, Officers only get respect if they are good leaders, want to be great leaders and have extraordinary leadership traits!!   

[Short Field]

I competed with Academy, ROTC, and OCS produced officers thoughout my career.  Academy grads as a group were always the best prepared academically in every class I attended reguardless of subject.  It didn't always mean they were the best in the class, but they were always the ones you had to beat to graduate first in your class.   Were they that much smarter?  Nope, although none of them were average.  It was the academic discipline and study habits they had instilled in them while cadets that made the difference.   

The "national asset" bit came from a discussion about a problem at the Academy they had never seen before:  pilot-qualified cadets turning down pilot slots in order to stay in a related academic duty assignment so they would not incur the extended time  commitment required by pilot training.  They were there to get the best education and intital work experience possible (new college graduates do not get the same level of training, responsibiity, and experience as junior military officers) before starting their civilian careers.    A degree from one of the service schools will open the door to the  graduate programs at any "elite" university.   

Spike has it right.  You need to decide what you want to be doing, then determine which school moves you closer  to your goal.

I started out enlisted.  I attended nine different colleges and universities by the time I completed my Master's degree.   There is a world of difference in schools.
   

[Gunner C]

As was stated above where you go to school depends on your career/educational goals.  The USAFA, in anybody's book, is a prestigious school.  But the AFA isn't the be-all, end-all if it doesn't have an academic program that interests you.

Make a decision matrix.  Put down the left side the things you'd like to study and the things you'd like to do in life.  Across the top list the schools you're interested in.  Then put a "1" in each line under the schools where the program/goal you desire is supported.  Add them up at the bottom and you may find one school scores higher than the others.  You also might find that they're all scoring pretty closely together.  If that happens, start flipping coins. 

[Flying Pig]

I have no experience with any of the academies or ROTC.  However, you need to decide what to do.  People throw "Leader" around pretty loosely.  However, the best LEADERS I have ever knows were Army and Marine 1Lt's and Captains that had been prior enlisted grunt types.

I would turn a solid Army or Marine Sgt. loose on any West Point or Naval Academy 2Lt.

If your looking for a technical field, sorry, cant offer any advice.

[flyerthom]

The first issue is what field interests you.
Then decide what school is best for you to accomplish that.
Remember - schools are trying to sell themselves to you.

I have a BA from a well ranked Jesuit university. It routinely scores very well in US News and World Reports. Decent Army ROTC program.

The degree that has the most positive influence on my life is the Associates Degree I took afterwords. While the BA was not worthless, it   certainly opened fewer doors than the AAS.

Also remember NCAA or other sports do not reflect on education value.
The AFA will never win a National Championship and Texas A&M will never win an IAC Collegiate Aerobatics championship IAC  but both have excellent programs. Do some research and make an informed decision. With choices you have available the world is your oyster.

[dogboy]

I would also like to point out that the amount of Military specific instruction is the same in ROTC as at the Academy

I'm sorry to disagree with you completely. There is AFROTC at my college. They have classes and drill one half day per week and maybe one Saturday a month. It simply is not comparable to the full-time military environment that one experiences at an academy.

My personal opinion is that this ROTC option is preferable. It approaches masochism to live academy life.

[Short Field]

So what does the amount of drill have to do with the amount of Military specific instruction?  Marching does not a Officer make...... 

[Spike]

I would also like to point out that the amount of Military specific instruction is the same in ROTC as at the Academy

I'm sorry to disagree with you completely. There is AFROTC at my college. They have classes and drill one half day per week and maybe one Saturday a month. It simply is not comparable to the full-time military environment that one experiences at an academy.

My personal opinion is that this ROTC option is preferable. It approaches masochism to live academy life.

Please read the paragraph you took that quote from completely.  Military instruction is a portion of Cadet Education at the Academies, not the entire curriculum.  Again, take out the morning PT, the formations etc.,  and you have the same curriculum.  Could you imagine if Officers did not learn the same pre-commissioning military education as each other?

[aveighter]

My personal opinion is that this ROTC option is preferable. It approaches masochism to live academy life.

Spoken from the viewpoint of one experienced in that disturbing lifestyle I suppose?