August 2008 Ex's OPEN COCKPIT

[heliodoc]

I agree with Mr Sayre

CAP folks could teach this BUT this where CAP needs a whole lotta learning.  The ICS system has been in place for quite awhile now.  Before one gets going and starts telling us EM types that CAP follows a military system and that ICS follows the military, yes to certain degrees that is correct.

I took I 300/ 400 series two years ago and it was taught by Type I and Type II FEDERALLY certified folks and while I imagine there are very few of these folks in CAP, that is the realm out there.  Until we can PROVE ourselves on things  other than SAREX's and CAP "stuff," we may not move forward.

I am not saying CAP isn't capable, it is a world that WE have to adjust and LEARN from others on their terms, their turf.  Incident command is a little more than handing out MRE's and filling sandbags, its a lifestyle different than CAP search missions and yet in some ways the same

SOOO learn from others and until we can PROVE ourselves to others and get out of our 64 yr old CAP, Inc, we can doeverything mindset, that is the way the Federal funding bounces.  Get to know others and their capabilities........ they MIGHT just then develop an interest in CAP and bring them on board

I will stick with what Mr Sayre because for 3 yrs I have lived it in a Midwest EM agency before I got to where I am today by reviewing grants and working with communities in the wildland fire world.......

[Ricochet13]

We do not need Wings putting on CAP ICS 300 & 400 classes as it defeats the whole purpose of ICS.  If people want to be IC's then they need to bite the bullet and attend the classes put on by their state EMA. 

And just why shouldn't CAP instructors be teaching 300/400 to classes that could include people from other agencies?  Isn't that actually better as it put the folks from the other agencies in a positon to see CAP as an organization made up of well-qualified folks capable of teaching them a thing or two?

No reason at all provided CAP instructors have completed the ICS300 (TTT) and ICS-400 (TTT).  I believe that's the initial source of credentialing authority for ICS-300/400.  

[heliodoc]

13 has it right also

FEDERAL TTT certification to teach this stuff.  Don't know how plainer it can get!!

Take the time to attend.  Get your State EMA types to sponsor you.  Its not going to come to you....YOU have to go to it

[RiverAux]

I guess I'm not understanding the apparent inferiority complex being demonstrated here.  When compared to just about any individual volunteer fire department or search team CAP regularly runs larger operations than they do and has been using ICS or an ICS-like system for much, much longer.  With proper certification, there is no reason CAP couldn't actually become the go-to organization in some states for these sorts of classes.  What better way to promote CAP than having CAP doing a significant amount of such instruction for all the local agencies?  Heck, that would be a great niche for CAP. 

Yes, being around other folks is great, but the impact of having them coming to us is much more than having a few random CAP folks in other classes scattered around the state. 

[heliodoc]

No inferiority complex here

Just stating the facts in TODAYS world

CAP MAY have been doing it for much much longer.  But again , CAP has to get Federal recognition in order to get it done.  I can't do alot of things wildland fire until I get that Federal wildland Red Card punched stating that I can do my job on an incident

So CAP, just because their feeling is, what we have done is equivalent.... just does not fly

Look at ESF #4  we are SUPPORT to that part of NIMS and the NRP

It is going to be awhile before CAP is the GO TO organization..   It may have to do with the Inc rather than a true guv agency BUT I have been WRONG before

What is wrong with being around others who actually do this 40+ hours a week, huh, Riveraux??

We may run SOME laeger operations but they may or may not be recognized as INCIDENTS or Incident sof National Significance as everything has beeb drummed up in the last 5-7 years

But to say CAP could handle it....Maybe  but let the incident be the driver... I would not want CAP ICing my fire unless they had the same background as I did and trained to that STANDARD!!!!!!!!!!!

[RiverAux]

again , CAP has to get Federal recognition in order to get it done. 

CAP doesn't need "recognition", the individual instructors do...and just why did you assume I was proposing the CAP members start willy nilly teaching courses without the proper credentials?

What is wrong with being around others who actually do this 40+ hours a week, huh, Riveraux??

Nothing, but there is no reason that it has to be on their turf...and we were actually talking more about this in context of other volunteers...

We may run SOME laeger operations but they may or may not be recognized as INCIDENTS or Incident sof National Significance as everything has beeb drummed up in the last 5-7 years

What does that have to do with anything.  The chief of Podunk Volunteer Fire Dept. won't be either, but he has to take the same courses even though he won't ever be put in charge of more than a dozen or more people, unlike many CAP ICs. 

I would not want CAP ICing my fire unless they had the same background as I did and trained to that STANDARD!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did anyone say anything about CAP running fires.  We're talking about the training, which is geared towards towards handling any incident.  A CAP member can be just as, if not more qualified, than many others who will eventually be teaching these courses. 

Keep in mind that this was brought up in the context of making sure CAP people are trained and after this initial burst of 300/400 courses they will not be anywhere near as easy to attend and getting CAP people qualified to teach them seems important to me.  And if we're teaching a class primarily for our folks it is to our advantage to bring in others.