Are the "Wing Mafias" dying?

[RiverAux]

It seems that in most states you will find that the Wing staff is made up primarily of members who live in the general vicinity of whereever Wing headquarters is found.  There are some variations on that theme, but it seems to be pretty common.  Even though the members of what are often known as the "Wing Mafia" change through the years, the leadership still tends to come from the same general area.  Obviously, not all the staff positions or Wing commanders come from this group as exceptions do happen.

Now, there can be some logical reasons for this trend, in that it just makes sense to draw your leaders from the geographic area where your HQ is.  The people that live the closest are going to be able to work at Wing HQ more often.  CAP members who live 6 hours away aren't going to do that drive very often.  Of course, we do have planes, but there are only so many ferry flights from the boonies to Wing HQ that wing is going to pay for each year. 

Now, CAP has been undergoing a frustatringly slow transformation to electronic records and doing a lot of work through email.  This makes it much easier for a Wing staff officer to effectively do the job from his home, no matter where it is, than at Wing headquarters. 

The question I'm asking is that if this Wing mafia system was how things were done in your state -- has it been breaking down to any extent in recent years?  Are more staff officers coming from the far reaches of the state? 

 

[mikeylikey]

PAWG is a huge "Mafia driven" Wing.  For the past 15-20 years Every Staff Officer at HQ, can be found living within a 1 hour drive of Philadelphia.  The two exceptions were the Director of Cadet Programs and the Logistics guy both who served those positions 15 years ago, and they were from around the Pittsburgh area.  The Wing Commander has always been a "Easterner" (from around Philly) for the past 50 years.  We did have one Wing King 15 years ago from Western Pennsylvania, but he did not last very long. 

It also seems that all of the training, classes, encampments, and EVERYTHING is centered around the Eastern Side of the state.  IT is actually getting tiresome to those that don't live out that way.  With rising fuel costs, I have begun finding activities in surrounding Wings for my SQD members to partake in.  I can no longer morally suggest to those members in the western side to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of travel to attend anything in PAWG.  Right now, I am getting Cadets keen to the notion that they should attend another Wings Encampment (because it is run better and costs 100 dollars less).

[RiverAux]

Most of us know that until recently Iowa had no actual Wing headquarters building or site.  If there are any Iowa Wing folks around, would you say that you still had a geographically-based wing mafia?  Or do you think that leadership actually moved around the state more since there wasn't a specific site that needed to be serviced?  Has it changed since you've gotten an actual wing hq? 

[fyrfitrmedic]

AA Milano was PAWG/CC twice and was most definitely from the western end of the state and had his own "western mafia"... before the Philly-area mafia took over.

[lordmonar]

That is the nature of the beast where we align wings around state borders instead of population centers.

Not much you can do with it.....except work with it.  Sure...as a wing commander I would pick staff officers who are more readily available to where ever I am at.  That only makes sense.

Will there be less of it as more technologically literate people start using all the distance management tools the net gives us?  I certainly hope so!

[SarDragon]

CAWG doesn't seem to have that problem. A quick review of the staff roster shows a pretty wide distribution throughout the state. I'd guess that about two-thirds live within 6 hours if HQ, and the other third lives farther away.

[nesagsar]

In Illinois we have a saying. "There is no such thing as Illinois, theres just this big section of land that likes to cling to Chicago".

[Maj Daniel Sauerwein]

Being from the lower portion of that big section of land clinging to Chicago, am I to assume you are from the Chicago area?  I will say this, the saying should actually be "There is no such thing as Illinois, there is Chicago and a big hunk of land forced to be attached to it"  .

[nesagsar]

That does sound better. And I am from Peoria, probably one of the best placed squadrons in the wing strategically due to centralized location but we have no ES pilots and no ground team.

[dwb]

It's changing in NYWG.  Two of the current "top three" in the Wing live in the greater Syracuse area.  After many, many years, the official Wing HQ finally moved out of the one-step-above-condemned building on Long Island.  There are also Wing "headquarters lite" facilities in other parts of the Wing, an addition that was long overdue.

We haven't had an upstate Commander since the early 90s, but at least the current Commander can find upstate NY on a map.  And his key staffers are spread throughout the Wing.  That's good enough for me.

More importantly, the attitude that accompanied the downstate-centric Wing HQ is slowly dying.  I didn't know what to expect when Col Andreu took over, but it's safe to say he's exceeded whatever expectations I could have had.  He's doing great things with very limited resources.

[SDF_Specialist]

Ohio Wing is almost like that. There are quite a few of the staff members who live within the Wing HQ area. But they do give the chance to others who may not live in the area if that member is proficient in the position they are applying for.

[ColonelJack]

During my time in CAP (1981-1996), there was a strong perception that there were two Georgia Wings -- Atlanta, and the rest of the state.

I think that perception has changed in recent years, though.

As far as the GAWG having its staff in the Atlanta area, that's obviously a good idea -- Wing HQ is at Dobbins ARB and Georgia is (geographically) the largest state east of the Mississippi.  It can be a long drive to Atlanta if you're down in the Valdosta area or on the southeast coast.

Jack

[mmouw]

None of this is true in South Dakota Wing. We are a smaller wing in membership but large in geographical area. Our Comm officer is from Wyoming and I myself the Cadet Programs Director and ES Officer live in northwest Iowa. This doesn't hinder our wings ability to act as a whole. This last weekend we had our Wing Conference and we had a remarkable turnout.

For training and Professional Development, we take turns each year rotating the events from east to west. We also hold SLS, CLC, and other courses on both sides through out the year hosted by squadrons. We don't have a group structure, but in someways do operate that way.

Our Wing Commanders are from through out the state. The most experienced or rather the best person for the job is what drives the selection. With the eforms and email, I think that it is making it possible to perform the job from a distance. It defiantly levels the playing field.

[Omar]

...

The question I'm asking is that if this Wing mafia system was how things were done in your state -- has it been breaking down to any extent in recent years?  Are more staff officers coming from the far reaches of the state? 

 

As a cadet in Tampa FL, we always grumbled that we always had to scrap for crumbs when it came to CAP activities and resources.  I'm not sure if that was true or not, but my scope was pretty short-sighted.  We wanted what we wanted.  Only now do I realize the immense opportunities we has being on a huge USAF F-16 base (MacDill), having a cadre of seniors hugely dedicated to the cadets, a very large Corps of Cadets (70+ active?), and even F-16 rides for Spaatz winners.  One month after my Earhart I turned 21 and joined the USAF (via AFROTC).

Since then, I have worked with, or been a member of the following wings: TX, NY, OK, SD, MS, TN, and now back to NY.  I cannot really comment on the fading of the 'wing mafias', since I have PCS'd so much, it's hard to watch one wing for a long enough time.  But, I do think that almost every wing is not immune to the rumors of a 'wing mafia'.  Whether it's true or not, is purely subjective.  No one will ever really know.

I would offer that, given your personal drive to excel, you can still contribute immensely to the overall security of our nation -- no matter the perceptions of unfairly distributed authority and resources.

Hang in there and don't take it personnaly if you feel you\your unit is not 'connected'.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.  Until you are selected for a position of responsibility to adjust or correct your perception and change those things, remember that you are the kind of person who volunteers to help others, and that's what gives your reward.

Omar

[flyerthom]

PAWG is a huge "Mafia driven" Wing.  For the past 15-20 years Every Staff Officer at HQ, can be found living within a 1 hour drive of Philadelphia.  The two exceptions were the Director of Cadet Programs and the Logistics guy both who served those positions 15 years ago, and they were from around the Pittsburgh area.  The Wing Commander has always been a "Easterner" (from around Philly) for the past 50 years.  We did have one Wing King 15 years ago from Western Pennsylvania, but he did not last very long. 

It also seems that all of the training, classes, encampments, and EVERYTHING is centered around the Eastern Side of the state.  IT is actually getting tiresome to those that don't live out that way.  With rising fuel costs, I have begun finding activities in surrounding Wings for my SQD members to partake in.  I can no longer morally suggest to those members in the western side to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of travel to attend anything in PAWG.  Right now, I am getting Cadets keen to the notion that they should attend another Wings Encampment (because it is run better and costs 100 dollars less).

And why no Squadron in Scranton?

[smj58501]

Looks like alot of this issue centers around Chicago and the east coast.... hmmm kinda like the real mafia.

"Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me. But until that day accept this justice as gift on my daughter's Spaatz Ceremony day"

"There are many things my Wing Commander taught me here in this room. He taught me: keep your friends close, but your staff closer."

"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in (to run the cadet program cause no one else will step up)"

[mikeylikey]

And why no Squadron in Scranton?

Just waiting for you to start one up!!   

[Larry Mangum]

Until I moved to California at the beginning of March, I spent the last 18 months serving as a Chief of Staff for Washington Wing.  Most of our staff was from within 50 miles of Wing HQ, but not because we limited it to people in the area. heck, I drove 85 miles one way to wing every week, same for the DO and the PO, but rather that a lot of our members either did not want to serve on wing staff or did not understand the need. 

Washington Wing, HQ is at McChord AFB, near Tacoma and there is something like 15 of the wings 26 units within a 125 mile radius.   We utilized  weekly phone conference calls, IM, and ftp sites and a wing email system all in an effort to recruit members away from the local area, in order to get a better distribution of personnel from throughout the wing and to enable people to be on staff without having to travel 125 miles or through Seattle traffic  to get to wing. Yet, we could not recruit enough people to fill all of the open positions at wing.

Not sure what the answer is, but I assure you most wing HQ's or more then willing to find ways to staff open positions utilizing technology.

[ZigZag911]

For decades NJ Wing was HQed @ Newark Airport, most wg CCs came from north end of state.

In early 70s wg relocated to McGuire AFB, in southern NJ (even though 'they' insist on calling it central!), most of command & staff (not all ) has been from that general vicinity ever since.

[SarDragon]

For decades NJ Wing was HQed @ Newark Airport, most wg CCs came from north end of state.

In early 70s wg relocated to McGuire AFB, in southern NJ (even though 'they' insist on calling it central!), most of command & staff (not all ) has been from that general vicinity ever since.

It is central. Dig out your Rand-McNally road atlas and open it to that fine double page map. Split it into thirds, and all three bases (Dix, McGuire, and Lakehurst) are distinctly in the middle third. Using the same methodology, San Francisco is smack in the center of the state, but everyone says it's in "northern" California.