Army giving TDY for encampment

[hatentx]

So my question is just that, is there any support for the Army letting me go, with out taking leave, to be a TAC at summer encampment.  I am in the Army and I am not seeing anything so far.  Thanks for the help.

[Ned]

There isn't anything official.  It's a matter between you and your commander.  As an encampment commander, I have had several guys on permissive tdy working at encampment.

But there is no reg that specifically authorizes it.

Ned Lee
Former Army Guy

[hatentx]

Ah permissive I didnt think of that hmmm..... So you just sent the request to your BN CO or who?  I guess I will run it up the COC and see where it gets shot down.

[RADIOMAN015]

So my question is just that, is there any support for the Army letting me go, with out taking leave, to be a TAC at summer encampment.  I am in the Army and I am not seeing anything so far.  Thanks for the help.

Looks like AR600-8-10, para 5-31 would apply.  Since it would be considered a "private" meeting, a O-6 or above would have to approve the request.   I would imagine you would need something in writing from the Encampment you are going to support and at the end of the encampment, I would think that your Army Commander would ask that a letter be sent detailing your activities.
RM 

[Spike]

Excuse me?  What about all those members that MUST take vacation time to attend CAP events like Encampment?  Why should an Army guy be any different.  I have to say, I see it happening if you are AF....maybe.  However, if you are getting paid to work Encampment, you are no longer a volunteer, but (get this) a Paid employee.  That is almost a slap in the face of a real volunteer who has to sacrifice personal time and vacation to do something they really believe in. 

Give up your leave days, you get 30 a year plus all those 4 day weekends. 

What job would you be doing at Encampment??  If you are are the part time "Night Duty Officer", I would deny your request the moment it went across my desk.  In fact, I would ask for daily updates and a report form the encampment Commander and Wing Commander on your performance at Encampment. 

[Fuzzy]

Excuse me?  What about all those members that MUST take vacation time to attend CAP events like Encampment?  Why should an Army guy be any different.  I have to say, I see it happening if you are AF....maybe.  However, if you are getting paid to work Encampment, you are no longer a volunteer, but (get this) a Paid employee.  That is almost a slap in the face of a real volunteer who has to sacrifice personal time and vacation to do something they really believe in. 

Give up your leave days, you get 30 a year plus all those 4 day weekends. 

What job would you be doing at Encampment??  If you are are the part time "Night Duty Officer", I would deny your request the moment it went across my desk.  In fact, I would ask for daily updates and a report form the encampment Commander and Wing Commander on your performance at Encampment. 

"I can't get it so nobody should!"

If his CO is cool and sees the value of a troop spending time helping cadets and doesn't have a problem writing the papers. Whats the problem? More power to the guy I say.

Way to be outraged over nothing.

In fact, I would ask for daily updates and a report form the encampment Commander and Wing Commander on your performance at Encampment.

No you wouldn't, because you said you would deny him outright.

[SarDragon]

FWIW, when I was in the Navy, on an Air Base in Japan, I asked for, and got, permissive TAD to participate in an encampment. I can't see what the big deal is.

[PHall]

Supporting CAP is listed in the AF Reg that deals with Permissive TDY.

And permissive TDY is not that big of deal Spike, you're not getting per diem, and if your absense is going to hurt your unit the Commander can always check the "disapprove" box on your request letter.

[Hawk200]

The Air Force leave instruction specifically mentions Civil Air Patrol as an allowable Permissive TDY. Did a couple of them that way. Did the same thing for a JROTC encampment one year when the CAP one was being held in another state.

Years before I went to any encampments in that wing, they had a state director that would write up airmen for Achievement medals. The practice had ceased by the time I was attending any, but it seemed pretty cool that someone would take the time to do it.

The Army doesn't seem to have any allowances for similar programs. Too bad, it would probably encourage more participation, and could provide some good PR for the other services.

[Eclipse]

Excuse me?  What about all those members that MUST take vacation time to attend CAP events like Encampment?  Why should an Army guy be any different.  I have to say, I see it happening if you are AF....maybe.  However, if you are getting paid to work Encampment, you are no longer a volunteer, but (get this) a Paid employee.  That is almost a slap in the face of a real volunteer who has to sacrifice personal time and vacation to do something they really believe in. 

There are plenty of people who get paid time off to volunteer for CAP activities. Whether it's overt corporate leave, comp-time, or "you're a goodfella, enjoy", not everyone is tied to a time clock.

If you can, do it.

Spike, "real volunteer", seriously?  My current consulting client only requires my teleprecense, so as long as I have a phone and internet,
I can do my "real" job.    I worked from the KY EOC during the Ice Quake and the last two weekends during lulls in the encampment. That
remote flexibility is what allows for my high level of CAP involvement.

I guess I'm not a "real" volunteer.

[A.Member]

You're seriously asking a question here about whether the Army will allow you to go to encampment?!   Seriously?!   

[Trung Si Ma]

I did several encampments and the NSC all on Permissive TDY.  At the time that I did it, my commanders already knew about my CAP activity and were not surprised by my request.  I did the request on the old DF form and mentioned that I would be providing leadership training for young people.  The only problem I ever had was we assumed DRF-1 on the last day of one of the NC encampments and I had to wear Jungle Cami's and boots that day while checking in every two hours.  Not hard to do from No-Hope Pope.

I've been retired almost 20 years now - the Army has changes a little since then.

[SaBeR33]

The Air Force leave instruction specifically mentions Civil Air Patrol as an allowable Permissive TDY. Did a couple of them that way. Did the same thing for a JROTC encampment one year when the CAP one was being held in another state.

It sure does and I used it on several occasions myself. According to AFI36-3003 Military Leave Program, Table 7, Rule 23 To attend Civil Air Patrol encampments, drill competitions, conferences and orientation courses as instructors, advisors, or liaisons unit commander may approve up to 10 days and Rule 24 To perform emergency duties as members of the Civil Air Patrol unit commander may approve up to 4 days.

The Army doesn't seem to have any allowances for similar programs. Too bad, it would probably encourage more participation, and could provide some good PR for the other services.

Not exactly true as the Army allows Soldiers to support the various Scouting programs, so CAP shouldn't necessarily be excluded.

Per AR-600-8-10 Leaves and Passes (http://www.nv.ngb.army.mil/hro/agr/ArmyLeave.pdf).
5-32 Permissive temporary duty authorization
k. To participate in scouting activities under the following conditions:
(1) Participation must support a federally chartered, national scouting organization.
(2) Absence must be relatively short, normally 14 days or less. The GCM authority is the approval authority for 11 through 30 days.
(3) The soldier must be an adult scout leader or supervisor on a continuing basis.


This rule could possibly be used to justify approval for granting PTDY to attend an encampment if you really want to try it.

5–33. Rules to use permissive temporary duty
a. A nonchargeable absence from duty may be granted at no expense to the Government to perform a semi-official activity that benefits the Service and the soldier.

[RiverAux]

I'd say that helping CAP is of just as much use to the Army as helping the scouts.  Might want to put getting some official sanction in Army (and other service regs) on the to do list for NHQ.  I wouldn't rank it as a high priority at all, but is probably worth some attention.  Of course this might be one of those things that could backfire once someone looks at it and the Army might say "why should we be helping the scouts in the first place" and strike that out.

[PHall]

I'd say that helping CAP is of just as much use to the Army as helping the scouts.  Might want to put getting some official sanction in Army (and other service regs) on the to do list for NHQ.  I wouldn't rank it as a high priority at all, but is probably worth some attention.  Of course this might be one of those things that could backfire once someone looks at it and the Army might say "why should we be helping the scouts in the first place" and strike that out.

No need to change the reg. The approving authority is the unit commander.
It's just a case of how well do you "sell" helping CAP to the commander.