Has anyone here recently taken a CDC or PME course? How difficult was the process of signing up? How difficult was working through the material for you?
I did NCOA a year or so ago, I'm enrolled in SNCOA now.
The signup process wasn't difficult, just took a while from when I clicked the button until I actually got enrolled, with a few steps in between.
The tests weren't what I was expecting based off of previous AF experience. Much more situational and scenario-based, and you have to have read the material to get the specific concepts they're looking for.
Quote from: Jester on December 02, 2019, 03:12:11 PM
I did NCOA a year or so ago, I'm enrolled in SNCOA now.
The signup process wasn't difficult, just took a while from when I clicked the button until I actually got enrolled, with a few steps in between.
The tests weren't what I was expecting based off of previous AF experience. Much more situational and scenario-based, and you have to have read the material to get the specific concepts they're looking for.
RTFM, what a novel concept!
Well, yeah, but the questions had a completely different structure from PDG and SKT (I haven't taken either in about a decade). I used to score very well on those with minimal studying just by looking at the question and answer structure.
Course 14 & 15 came around after I separated, which I think morphed into the distance learning version of NCOA/SNCOA. I definitely understand the high failure rates for guys coming in and expecting a variation of the PDG/PFE test.
The material and courses have gone through a major revamp and rewrite in the past 10 years.
As have most of the Distance Learning Courses.
I wish these courses were available to those without a degree.
Quote from: Fester on December 03, 2019, 06:42:18 AM
I wish these courses were available to those without a degree.
They used to be but the Air Force decided to have CAP members meet the same requirements as Air Force personnel.
The CDCs are available, and looking at the rules, I think TECHNICALLY ALS is open to all SMs as well, but I could be mistaken on that one.
Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 03, 2019, 06:03:16 PM
The CDCs are available, and looking at the rules, I think TECHNICALLY ALS is open to all SMs as well, but I could be mistaken on that one.
Airman Leadership School would be of little or no use to a CAP member.
The same can be said for AWC, ACSC, and SOS.
Quote from: PHall on December 03, 2019, 08:02:22 PM
Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 03, 2019, 06:03:16 PM
The CDCs are available, and looking at the rules, I think TECHNICALLY ALS is open to all SMs as well, but I could be mistaken on that one.
Airman Leadership School would be of little or no use to a CAP member.
Maybe the descriptions just aren't representative of the blocks, but these sections:
Quote
Professional Airman 30 Contact Hours
The Professional Airman curriculum is a combination of profession of arms and leadership lessons. The purpose of the Professional Airman curriculum is to facilitate the development of an ethical mind-set driven by the role of Air Force staff sergeants as military professionals in an expeditionary Air Force. Topics such as Airmanship, Customs & Courtesies, Ethical Leadership, and Emergent Leadership Issues are covered.
Supervisory Communicator 21 Contact Hours
The Supervisory Communicator curriculum focuses on providing students with the knowledge to be more effective communicators in supervisory writing and speaking situations. This volume covers topics such as Communicator Skills, Culture of Engagement, Supervisory Writing, and Interpersonal Communication.
Supervisor of Airmen 39 Contact Hours
The purpose of the Supervisor of Airmen curriculum is to provide skills necessary to fulfill supervisory and reporting official responsibilities and to prepare students for future responsibilities as NCOs. Specific attention is given to areas such as Standards and Discipline, Performance Evaluation, Team Leader, Diversity, Leader Influence, Introduction to Negotiating, Resources Stewardship and Continuous Improvement.
Seem like areas that CAP members can benefit from greatly!
Quote from: PHall on December 03, 2019, 08:02:22 PM
Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 03, 2019, 06:03:16 PM
The CDCs are available, and looking at the rules, I think TECHNICALLY ALS is open to all SMs as well, but I could be mistaken on that one.
Airman Leadership School would be of little or no use to a CAP member.
Could be valuable for the newly minted CAP NCO. Some of these "experienced" NCOs haven't been in a uniform in a while. Setting some required PME might be a good way to standardize and professionalize the process for them.
Standardize the what now?
And who are these "newly minted CAP NCOs" (which isn't a thing, BTW) communicating with? Each other?
Supervisor of Airmen? They have no one to "supervise".
Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2019, 08:25:45 PM
Standardize the what now?
And who are these "newly minted CAP NCOs (which isn't a thing, BTW) communicating with? Each other?
Supervisor of Airmen? They have no one to "supervise".
We have plenty of people to supervise at meetings, activities, missions...
^None in a role related to being an NCO.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2019, 08:05:44 PM
The same can be said for AWC, ACSC, and SOS.
They have great value. Ask anyone who has taken them. CAP members have jobs. Employers recognize the value of those schools and in turn increases the experience and abilities of the member. Having someone who understands concepts taught, and not just the nebulous "leadership" theory, but the operation and strategic planning skills add a lot of value to the organization.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
^None in a role related to being an NCO.
I argue that the NCO role is a better fit than the officer role for the majority of members in this paramilitary organization we inhabit, and that these leadership lessons can extend outside the military environment.
And yet after 20 years of rhetoric, there's still no NCO program in CAP.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
^None in a role related to being an NCO.
Wasn't that the whole point of hatching this caper? NCOs do NCO stuff. Zeros do zeros stuff. They have all those fancy patches and everything...
Quote from: THRAWN on December 03, 2019, 08:42:42 PM
Wasn't that the whole point of hatching this caper? NCOs do NCO stuff. Zeros do zeros stuff. They have all those fancy patches and everything...
I believe it was, but as argued here ad nauseam, CAP doesn't operate in any kind of fashion that resembles the military so you can't divide up our volunteer duties into "NCO stuff" and "Officer stuff". Typically, any solution developed that doesn't address any kind of actual problem is unlikely to succeed.
The Distance Learning NCOA and SNCOA aren't easy. A lot of Air National Guard TSgt's and MSgt's do not pass these tests on the first, second, or even the third try. Very few NCOs in the Air National Guard are afforded the opportunity to attend the in-residence PME courses, so they're stuck having to do the DL option. I have a First Sergeant who holds a Masters Degree, is a State Trooper, and top notch SNCO, but has yet to pass her SNCOA course and required a letter from the Commander to re-enroll.
My wife, now a SMSgt, NEVER fails tests, and had to take one of the SNCOA tests twice to pass. She is well educated and former teacher, and in my opinion, a professional test taker, and still didn't get it first try.
So, to those who enroll in NCOA and SNCOA, don't expect an easy ride.
Also, on the CAP NCO program. When the topic comes up I often hear "well, NCOs get stuff done, that's what we're good at." Hmmm, so I guess when a CAP officer gets things done, it's different? I have never been in a unit with a CAP NCO, and I've actually only seen fewer than 10 in person. I really don't have a clue as to how the people in that status offer anything different to the program. If you're, let's say, a SMSgt in the Air Force and a Lt Col in CAP, how is that person's contributions any different from if they were a SMSgt in CAP? Right.
As others have stated it's not hard to signup. Once approved it took a bit till I had access for Air Command and Staff College, but now that I'm in it's not too hard. The only hard part now (aside from version 6 in the sunset stages) is that to enroll I have to email their help desk which sometimes can take a bit to hear back on. But so far it's been an interesting program I'm looking forward to finishing it up by May or June.