Lifesaving Award Scenario

[Flying Pig]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I was a policeman for 25 years. Do I get a Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor and the Lifesaving Awards for the stuff I did on my day job? 

Oh BOY...... we discussed that several years ago.  The overwhelming CAPTalk position and the CAP position is that if you are getting paid to be brave it doesnt count.     If I did the same act off the clock I would qualify.  On the clock.... no qualify.   I guess people think that while you are pulling a guy out of a fully engulfed car fire by yourself, you are thinkin'  "Heck yeah baby.... Im getting PAID to do this!"  Contrary to popular urban legend, public safety employees are not required to put themselves in danger or risk their lives for anything, yet they still do.  Sorry if I crushed anyones romantic misconceptions.

My thought was that if your agency took the position that what you did earned a lifesaving or MoV then you should qualify to put in through CAP.  That would keep public safety employees/ CAP members from putting in for a medal every time they did CPR on someone.  CAP didnt think so.   So it came down to "Well, thats not fair because your job puts you in those situations."      (Yes.... that was an actual statement)

So my position changed to, "Well then if thats the justification then CAP Lifesaving and MoV's should only be awarded for acts while on a CAP mission." 

[Eclipse]

My thought was that if your agency took the position that what you did earned a lifesaving or MoV then you should qualify to put in through CAP. 

That's a reasonable position, but what's the point of every place you have an ID card handing you another decoration?  I'd hazard the one from the department has the most meaning and
just leave it at that.

So my position changed to, "Well then if thats the justification then CAP Lifesaving and MoV's should only be awarded for acts while on a CAP mission."

Where do I sign?

I'm strongly in favor of the only ting being worn on any CAP uniform, in any form, be CAP-related.  It's really the only thing relevent.

[lordmonar]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I was a policeman for 25 years. Do I get a Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor and the Lifesaving Awards for the stuff I did on my day job? 

No.....or yes....depends.....apples and oranges.

[lordmonar]

Training is not service, in the ARC, CAP, or anywhere else.  Training is preparation for service.

Disagree.....WAY WAY WAY DISAGREE!   

Training is part of service.  You can't serve if you don't train!

[Private Investigator]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I was a policeman for 25 years. Do I get a Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor and the Lifesaving Awards for the stuff I did on my day job? 

No.....or yes....depends.....apples and oranges.

I agree

[bflynn]

Training is not service, in the ARC, CAP, or anywhere else.  Training is preparation for service.

Disagree.....WAY WAY WAY DISAGREE!   

Training is part of service.  You can't serve if you don't train!

Interesting tangent thought - how much (ratio?  Hours?) does CAP spend training vs doing jobs for the community?  I don't know, what mission codes would fall to service, training and other (o-flights)?

[Storm Chaser]

Training is not service, in the ARC, CAP, or anywhere else.  Training is preparation for service.

Disagree.....WAY WAY WAY DISAGREE!   

Training is part of service.  You can't serve if you don't train!

If I take a CPR course with the Red Cross, I received training. I did NOT volunteer or perform any service with the Red Cross. At most, I prepared myself to provide a service in the future, which may or may not be with the Red Cross. There is no commitment of time beyond the training itself and no immediate benefit to my community at that specific time. Furthermore, a Red Cross instructor is not a volunteer coordinator. Hours spent are considered training hours NOT volunteer hours.

[lordmonar]

Training is not service, in the ARC, CAP, or anywhere else.  Training is preparation for service.

Disagree.....WAY WAY WAY DISAGREE!   

Training is part of service.  You can't serve if you don't train!

Interesting tangent thought - how much (ratio?  Hours?) does CAP spend training vs doing jobs for the community?  I don't know, what mission codes would fall to service, training and other (o-flights)?

Just in my own experience.......I am about 300 to one for training to operational hours.....a lot depends on OPS tempo and timing.

[Eclipse]

^ Yep.

This misconception about "training" being service is a big problem for CAP. 

We have far too many members who burn all sorts of time and gas on "training", and never show up for the real work.

[lordmonar]

Training is not service, in the ARC, CAP, or anywhere else.  Training is preparation for service.

Disagree.....WAY WAY WAY DISAGREE!   

Training is part of service.  You can't serve if you don't train!

If I take a CPR course with the Red Cross, I received training. I did NOT volunteer or perform any service with the Red Cross. At most, I prepared myself to provide a service in the future, which may or may not be with the Red Cross. There is no commitment of time beyond the training itself and no immediate benefit to my community at that specific time. Furthermore, a Red Cross instructor is not a volunteer coordinator. Hours spent are considered training hours NOT volunteer hours.

Depends on the training and what the intended use of it.
Need CPR for your job.....then no.   CPR as part of say a CERT certification.....then yes.   In that you intend to deploy or be ready to deploy if called by taking the training.

That is how I view CAP ES training time.   We volunteer our time to be ready to volunteer our service when called.

[Private Investigator]

^ Yep.

This misconception about "training" being service is a big problem for CAP. 

We have far too many members who burn all sorts of time and gas on "training", and never show up for the real work.

I concur. We have Squadrons with planes that do not want to fly them after dark, holidays or on work days.

For Katrina we was asked to make a list of people who can go down for a week (7 days) and we got three out of 600.   

[Devil Doc]

^ Yep.

This misconception about "training" being service is a big problem for CAP. 

We have far too many members who burn all sorts of time and gas on "training", and never show up for the real work.

I concur. We have Squadrons with planes that do not want to fly them after dark, holidays or on work days.

For Katrina we was asked to make a list of people who can go down for a week (7 days) and we got three out of 600.   

3 out of 600, is not that bad, but for a whole week? Maybe it you asked for 2-3 days you would have got more of a respsone. I cannot take a week to volunteer because of my employer, and because i have a Fresh Kid a the house ATM.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Illinois sent 14 for a week to Katrina.

[Eclipse]

Illinois sent 13 for a week to Katrina.

FTFY

[Майор Хаткевич]

Thought it was 14. My bad.

[Devil Doc]

Im Part of Team Rubicon, Red Cross and of Course CAP. Busy Busy Busy

[lordmonar]

^ Yep.

This misconception about "training" being service is a big problem for CAP. 

We have far too many members who burn all sorts of time and gas on "training", and never show up for the real work.

I concur. We have Squadrons with planes that do not want to fly them after dark, holidays or on work days.

For Katrina we was asked to make a list of people who can go down for a week (7 days) and we got three out of 600.   

Welcome to volunteerism.

I get 3 weeks of vacation a year.  Just three weeks.   I could take unpaid leave.....but I gots bills to pay.
So it is not uncommon for members to say the same thing.

[Storm Chaser]

Unless you're retired or unemployed, that's going to be the case for most of us. I get four weeks a year and will be taking two this summer to attend two back-to-back sessions at NESA. This is not something I would be able to do every time.

[Private Investigator]

3 out of 600, is not that bad, but for a whole week? Maybe it you asked for 2-3 days you would have got more of a respsone.

With two to three days, by the time you get everyone situated you are moving them out for the next relief. Because you are considering travel time in those two or three days? So when said and done you got a full 8 hour day on base staff or two or three sorties from a flight crew and it is time to send them home. 

[Devil Doc]

Travel shouldnt take more 8 hours from Illionis to New Jersey/New York area. More like 3 days then. 2 days of Volunteering, then travel day. I did not calculate Travel that much. So Friday night leave, Volunteer Sat and Sun, Drive Back Monday?