Lifesaving Award Scenario

[Eclipse]

....we want our members to donate their time to other community services......

Says who? (Yeah, I know, NHQ).  I'm definitely with FP here, but that's no secret.

This is another cast-off from CAP modeling the military.  CAP >IS< a community service, and as a commander, my first job is getting the membership to
spend more time and effort in CAP, not elsewhere.  We want and need them in uniform, performing our missions.  This is akin to Microsoft paying
people to work at Apple.  A member's currency is their time, and we need as much of it as we can get.

When you're in the military, its advantageous for all parties to encourage community outreach and service, for starters the first place they serve is usually
on-base or near base to their fellow servicemembers.  This is no different then a corporation encouraging local service - good PR, everyone benefits,
and it isn't a conflict of interest.

Just the opposite in CAP.  The CSR specifically calls out non-CAP service, so there's zero PR benefit, no benefit to the organization, and it competes for
CAP time.  Those 60 hours could be spent training, testing, and getting ready to perform the missions that are actually a part of CAP's mandate.

[Flying Pig]

CAP is a volunteer organization that encourages us to get out and volunteer more?  Didnt know that.

[a2capt]

...and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation.

[Eclipse]

...and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation.

In CAP.

[a2capt]

..and a CAP unit providing service, as a unit, to a community event, organization, etc. Sounds like "In CAP" to me.

But if our Award criteria also allows the member to choose other organizations to give service to, why do we penalize them?

I will say, at least at our unit, the ratio to unit organized projects that count towards this time, and members serving on their own is about 95% CAP. But if they help out at their church, why shouldn't they get it?

If someones willing to document it.

[Eclipse]

But if our Award criteria also allows the member to choose other organizations to give service to, why do we penalize them?

Who's being penalized?

There's a difference between "penalizing" members and the misguided idea that CAP's mandate is to
encourage members to spend time not in CAP.  It's not, and even if it was, we haven't had the manpower for that in 10 or 15 years.

[Devil Doc]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

[Eclipse]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I'd say "no", but it's your commander's call.

We have another (outdated) dec that is supposed to recognize relevent ARC training.

[lordmonar]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

Yes.

[lordmonar]

The CSR would make more sense if the criteria was community service linked to CAP service, i.e. CAP Squadron X volunteered as a unit to do Habitat for Humanity or to collect supplies for victims of a disaster or something like that. Unfortunately, that is the type of service that doesn't count for this award.

In principle, I wouldn't be opposed to the award as it stands as long as two conditions were met:

• CAPR 39-3 was more specific about the qualifying criteria, i.e. which type of community service counts towards the award.


• Service as part of membership in a different organization didn't count towards credit for this award.

I would agree with you there as well.
I would add a Community Service component to both Cadet and Senior Member progression.
I would also encourage squadrons to organize and participate as units in local community service not related to normal CAP activities.  AKA the Boy Scout Model.

[lordmonar]

...and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation.

In CAP.

Ah.......No.  But I agree that we should encourage our members to do more with CAP.....I wonder if we have a way of recognizing them for their service.....oh wait we do........let's give them decorations for doing their jobs and helping out with encampment, ES, AE.

Let's not be stingy with those decorations because "they are just doing their jobs" when so many of our member DON'T do anything beyond just showing up for meetings and responding to ES calls.

We have gone around and around on this subject before. 

[Storm Chaser]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I would say no; training and taking classes is not community service. Working for the community is.

[Devil Doc]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I would say no; training and taking classes is not community service. Working for the community is.

Understandable. I would think though that these classes to be on the Disaster Team are Required before you can be on the team. These classes total to 10 hours or more of your "Volunteer" time. So I guess best bet would be to ask my Commander

[Storm Chaser]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I would say no; training and taking classes is not community service. Working for the community is.

Understandable. I would think though that these classes to be on the Disaster Team are Required before you can be on the team. These classes total to 10 hours or more of your "Volunteer" time. So I guess best bet would be to ask my Commander

Because the regulation is so vague about what constitutes acceptable community service, your commander may or may not accept this. However, if we were to accept training as community service, then taking a first aid class would qualify as such. I still believe it doesn't (or at least it shouldn't).

[lordmonar]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I would say no; training and taking classes is not community service. Working for the community is.

Taking a Disaster Preparedness class is not community service?
Teaching a disaster preparedness class/CPR/First Aid class is not community service?

I have to disagree.

We need to make these thing easier to get....not harder.
As it is now.....it is such a PITA to get the blood CSR almost no one gets them.

Since anything that CAP organizes does not count.....in removes any incentive for squadrons.....as squadrons....to do any community service.
Since the squadron does not do it......and it is not required.....we are working against ourselves.

Service to Community, State and Nation.....yes that is our primarily focus.....and we as CAP provide a lot of the service through our CP, ES and AE program....and I agree that we as squadrons should keep that focus.

But there are so many other avenues of community service that we simply ignore.  Things that don't take a lot of time and man power.  that a squadron of 10 or 100 can do easily.

Adopting a section of highway, unit visits to old folk homes, planting flags at veteran cemeteries, assisting with marathons, and other public events.  Things we do anyway but because they are organized by the squadron don't count.

Bottom line......CAP as a whole in community service.......all us SM can use our CAP time to get the Presidential volunteer service award....but not our cadets.   They are the community that we are serving.  We want our cadets to go out and serve their community.   ES is one area they are actively serving their community.....but that does not count. 

By organizing it ourselves or by volunteering as a unit.....and by requiring some level of participation as part of our PD/CP programs.....we get the PR benefit of being seen as CAP doing service, we teach that community service has rewards and maybe instill a sense of community service in our members.

I know that it worked for me as a Boy Scout.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm a member of the Red Cross. Does training and taking classes with the red cross count as CS?

I would say no; training and taking classes is not community service. Working for the community is.

Taking a Disaster Preparedness class is not community service?
Teaching a disaster preparedness class/CPR/First Aid class is not community service?

In my opinion, teaching a disaster preparedness or first aid class could be considered community service; taking one would not.

[Eclipse]

...all us SM can use our CAP time to get the Presidential volunteer service award....

OK, now if you want to talk about a REAL waste of time and energy, that's the PVSA.

Nothing says "well done" like an award you earn by osmosis, self-certify, have to buy yourself.

[lordmonar]

...all us SM can use our CAP time to get the Presidential volunteer service award....

OK, now if you want to talk about a REAL waste of time and energy, that's the PVSA.

Nothing says "well done" like an award you earn by osmosis, self-certify, have to buy yourself.

Ah....but you have missed the real point.....

Yes...you can self-certify, and buy yourself.....but the point was for companies, and other organizations to do the certifying and buying to encourage their people to do good work.

They kept the costs very cheap for the simple reason.

The Military Outstanding Volunteer Service medal is the same thing.
It costs your squadron maybe a few hours to do the paperwork and run it over to the wing commander for approval and then they buy the medal from supply (maybe $20 for the whole presentation thing) and give it out at the monthly commander's call.

They promote volunteer service with minimum  effort and cost on their part.

[Eclipse]

Awards that everyone receives by simply showing up have zero value - it's the "participation trophy" mentality that
is so pervasive in team sports these days.

I never viewed it as something aimed towards companies, but OK, I suppose, at least it makes semi-sense in their context
since yo would not be self-certifying and someone else buys the pin.

But for an organization like CAP, it's meaningless.  >Every< member qualifies at the lowest level just by showing up
for weekly meetings, and anyone reasonably active will probably get silver lifetime.

I'd rather have a Venti.

[lordmonar]

Awards that everyone receives by simply showing up have zero value - it's the "participation trophy" mentality that
is so pervasive in team sports these days.

I never viewed it as something aimed towards companies, but OK, I suppose, at least it makes semi-sense in their context
since yo would not be self-certifying and someone else buys the pin.

But for an organization like CAP, it's meaningless.  >Every< member qualifies at the lowest level just by showing up
for weekly meetings, and anyone reasonably active will probably get silver lifetime.

I'd rather have a Venti.

Not "everyone" is receiving them....as not everyone is doing the job.

And while yes I think CAP does not need to get into the PVSM program.....we have our own......but it is a good thing to encourage MORE volunteer service outside of CAP......even if we don't require it.