Lifesaving Award Scenario

[Flying Pig]

Does CAP even do TRANSPORT missions anymore?

If I recall, MTPs did not do the organ transports.  I think you had to be Inst/Commercial rated and they were two pilot crews?  If my kid was laying on the table waiting for his new kidney, I wouldnt want a 250hr private pilot bringing his organ.  I dont know when the last time one was done for real.  Now-a-days, I believe and EMS operator would get that call in CA.

I'll take the 250 guys over no one.  The scenarios are generally in the Armageddon range / Katrina / Sandy, etc., where the whole system is stressed and moving the blood / medicine / organ, whatever
is just one more thing on the list that no one is left to do.  There are only so many assets to go around when things get legitimately dicey.

I think it was more of a best case scenario.  Not a go/no-go requirement.  Having been a former low time MTP private pilot myself, its scary what you DONT know about aviation at that point in your progression. 

[a2capt]

I wouldnt want a 250hr private pilot bringing his organ.

You wouldn't even know, at that stage of the involvement. That would be something that might come out later, when the kid wakes up, recovers, and is playing football, reminiscing on "those who helped him get here" and expressing a desire to meet them. Otherwise, it's all behind the scenes.

[Devil Doc]

Sign me up!!! I know if my kid needed blood or Organs, I wouldnt care how many hours the Pilot has, if he/she is the only one that can do it, ill roll that dice.

[a2capt]

Again, you wouldn't even know. "Hey, we can get this from Hoboken, but the only pilot is a guy that just got his license yesterday, do you want to do that?"

Doesn't work that way. That system is in place. If it comes down to me doing it as a CAP mission, I'm going to do it with the same professionalism I would give to the transporting an empty box during an evaluated exercise, or reverse the situation. The idea is to see if we can do it, to know that we can do it, and that we will do it, within our capacity the same way any other organization would.

[jeders]

Does CAP even do TRANSPORT missions anymore?

If I recall, MTPs did not do the organ transports.  I think you had to be Inst/Commercial rated and they were two pilot crews?  If my kid was laying on the table waiting for his new kidney, I wouldnt want a 250hr private pilot bringing his organ.  I dont know when the last time one was done for real.  Now-a-days, I believe and EMS operator would get that call in CA. 

If my kid was laying on a table, I would want that organ escorted by no less than a dozen armed guards traveling at .99C in an indestructible vehicle. However, in reality, as long as the organ/blood/etc. gets to my kid safely and in time, I don't care if it's done by the Marx Brothers.

[Flying Pig]

I wouldnt want a 250hr private pilot bringing his organ.

You wouldn't even know, at that stage of the involvement. That would be something that might come out later, when the kid wakes up, recovers, and is playing football, reminiscing on "those who helped him get here" and expressing a desire to meet them. Otherwise, it's all behind the scenes.

I dont think for a second that the patient would ever know or care as long as everything went well.  I think the point is being missed.  Let me re-phrase it.  I would certainly hope CAP would not entrust that scenario with a private pilot.  I dont care how many hours that PP has.  That pilot needs to be able to handle anything that comes his way during that flight.  Highest level of training possible, demonstrated instrument proficiency and competency.  I dont want my kidney being diverted because the pilot was scared off by VFR low visibility and decided to land at an alternate 35 miles away.  Again, I dont recall if there were any standards beyond MTP for that mission so its probably a go-nowhere discussion anyway. 

[Storm Chaser]

Might be able to count the time towards the community service award.

Donating blood is commendable and should be encouraged, but how is that considered community service? There is no work involved and the time spent donating blood is minimum. Other than the fact that the criteria for the Community Service ribbon is so vague (beyond the required 60 hours), I just don't see how donating blood would qualify as community service.

And to the OP, it's obvious from reading the reg that the criteria for the Lifesaving Award refers to transporting blood or life organs, not donating them.

[RiverAux]

I'd say that giving a pint of your blood is a more significant benefit to the community as a whole than probably a lot of things done for that particular award.  I'd rather someone gave blood than spent two hours picking up trash along the side of the road. 

[Storm Chaser]

I'd say that giving a pint of your blood is a more significant benefit to the community as a whole than probably a lot of things done for that particular award.  I'd rather someone gave blood than spent two hours picking up trash along the side of the road.

The question is not whether giving blood "is a more significant benefit to the community", but whether it could be considered community service in the strictest sense of the word.

i.  Community Service Ribbon.  Awarded to members who complete 60 hours of community service outside of Civil Air Patrol. The service must be verified by a volunteer coordinator. Community service projects conducted by CAP units do not qualify for this recognition. A bronze clasp may be added for each additional 60 hours of community service.

I've been involved with several volunteer organizations and have performed many different types of community service. I've also donated blood and can tell you that both of these are two different things.

[Eclipse]

Just for argument's sake.

You have to be 17 in most states to donate (16 in a few).

It only takes about 10-15 minutes total to donate blood, so at that rate, you'd have to give about 240 pints in order to be eligible for a CSR.  That's about 40 years.
They can tape the CSR to your CAP retirement plaque.

If a given commander were generous enough to grant 1 hour of CSR time for each pint, and the member gave blood at the maximum rate allowed, it would still be roughly 10 years to make the 60 (depending on the blood service's policies).

Most commanders with common sense would thank the member, tell them to enjoy their coffee mugs and free ice cream, but they aren't getting a CSR.

[RiverAux]

Why have two people now gone to the idea that it isn't worth doing if you can't get the CSR based only on that single activity? 

So what if they do 59 hours of trash pick up and 1 hour of donating blood. 

[SarDragon]

Might be able to count the time towards the community service award.

How do you count the time?

Time to fill the bag? Time at the facility? Home-home? With a max of six donations per year (whole blood), it would take me, respectively, 120 years, 10 years, and 5 years, to accumulate the 60 hours needed for the award, based solely on blood donation.

Its not like all the CSA time has to come from the same activity.  So, a few hours a year giving blood could be put in the mix of other activities.

You didn't answer the basic question - How do you count the time?

Until you determine that, the rest is irrelevant.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Why not the actual time of laying down to give the most blood? I think that Eclipse summed it up, at 25 minutes the most a donor can give at one time. What is the interval? Two weeks? One month?

Assuming it is every month, the person will accumulate one hour giving blood every four months. Is that reasonable?

Flyer

[Eclipse]

Why not the actual time of laying down to give the most blood? I think that Eclipse summed it up, at 25 minutes the most a donor can give at one time. What is the interval? Two weeks? One month?

56-60 days depending on the blood service.

[Storm Chaser]

Why not the actual time of laying down to give the most blood? ... Is that reasonable?

According to CAPR 39-3, the time has to be verified by a volunteer coordinator. And since "laying down" to donate blood is not considered volunteer work...

[SarDragon]

You can do whole blood once every eight weeks. Red cell donations are limited to once every sixteen weeks, but count as a double donation. That means you can donate six times a year (6 x 8 weeks = 48 weeks). Plasma donations are more frequent, but the requirements are more stringent, so it's not for everyone.

As for time on the table, it takes me 5 minutes to fill the bag (500 ml), but I bleed fast. Ten minutes is probably closer to average. It takes about as long to to the paperwork and prep as you spend on the table. Add 15 minutes in the wait area before you can leave.

I just don't see it as a viable way to add hours for a CSM. As I stated above, even using door-door numbers you can only get 10 or 12 hours a year. Hardly worth the tracking effort.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I agree with those stating it is not worth. Then verifying? Let's suppose you donate blood on days abc with company 1. Donate blood on days efg with company 2. Etc. If you do not donate all the blood with the same blood bank, you would end having to call a ream of companies to verify all those 60 hours...

When it is much easier to go to the corner church to staff a soup line for several hours several days, then go to the public library to volunteer some time at one of their after-school programs. And there are hundreds more such programs...

Well, most of you do know that.  :angel:

Flyer

[Flying Pig]

The CSR ribbon is lame to begin with.  If I was going to trim out CAP fluff, the CSR would be #1. Lets not make it worse by suggesting one be awarded for donating blood. 

[lordmonar]

The CSR ribbon is lame to begin with.  If I was going to trim out CAP fluff, the CSR would be #1. Lets not make it worse by suggesting one be awarded for donating blood.

Got to disagree here...The CSR ribbon is one of the smartest thing CAP had done......we want our members to donate their time to other community services......so we reward them with a ribbon.  Simple, straight forward, 98% black and white......one of the few CAP things that are that way.

[Storm Chaser]

The CSR would make more sense if the criteria was community service linked to CAP service, i.e. CAP Squadron X volunteered as a unit to do Habitat for Humanity or to collect supplies for victims of a disaster or something like that. Unfortunately, that is the type of service that doesn't count for this award.

In principle, I wouldn't be opposed to the award as it stands as long as two conditions were met:

• CAPR 39-3 was more specific about the qualifying criteria, i.e. which type of community service counts towards the award.


• Service as part of membership in a different organization didn't count towards credit for this award.