Billford's Uniform Picks

[Pylon]

My unit CC at that time ('93) said there was speculation that, instead of the silver sleeve braid, CAP would get light blue, but obviously nothing came of it.

That rumor probably came out of the not-terribly-attractive light blue sleeve braid CAP wore on the old black USAF-style mess dress (at the time, USAF wore the dark blue braid on the black mess dress).  It would have made sense if we kept on with the light blue braid we had already been using to distinguish CAP.   But when the USAF went to the current shade of blue mess dress, they adopted silver braid for their officers and we swooped in somehow with the old dark blue braid - eventually on both service and mess dress.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That rumor probably came out of the not-terribly-attractive light blue sleeve braid CAP wore on the old black USAF-style mess dress (at the time, USAF wore the dark blue braid on the black mess dress).  It would have made sense if we kept on with the light blue braid we had already been using to distinguish CAP.   But when the USAF went to the current shade of blue mess dress, they adopted silver braid for their officers and we swooped in somehow with the old dark blue braid - eventually on both service and mess dress.

Now that I didn't know.  I agree; we should have kept the light blue as "CAP-distinctive."

[Hawk200]

I know; I was a member then.  But we had the sleeve braid on the old four-pocket tunic too, so I was wondering when we got that.  How many years ago were we allowed that?

I think we've had it as long as the Air Force has. Reading back in some of the older uniform manuals, it seems to be present.

I remember the Tony McPeak uniform, but I only ever saw one person wear it, an AD Ch/Capt.  I never saw rank slides with it (except one B/W picture).

I never wore it active duty, it became mandatory forty five days before I separated. I didn't get it for the simple fact that I wasn't going to spend the money, and my supervisor showed me some obscure reg reference that said that it wasn't required to be obtained if you separated less than 180 days from the mandated date.

The rank slides I never saw anywhere but photos in AF Times, and Airman magazine. They were deemed a non-starter because a number of people confused them with AF Academy rank (just what was stated in the Times, I never heard it said personally).

Personally, I preferred the old four-pocket.

I liked the four pocket design that Mosely wanted. I thought it would look fine without the belt.

Now that I didn't know.  I agree; we should have kept the light blue as "CAP-distinctive."

I've actually seen the light blue on the old black mess. It's not pretty. I would refuse to own such a thing, and would probably do the medals on a tux thing before I would ever wear that uniform.

[Hawk200]

...old dark blue braid - eventually on ... dress.

I think the blue braid looks better. The silver just seems gaudy to me. Then again, I thought it looked gaudy on the CSU, too.

[Spike]

But I don't know when we got the sleeve braid.

Standard officer sleeve braid. It was part of the service coat when that service dress was approved for CAP.

Initially, that service coat design used braids (in multiples) to denote rank. It didn't last with the overwhelming backlash from Air Force members who felt it looked "too Navy". There were even epaulet sleeves for the shirts with the appropriate number of "stripes" that were treated even more derisively than the rank braid on the service coat.

The sleeve rank was done away with, epaulets were added for the traditional hard rank, and the officer braid was added to the lower sleeves like the old style coat had.

All of the changes were made prior to the service dress being approved for CAP use. By the time we got it, the Air Force had already settled on the epaulets, and the officer sleeve braid.

Just some history for you.  You are referencing a very short period in Air Force uniform design.  Officer sleeve braid was introduced to Army uniforms in 1903.  The Air Force kept the tradition when it became a separate Service in 1947.  They even kept the trouser braid until 1950.  The sleeve braid is and continues to be a way to distinguish between Officers and Enlisted members.

It was part of the CAP uniform for CAP Officers in 1945 and has always been on the CAP service dress dress uniform.  That is called tradition.  Getting rid of that is like ignoring history. 

[FlyingTerp]

Just some history for you.  You are referencing a very short period in Air Force uniform design.  Officer sleeve braid was introduced to Army uniforms in 1903.  The Air Force kept the tradition when it became a separate Service in 1947.  They even kept the trouser braid until 1950.  The sleeve braid is and continues to be a way to distinguish between Officers and Enlisted members.

It was part of the CAP uniform for CAP Officers in 1945 and has always been on the CAP service dress dress uniform.  That is called tradition.  Getting rid of that is like ignoring history.

I've seen the sleeve braid on Air Force Academy Cadet uniforms.  They are not officers...yet.

See this article from CAP Volunteer Now:

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/news.cfm/former_minn_cadet_commander_honored_as_air_force_academy_freshman?show=news&newsID=6777

[Spike]

^ And your point?  Did you notice how "big" the braid was as well?  Military Academy Cadets are "Officers in Training".  The academy uniforms share some qualities with AD Officer uniforms, but are distinctive all their own.

This was about the braid CAP wears, the history of it and why we should keep it.  Not that it "exists in other places as well".

[FlyingTerp]

^ And your point?  Did you notice how "big" the braid was as well?  Military Academy Cadets are "Officers in Training".  The academy uniforms share some qualities with AD Officer uniforms, but are distinctive all their own.

This was about the braid CAP wears, the history of it and why we should keep it.  Not that it "exists in other places as well".

Wow.  Sorry for trying to contribute to the discussion and it doesn't meet your standard of being on topic.

...but I do agree it needs to stay.

[Hawk200]

Seems to be a little misunderstanding. I'm not advocating removing blue braid on service coats, simply provided a little history on it. The braid has always been a part of our service coats, it was never "later approved" for us.

As to the blue braid that we were on Mess Dress, I believe that our Mess Dress looks better than the active duty version with silver braid. Personal opinion, and put forward as such.

As to the light blue braid, I've seen it, and I don't think it would look proper on ours. We have a Mess Dress, nicely configured, and it doesn't need to change.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Actually, I was thinking of the light blue braid for us on service coats.

Who knows, if we'd had that on the CSU, maybe things would have gone better.  Just speculation.

[Hawk200]

Actually, I was thinking of the light blue braid for us on service coats.

Trust me, it wouldn't look right. The color was pretty nasty on black, and even with blue would probably be the kind of combo that would make you want to puke in your mouth a little.

Besides, we have grey epaulettes that are pretty distinctive, we don't really have a need to change. One more will just result in more inquiries of "What uniform is that?".

[billford1]

From the original post does anybody like any of Billford's uniform picks?

[Fuzzy]

Was your intention to set a uniform pick for just CAP distinctive uniforms or Senior Members across the board?

[billford1]

Was your intention to set a uniform pick for just CAP distinctive uniforms or Senior Members across the board?

These would CAP Distinctive Uniform options based mostly on what we've already got.

[billford1]

One more pick. Those Veterans who have Military Badges should be allowed to wear one on the Aviator Shirt Uniform.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

One more pick. Those Veterans who have Military Badges should be allowed to wear one on the Aviator Shirt Uniform.

Agreed.  I would also say at least their top three ribbons earned in the Army/Navy/AF/USMC/USCG/Merchant Marine/USPHS/NOAA Commissioned Corps/State Military.