Reporting aircraft discrepencies

[Crash]

Hello fellow aviators.  I have a question for you.

If you were to find a discrepency during your pre-flight, at what point would you report this discrepency? 

Hypothetical scenario:  You are about to depart VFR at night in a CAP Cessna-172 with standard equipment.  Your pre-flight reveals a burnt-out landing light.

My questions are three-fold:
1)  Do you continue the flight?
2)  When would you report the discrepancy, and to whom?
3)  Does your squadron or Wing have an offical time-to-report policy?

Thank you in advance for your comments.

[maverik]

/off topic, you can do VFR at night?\ on topic.

[SarDragon]

/off topic, you can do VFR at night?\ on topic.

Why not?

[maverik]

Umm let me try and explain my theory (hey i'm only in ground school so far) VFR= Visiual Flight rules. It is night means it's dark visibility is low.  It would be kinda hard to see outside the cockpit to notice the horizon it would seem.

[SarDragon]

Depends on where you're flying. We have decent horizons at night here in SoCal.

I do think we need to get back on topic, though.

[Short Field]

For any discrepeancy:  If it did not obviously ground the aircraft, I would call the aircraft manager and discuss the discrepancy with him to see if I could or should continue the flight.   No nav lights for Day VFR is not an issue.   Your example:  (1)  The aircraft is not grounded as the FAA does not require landing lights for night VFR operations.  (2)  I personally would cancel the flight as I don't want the addional risk of flying without landing lights - even if I still had taxi lights.  I read that most aircraft accidents are the result of multiple deviations from procedures (or mistakes) and not the result of just one mistake.   If I stop at the first mistake, I figure I am fairly safe.

[Mustang]

Umm let me try and explain my theory (hey i'm only in ground school so far) VFR= Visiual Flight rules. It is night means it's dark visibility is low.  It would be kinda hard to see outside the cockpit to notice the horizon it would seem.

Go look outside tonight and tell me if you have any trouble seeing terrain in the bright moonlight.

[Pumbaa]

Didn't John Kennedy Jr, his wife and sister in law die because he was trying to fly VFR at night?

Interesting handle you have there 'Crash'...

[Mustang]

Calling the conditions he flew into "VFR" is pretty generous.  Marginal VFR + darkness = IFR conditions, IMHO.

[Thrashed]

CAPR 60-1 2-2 g.: Night VFR is permitted: however, if the PIC and aircraft are IFR qualified and current then the flight should be conducted under IFR, if practical. 

Take that how you want.  VFR is permitted.  Do it IFR IF practical.

I have over 2500 hours at night, its no big deal VFR.

[Thrashed]

My questions are three-fold:
1)  Do you continue the flight?
2)  When would you report the discrepancy, and to whom?
3)  Does your squadron or Wing have an offical time-to-report policy?
.

1. PIC's decision.  Landing light not required by FAA
2. Normally, discrepancies are report via computer in WMIRS
3. Not that I know.  I try to do things on the same day.

[c172drv]

Adding to the mix of this question.  How do you comply with the regulatory requirement to deactivate the landing light if you choose to go. 

1.  You need to deactivate.  Turning it off works.
2.  Need to placard it.  Tape and some paper work.
3. Record it.  Oops.  We don't have discrepancy sheets anymore.  Aircraft Logbooks if you are near them.  If not, then you are stuck.

The NB really needs to learn how to manage this kind of thing.  The current situation puts us all at risk if we get ramped with a small discrepancy like this hypothetical one.

[Thrashed]

That's why they don't want them in the aircraft log record at all.  Keep it online and out of sight.  I'm not sure who's making these decisions.

[scooter]

Check the latest interim Change letter to 60-1, including the supplements. Should answer the basic question. Tried to put in link but would not work. If it was me, I would not take the airplane unless I had at least a taxi light. It would be hard to explain why you hit something on the ground while taxiing to takeoff/parking with no lights on. Also don't screw up the landing without a landing light, hard to justify to the Feds/CAP.

   

[Crash]

Let me add one more twist to this hypethical situation.  What is the pilot waited more than 24 hours to report the discrepancy?  What if prior to that report, the aircraft had flown more than 6 sorties and this discrepency was not reported to the oncoming crew to review?  What if those flights were with cadets on board?

Does this change your opinion?

What I am looking for is, what would the "average" CAP pilot have done in this situation?

[Crash]

May I ask what you mean by your remarks below?  What regulatory requirement specifically are you referring to?  This is very important to me and my research.

Our Wing still has discrepancy sheets, but they are no longer kept in the aircraft.  Typically they are kept in a lock-box near the aircraft to meet new Federal requirements.

WMIRS?  I would love to see this.

Adding to the mix of this question.  How do you comply with the regulatory requirement to deactivate the landing light if you choose to go. 

1.  You need to deactivate.  Turning it off works.
2.  Need to placard it.  Tape and some paper work.
3. Record it.  Oops.  We don't have discrepancy sheets anymore.  Aircraft Logbooks if you are near them.  If not, then you are stuck.

The NB really needs to learn how to manage this kind of thing.  The current situation puts us all at risk if we get ramped with a small discrepancy like this hypothetical one.

[SarDragon]

Calling the conditions he flew into "VFR" is pretty generous.  Marginal VFR + darkness = IFR conditions, IMHO.

To amplify this, from the FAA report (emphasis mine):

Airports along the coast reported visibilities between 5 and 8 miles. Other pilots flying similar routes on the night of the accident reported no visual horizon while flying over the water because of haze.

These were atypical circumstances given the over water flight path. Night VFR flying is normally done under conditions where there are visible lights and/or a distinct horizon.

[CadetProgramGuy]

JFK jr got caught at night in inadvertant IFR while flying in marginal VFR conditions.  Went in to spacial disorientation, death spiral, ocean.

You could fly at night without a landing light (heck in my Commercial Flight training, we even trained in it, with landings) but why add to the risk factors?

Someone above mentioned that accidents happen when multiple things go wrong.  To me flying at night without a landing light is the first mistake.  And you haven't even fired up the plane yet.

Would I fly without the light?  No i would not. 

To have this discrapancy in a CAP aircraft for 6 sorties without a notation in a log?
To have flown with cadets on board?  In daylight I have no issue as this is not a safety of flight issue.  If the flight was at night, then there would be a safety of flight issue IMO.