Is it ok to wear Decorations (Via Ranks, Ribbons, Name Plate) on this?

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I have a Army Dress Coat (Trench Coat) and I took a picture with my Ranks and ribbons on it.

Is it ok to wear ribbons and ranks on this, is it ok with CAP Regulations?

[capchiro]

The word that comes to mind is..NO!!  The next thing that comes to mind is CAPM-39-1..

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

The word that comes to mind is..NO!!  The next thing that comes to mind is CAPM-39-1..

Ok. Thanks. I was Just wondering.

[SarDragon]

Is it a CAP uniform item?

Is it pictured or discussed in CAPM 39-1?

Is it even an Air Force uniform item?

Are ribbons and decorations (note the spelling) worn on what the AF calls outerwear - jackets, coats, sweaters, etc.? (CAPM 39-1, para 5-1, page 89, to save you some time)

For the answer to your Q, continue with the answer for the Qs above.

You need to read or review CAPM 39-1 to clarify in your mind the differences between decorations, rank, and ribbons. They are not the same and don't fit into the same group.

[Eclipse]

1) On what page of CAPM 39-1 does anything remotely resembling that jacket appear?

□ Page 12.

□ I have never read CAPM 39-1.

□ I use only CAPM 39-2 (because its one more).

□ I was hoping no one would notice.


2) Choose all that apply:

□ Date on the camera is wrong.

□ I have been wearing this jacket like this for over 4 years.

□ All of the above.

□ Other.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I have skimmed through the Uniform Regs, haven't read it fully though. And I know the date is wrong, I'm not worried about it, it's my mums camera. I made this thread to ask if it was okay to wear it, thats all.

[Eclipse]

I have skimmed through the Uniform Regs...

...ay, there's the rub...

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I have skimmed through the Uniform Regs...

...ay, there's the rub...

Yes I admit to not reading the regs fully. I'll find time sooner or later.

[SarDragon]

Then it would be a good idea to do so before asking more questions where you expect us to do the work for you.

[JoeTomasone]

It's moments like this where I sometimes feel a test on 39-1 ought to be passed before the privilege of wearing the uniform is earned.

[IceNine]

^ Second.  And for each combination not just a test on uniforms.

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's moments like this where I sometimes feel a test on 39-1 ought to be passed before the privilege of wearing the uniform is earned.

WIWAC/AB, the Curry test had some questions, but I believe most related to grade and customs and courtesies. I wouldn't mind seeing a uniform portion though. That said, the unit should have cadets Sgts or C/Officers who train the new cadets and go over these things...

I also want to see this coat, as it seems the image was pulled after the responses...

[Rodriguez]

With all respect, and I truly do mean that, I believe were a bit to hard on questions like these. Its obvious this is a C/AB were talking to here. At that grade I couldn't quote you on 39-1. I'm actually glad that he came on here and asked about it. I cant tell you how many times Ive seen cadets who would just wear the items in question and ask about them later. Which if your reading this Lunsford, and I hope you are, Is wrong.

Now, I'm in no way, shape or form saying that he shouldn't take a look at the regs before he asks, because he really should. But, instead of implying that a C/AB should "Memorize" the 39-1, we should tell him or her, Hey this is where you can find the info on your uniforms, get familiar with it and if you have questions, ASK before you do. Simple as that.

Just a friendly suggestion.

[Rodriguez]

Pardon my last post I misread your grade Lunsford you are a C/A1C.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And given his grade of C/A1C, and time in CAP, this is something he should be helping the newer cadets with, not getting help.

[MIKE]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

[Eclipse]

AWESOME! Good catch!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Is that what it is? I thought it was a weird 8 or a weird star glitch.

[Hawk200]

Yes I admit to not reading the regs fully. I'll find time sooner or later.

It should have been when you joined, and before you ever wore a uniform. "I just made mine like everyone else's" isn't the way to do it.

Here's a link to the current pubs: CAP Publications

Since there are change letters, you need to read those as well. They are located here: Change letters.

Check this stuff out first, and don't be experimenting when it comes to uniform configurations. The only authorized configurations are specified in the manuals and letters.

And definitely read them before asking about things.

[IceNine]

With all respect, and I truly do mean that, I believe were a bit to hard on questions like these. Its obvious this is a C/AB were talking to here. At that grade I couldn't quote you on 39-1. I'm actually glad that he came on here and asked about it. I cant tell you how many times Ive seen cadets who would just wear the items in question and ask about them later. Which if your reading this Lunsford, and I hope you are, Is wrong.

Now, I'm in no way, shape or form saying that he shouldn't take a look at the regs before he asks, because he really should. But, instead of implying that a C/AB should "Memorize" the 39-1, we should tell him or her, Hey this is where you can find the info on your uniforms, get familiar with it and if you have questions, ASK before you do. Simple as that.

Just a friendly suggestion.

And there are places that contain a gathering of people usually once a week that are designed with these issues in mind.

There is probably someone there that could actually look at it and make a decision.  Probably someone there that goes by flight commander.

[Майор Хаткевич]

With a unit that has at least one C/Col and at least another C/LtCol, I'm wondering why this isn't answered at the unit.

[arajca]

I'll add a helpful hint - When asking questions about uniforms, read the reg first. If you can't find it in there or it's not clear to you AND your unit folks can't/won't explain it, ask here and tell us 1. you checked the regs and 2. you asked at your unit.

You'll nip many comments/complaints in the bud by doing so. And increase the respect you get on here.

[SarDragon]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

I noticed that a while back, and it's a fault in the rack maker. I emailed the guy who owns it, but haven't heard anything back. It's the one out of somewhere in Europe. It's a great site overall.

[edit] This one.

[MIKE]

If you know your way around that site you can still get the correct device attached however.  Number of other issues I have noticed as well.

[Rodriguez]

With all respect, and I truly do mean that, I believe were a bit to hard on questions like these. Its obvious this is a C/AB were talking to here. At that grade I couldn't quote you on 39-1. I'm actually glad that he came on here and asked about it. I cant tell you how many times Ive seen cadets who would just wear the items in question and ask about them later. Which if your reading this Lunsford, and I hope you are, Is wrong.

Now, I'm in no way, shape or form saying that he shouldn't take a look at the regs before he asks, because he really should. But, instead of implying that a C/AB should "Memorize" the 39-1, we should tell him or her, Hey this is where you can find the info on your uniforms, get familiar with it and if you have questions, ASK before you do. Simple as that.

Just a friendly suggestion.

And there are places that contain a gathering of people usually once a week that are designed with these issues in mind.

There is probably someone there that could actually look at it and make a decision.  Probably someone there that goes by flight commander.

What I meant was that, I'm glad that the cadet didn't just wear the item in question. Ive never seen a C/A1C who can quote all of 39-1. I'm simply saying that we cant expect a junior cadet to know the whole reg. Now, I'm not saying that that is an excuse to just ask someone every time you have a question. Your first step should always be the reg. And as far as me being a flight commander, I rarely get those questions. That job is taken care of by my First Sergeant.

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

Its obviously a glitch in the ribbon rack, I haven't been able to fix it but I'm getting there. I obviously don't wear it on my ribbons. I wear the star.

[JoeTomasone]

Ive never seen a C/A1C who can quote all of 39-1. I'm simply saying that we cant expect a junior cadet to know the whole reg.

Of course we can't expect ANY member to memorize ALL of ANY reg.   Fortunately, that's why they are in printed form for us to refer to as needed.   I've heard that excuse a lot for why someone was wearing something improperly: "The reg is tooo big!".   Well, I'll bet a lot of money that the section on that item is pretty darn small.

It's a simple concept, really... If you don't know, are unsure, or need to confirm it --- LOOK IT UP.   It really won't hurt, I promise!

But really, no one should need to come to CAPTALK for this...  It should be effectively communicated during Level 1 or a Curry Camp or the like.   

Now if you really tried to find a relevant reg, or maybe are not sure if it exists, then by all means ask away.   The reason this place exists is to share the collective wisdom.    But it gets back to the old "Give a man a fish..." analogy. 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

That ain't all. There's no such thing as the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

[Hawk200]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

That ain't all. There's no such thing as the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

Yes, there is. We're it.

Although our specific name is "Civil Air Patrol", and that is what our tapes are to read.

[PHall]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

That ain't all. There's no such thing as the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

Yes, there is. We're it.

Although our specific name is "Civil Air Patrol", and that is what our tapes are to read.

Hawk, I guess you missed the ICL, we're back to just "Civil Air Patrol."

[DC]

None of those ribbons are medals either...

[Hawk200]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

That ain't all. There's no such thing as the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

Yes, there is. We're it.

Although our specific name is "Civil Air Patrol", and that is what our tapes are to read.

Hawk, I guess you missed the ICL, we're back to just "Civil Air Patrol."

I guess you didn't read what you quoted. Yes, we use "Civil Air Patrol" on our tapes. The term "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" would now be a generic term differentiating us from other Civil Air Patrols in the world. It's not our official name, and not to be used as such.

Make sense now?

[Major Carrales]

So Cadet Rodriguez, how exactly does one score Model Rocket Sharpshooter?  My Goddard only has a silver star on it... Guess I'm just a Marksman... Unguided model rockets generally being considered an imprecise weapon.

That ain't all. There's no such thing as the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

Ah I see...the United States is imaginary and so is the Civil Air Patrol. 

I can see that this issue refuses to die.  We live in the United States of America and are the Civil Air Patrol...stop reading more into it.

As for Hawk's post, he is correct... there is the Aussie Civil Air Patrol, Britain's Sky Watch Civil Air Patrol, several Latin American Civil Air Patrols that, due to Romance Language semantics, are "PAC" instead of "CAP."

While this concept was embraced by someone, it is none the less true.  The US Civil Air Patrol (as in the Original leader of the "Civil Air Patrol" movement of "Sky Militia," "Volunteer Airmen," "Minutemen of the Air" or what every one may call it) will have to be set aside to differentiate. 

[Rodriguez]

I really dont see the issue here. On the uniform, no we should not have any U.S. Civil Air Patrol on it, thats what the reg says and it should be followed. But its not on my uniform. Also my groups aircraft still says US on it and no one is crying about it.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

And given his grade of C/A1C, and time in CAP, this is something he should be helping the newer cadets with, not getting help.

Yes. I should be. I went through Uniform Regs while at my Wing Conference just this last weekend (October 23 - 25). That picture was taken before I left for the conference and I had no sleep. I guess I wasn't thinking, I'm sorta embarrassed though  Thanks for setting me straight.

[Hawk200]

Yes. I should be. I went through Uniform Regs while at my Wing Conference just this last weekend (October 23 - 25). That picture was taken before I left for the conference and I had no sleep. I guess I wasn't thinking, I'm sorta embarrassed though  Thanks for setting me straight.

There are things we learn as we get older. Many of us have learned the lesson of thinking something over a little more when we're tired. It becomes a little more ingrained as we age.

Keep reading though. A large majority of answers are in the publications. When something is unclear, we tend to argue about on this board. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

And for the record there are a lot of the unclear areas. One is the graphics that show the proper placement of cadet cloth insignia on BDUs. But that's a whole another topic.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

And for the record there are a lot of the unclear areas. One is the graphics that show the proper placement of cadet cloth insignia on BDUs. But that's a whole another topic.

I think Medal Insignia for Cadet Officers would be a whole lot better than Cloth, but hey, what can we do about it... 

[Fuzzy]

And for the record there are a lot of the unclear areas. One is the graphics that show the proper placement of cadet cloth insignia on BDUs. But that's a whole another topic.

I think Medal Insignia for Cadet Officers would be a whole lot better than Cloth, but hey, what can we do about it... 

You could never mention it again, and hopefully nobody on the uniform board will ever get that same idea.

[AirAux]

To give you some idea as to how this board works and the need for egos to add nothing infinitum, this cadet's question was fully answered in the first response to it and did not need the additional 35 responses it received.

[Hawk200]

To give you some idea as to how this board works and the need for egos to add nothing infinitum, this cadet's question was fully answered in the first response to it and did not need the additional 35 responses it received.

It could also be pointed out that if the cadet's question was answered in the first response, there was no need for you to read further, and that your own post was completely unnecessary and only served your own ego.

Had enough of yourself yet? Or are you looking to annoy more people?

[AirAux]

Touche' Hawk..  I will try to do better in the future.

[Hawk200]

Touche' Hawk..  I will try to do better in the future.

The answer may have been served in the first response, but sometimes we learn from the tangents.

[Prospector]

I have to say guys that after reading the postings on this, the comments and "humor" were a tad bit hard for a cadet / young adult / teen. There is no reason why the cadet in question should be hazed on this board for asking a question and seeking advice from us "Seniors" here on the board. If I were the cadet in question I would venture to say that I would not come back here to be treated like that.

So what if he didn't read the regs first or ask his unit first? Maybe he was embarrassed to bring it to their attention or wanted to avoid looking like a geek or moron to his peers. Does anyone remember the ill effects of unbridled teen peer-pressure? This board is not supposed to be a basic training brigade of drill sergeants for God's sake, and however unpopular it may be here, CAPTalk is not the Supreme Court of CAP and we should not be interrogating cadets like a traitorous suspect in some military court martial.

The kid is a cadet and deserves respect for wanting to be a part of CAP and for wanting to get it right "on his own" before going to his unit and looking like a horse's behind.

The fact is the cadet was respectful in his asking, he was in the right forum area for it, and he wasn't complaining / whining about anything or some perceived injustice. He just wanted to have a question answered and he got blasted by multiple artillery shells and blown out of the water for no real reason. Nice reception from his fellow CAPers.

I'm ashamed of the reaction he received from us on the board and I think he deserves an apology.

[Rodriguez]

I have to say guys that after reading the postings on this, the comments and "humor" were a tad bit hard for a cadet / young adult / teen. There is no reason why the cadet in question should be hazed on this board for asking a question and seeking advice from us "Seniors" here on the board. If I were the cadet in question I would venture to say that I would not come back here to be treated like that.

So what if he didn't read the regs first or ask his unit first? Maybe he was embarrassed to bring it to their attention or wanted to avoid looking like a geek or moron to his peers. Does anyone remember the ill effects of unbridled teen peer-pressure? This board is not supposed to be a basic training brigade of drill sergeants for God's sake, and however unpopular it may be here, CAPTalk is not the Supreme Court of CAP and we should not be interrogating cadets like a traitorous suspect in some military court martial.

The kid is a cadet and deserves respect for wanting to be a part of CAP and for wanting to get it right "on his own" before going to his unit and looking like a horse's behind.

The fact is the cadet was respectful in his asking, he was in the right forum area for it, and he wasn't complaining / whining about anything or some perceived injustice. He just wanted to have a question answered and he got blasted by multiple artillery shells and blown out of the water for no real reason. Nice reception from his fellow CAPers.

I'm ashamed of the reaction he received from us on the board and I think he deserves an apology.

I am in agreement. I mean come on, as a senior cadet I know what this kind of attitude can do to a cadet. And from senior members. Its one thing for a cadet to "chew out" another (which is wrong in most circumstances) but for seniors to go wild on a most junior cadet. Now, I don't think an apology is totally necessary, however for the future a simple "check the regs" would have been sufficient.

Ive been in his shoes and there's nothing that discouraged me more than an over exaggerated response to an honest question especially from my superiors.

[Майор Хаткевич]

This is a forum, we are not superiors or followers. You won't seem me addressing Eclipse as Major Eclipse, even If I do so over other forms of communication/in person.

As for being a senior cadet, I could say something, but I wont. But maybe it's because I'm as senior as you are, but pushing 20, and still have to salute phase IV 16 year old C/Majors and up - not that I have a problem with it, the cadet program is what it is, and I follow it to the letter. I just don't see either of us as senior, especially since neither of us has Eaker or higher.

[Rodriguez]

This is a forum, we are not superiors or followers. You won't seem me addressing Eclipse as Major Eclipse, even If I do so over other forms of communication/in person.

As for being a senior cadet, I could say something, but I wont. But maybe it's because I'm as senior as you are, but pushing 20, and still have to salute phase IV 16 year old C/Majors and up - not that I have a problem with it, the cadet program is what it is, and I follow it to the letter. I just don't see either of us as senior, especially since neither of us has Eaker or higher.

In the context of my sentence, by senior I mean a number of things. Senior as in experienced in dealing with the subject at hand, experienced in cadet program and CAP in general. You seem to take the term as a position or something numerically quantifiable. I'm not gonna slap a number on it and say "to be a senior cadet you must have been in CAP x amount of years... and so on" that would be wrong. Its not a position or a rank or grade its not something you get a badge for. Its just an adjective to describe someone's standing in a certain group of people or situation. Its like me saying "I speak from experience". Or like saying a Marine or Soldier fresh out of basic is a junior marine or junior soldier.

And as for having the eaker or whatever it may be, a rank doesn't necessarily indicate experience. However at the level of a C/Lt. Col. it generally would. But I could sure show you a few eaker or even some spatz cadets who sometimes, have no idea what there talking about on a given subject and that's fine, were all humans.

[Fuzzy]

"I speak from experience".

Whether a Lieutenant should be saying that is another question. 

But I can't seem to find the first shirt to ask him at the moment...

[Майор Хаткевич]

"I speak from experience".

Whether a Lieutenant should be saying that is another question. 

But I can't seem to find the first shirt to ask him at the moment...

And just how much would a C/MSgt - C/CMSgt (5-7 Achievements into the program) know about judging a C/1st Lt (10-11 Achievements into the program)?

[Fuzzy]

I'll have to ask him that too..

[MIKE]

Enough of this measuring contest.