Paid leave for CAP duty for federal workers

[RiverAux]

There seems to be a growing trend at the state level allow CAP members leave from their job for CAP duty.  The details vary by state with some granting paid leave, others unpaid, some extending it to all workers, while some restrict it to state government workers.

What do you think about granting 10-15 days of paid leave per year to federal government employees for CAP duty? 

Given that we've have extreme difficulty getting Congress to pass a bill that does no more than require that a study be done looking at how useful CAP might be to DHS, a bill such as I propose might be even more difficult.  However, given the state-level examples out there, it shouldn't be hard to show demonstrate the effectiveness of such legislation. 

Although there are various ways such a program could be implemented, I would suggest that the backup paperwork authorizing such leave include some sort of form signed by the Wing Commander and the State Director (since one could argue that such leave is an expenditure of federal funds and that is one of the things that SDs are supposed to be monitoring). 

[davidsinn]

I wouldn't support paid leave for federal employees. I would however support unpaid leave.

[blackrain]

I would really like to spend my 2 weeks of annual Guard training flying for the CAP. Beats being out in the field.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with paid leave for Federal Employees as long as their primary employer signs off on it.

[Ranger75]

My second career is is that of a Federal civilian employee with the Defense Intelligence Agency.  Although specific legislation permitting paid leave for CAP activities may not have been put forward, DIA's leave policy does encompass an employee's voluntary participation in emergency services missions.  The Agency's written leave policy grants authority to senior officials within the organization to authorize first responders up to five-days of paid administrative leave/year to participate in actual or state-sponsored emergency response training each calendar year.  I have used this provision twice.  The first opportunity was to participate in a search for a missing aircraft that extended over five days.  Later, I used the same provision to attend a four-day session with FEMA to certify IS 300/400. 

Another provision of the leave policy speaks to support of "civil defense" activities, again providing for five days of administrative leave each year.  I made use of this clause to fly to Langley AFB and participate in a series of meeting related to CAP's support of NORAD-sponsored air defense exercises.  I have shared my "find" with other Wing members, who also work in the Federal structure.  Upon reading the specific provisions of their own agencies' leave policy, several found similar provisions.  Others found nothing. 

I reviewed CPO guidance to Federal agencies and found that each is granted significant latitude in implementing employee leave.  I would suggest that members working for Uncle Sam check out their own circumstances.  You may find, like me, that the authority is there, but that it has to be brought to the attention of their supervisors and HR types because it is not commonly used.  --  Regards

[RADIOMAN015]

My second career is is that of a Federal civilian employee with the Defense Intelligence Agency.  Although specific legislation permitting paid leave for CAP activities may not have been put forward, DIA's leave policy does encompass an employee's voluntary participation in emergency services missions.  The Agency's written leave policy grants authority to senior officials within the organization to authorize first responders up to five-days of paid administrative leave/year to participate in actual or state-sponsored emergency response training each calendar year. 

So than basically you aren't a volunteer if you are getting paid by your employer to participate in another organization's activities .   Again I don't know why any government agency should be granting anyone in CAP (or any other voluntary organization) "paid" time off for participating/supporting another agency's activity.  The average hard working  taxpayers have enough load on them already without this provision that is very costly perk that looks like a potential for abuse and lowers government employees productivity overall.

Additionally, those civilian government employees that are considered mission criticial or mission essential probably should be actively discouraged by their agency/direct supervisor about participating in any emergency services organization that has the potential of taking the employee away from their "emergency" job.

I know in the private sector we hire people that we expect to be on the job every day performing what they were trained and paid to do.    In this economy we have to do more with less, but apparently some local, state, & federal government agencies "don't get it" with these liberal policies
RM     

[a2capt]

Why should Federal employees be any different?

Either it's fairly applied to all, or none.

I too, support unpaid leave, but not paid leave.

Is it the "Federal" that some how makes them "better" than non-Federal employees?

Use an aircraft carrier for an example. Everyone's job is equally important. If someone doesn't do XXX it means someone else has to do it.

..and if you are in effect getting paid to be there, thats pretty cool. But .. the whole organization is structured on personal sacrifice for all intents. My tax dollars already pay for this whole endeavor. Why should my ability to get, and the cost of those government services, suffer?

[Ranger75]

Since a number of posts have questioned the appropriateness of Federal policy, I thought I'd post an extract of the the directive provided to Federal agencies by the U.S. Ofice of Personnel Management:

GENERAL. The Federal personnel system provides departments and agencies with considerable flexibility in scheduling hours of work and time off. Departments and agencies are encouraged to make appropriate use of this flexibility in responding to requests for changes in work schedules or time off to allow employees to engage in volunteer activities, while giving due consideration to the effect of the employee's absence or change in duty schedule on work operations and productivity.

Annual Leave -- When employees request annual leave to perform volunteer service, departments and agencies should be as accommodating as possible in reviewing and approving such requests consistent with regulations in 5 CFR part 630, subpart C, Annual Leave, and applicable collective bargaining agreements.

Leave Without Pay -- At the discretion of the agency, leave without pay (LWOP) may be granted to employees who wish to engage in volunteer activities during normal working hours. As with annual leave, OPM encourages departments and agencies, whenever possible, to act favorably upon requests by employees for LWOP to perform volunteer services. However, LWOP is appropriate for extended periods only if the employee is expected to return to his or her job at the end of the LWOP. Agencies should review their internal policies on LWOP and applicable collective bargaining agreements.

Compensatory Time Off -- Departments and agencies may approve requests from employees for compensatory time off in exchange for performing an equal amount of time in irregular or occasional overtime work. For employees under flexible work schedules, departments and agencies may approve employee requests for compensatory time off for both regularly scheduled and irregular or occasional overtime work.

Excused Absence (administrative leave) -- Each department or agency has discretion to excuse employees from their duties without loss of pay or charge to leave. OPM advises that the granting of excused absence for volunteer activities should be limited to those situations in which the employee's absence, in the department's or agency's determination, is not specifically prohibited by law and satisfies one or more of the following criteria: (1) the absence is directly related to the department or agency's mission; (2) the absence is officially sponsored or sanctioned by the head of the department or agency; (3) the absence will clearly enhance the professional development or skills of the employee in his or her current position; or (4) the absence is brief and is determined to be in the interest of the agency. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of each department or agency head to balance support for employees' volunteer activities with the need to ensure that employees' work requirements are fulfilled and that agency operations are conducted efficiently and effectively. Agencies should review their internal guidance on excused absence and applicable collective bargaining agreements.

[RRLE]

What do you think about granting 10-15 days of paid leave per year to federal government employees for CAP duty?

And who gets stuck and unpaid to do the work of the CAPer or any other volunteer while they are out playing Rescue Ronnie?

All of these paid/unpaid leave proposals seem to forget that the work still needs to get done and the person left behind and stuck doing it (almost always unpaid) is going to resent it and the Rescue Ronnie.

Second thought - if you think your are so insignificant that you can take 10-15 additional days off (paid or unpaid) without any harm to the organization, maybe your boss will discover you aren't needed at all. After all - you just built the case for him.

[RiverAux]

the person left behind and stuck doing it (almost always unpaid)

I'm not sure who these unpaid federal workers are that you're referring to. 

By the way, I'm totally fine with restricting this to Air Force assigned mission use.  In these cases there is a demonstrated federal interest and giving a federal worker the ability to respond makes absolute sense. 

[wingnut55]

I am always disturbed by anyone who thinks volunteers should not be paid by their employers for emergency response. Tens of thousands of Volunteer Firemen around the country leave work to fight a fire and are often  paid by their employer.

I get Paid by my county employer to serve my Country as a CAP member, Yes I am a Volunteer but I am a highly skilled member of CAP and I am an asset. I serve an average of 5 days per month and 4 days of CD every other month, and fly missions as needed.

I have only requested paid time for  5 days in three years. I do not abuse it and I do not use it for attending training. Giving up $300.00 per day is not an option for me or 99% of people.

The pay thing was in place in the 1950s,60s,70s,80s because both my parents were in CAP and as Federal Govt. employees they got paid time off for missions.

Stop complaining about something that has always been in place. Without it we would have been hamstrung for the last 70 years. I am sorry that this may be NEWS to many of you, but it is a good thing and having it recognized by State mandate is also a pat on our back, it gives us a better force modifier option to our Country.

Sadly like many things NATIONAL HQ will do nothing and it will get screwed up by CAP members who are Idiots and use it to take free vacation. That will suckalot of air for those of us who are responsible.

[RRLE]

I'm not sure who these unpaid federal workers are that you're referring to.

It isn't hard to figure out. While Rescue Ronnie is off having fun someone has to do his/her work. The boss tells 'left behind' to 'work smarter not harder' as he dumps Rescue Ronnie's work on 'left behind'. Of course no overtime is approved. In the case of a salaried worker, there is no overtime issue so 'left behind' will probably get stuck doing Rescue Ronnie's work on overtime for free.

Rescue Ronnie isn't going to be well liked or respected by the 'left behinds' who did his work while he regals them with stories of his alleged heroism on his 'mission'.

I worked for a large company that had one of these policies. I was asked by my manager to witness an exchange he had with an employee who requested one of these leaves.

The employee requested the leave verbally. The manager made the following points:


1. Put the request in writing;
2. Either state in writing his job did not have to be during the absence (the look on the employee's face let you know he knew the outcome of writing that) or name the people who could do his job in his absence (similar look)
3. attach to the request a copy of a current membership card and a letter from the employee's volunteer superior that the employee was both requested and required for the assignment. The letter had to be on the non-profit's letterhead.

The manager also informed Rescue Ronnie that the manager would inform the employees named in 2 above that Rescue Ronnie had recommended them to do Ronnie's job in his absence.

The manager never heard from Resuce Ronnie about the matter again. Problem solved.

[lordmonar]

Okay y'all Let's put on your logic hats for a second.

The CAP is the offical auxillary of the USAF a government function....so the government is giving paid time off to its employees so that they can support another part of the government (CAP on a real mission is a part of the government).

Where's the problem?

The taxs payers are not out anything.

As for the "rescue ronnie" and his overworked co-workers....how is that any different then when rescue ronnie takes his 30 days paid vacation?  It is not like ronnie is taking off for a long time.  It is usually just 2-5 days.

[RiverAux]

I trust CAP members to know when it makes sense to use such leave and when it would leave their primary employer in the lurch or when it would really hurt their career.  I think the CAP member would know that its not a good idea to go chase an ELT on the day of a major presentation to his boss's boss's boss.   On the other hand, I would hope the boss would realize that having the CAP member help respond to a major disaster might be a slightly better use of their time than taking routine monthly inventory (or something equivalent). 

It would always be up to the CAP member to make the call about whether the importance of the CAP mission outweighs the importance of his job and know when discretion is the better part of valor, and let the CAP mission go. 

Having requests for such leave in writing and be backed up by paperwork signed by the wing commander and state director (as I suggested earlier) would be the procedure I recommend to avoid the situations RRLE described.

[heliodoc]

Follow Ranger75's example...

That is the law as far as Federal workers go.  Not every Fed manager is going to see volunteer activities as Rescue Ronnie see the validity to so.  Some Fed agencies do not even know what CAP does and some may not have that "positive attitude" toward CAP as everyone here would love to see

So it is not as simple as lordmonar's application of a "logic hat."

Taxpayers not out anything?  Right... some government projects have deadlines like regular industry, but some here may just think Guv doesn't.  So taxpayers may not be "out anything" but there are projects with some serious work that might require Rescue Ronnie to be in place, but RR may have an understanding manager.

OPM rules pretty well trump Rescue Ronnies out there and usually Rescue Ronnie to take AL, LWOP, or COMP

Why get anything more special for CAP?  Rest of us in Fed Govt had use these different vacation days to get time off.

So go ahead approach Congress and OPM on CAP volunteer time off.....  don't hold your breath or expect any action any time soon

[RRLE]

how is that any different then when rescue ronnie takes his 30 days paid vacation?

There are several differences. Among them:

1. Every worker gets a vacation. Not every worker gets a 'rescue vacation' either because they don't want to volunteer or because they cannot for various family, medical etc reasons. Face it - Rescue Ronnie is getting an extra 2 weeks off the job for something he/she enjoys doing.

2. Vacations are usually scheduled in advance. Every company I worked for required at least 2 and some 4 weeks advance notice. Rescue Ronnie and his request is usually going to be last minute with no time to prepare to cover the position.

better use of their time than taking routine monthly inventory (or something equivalent). 


And who are you going to stick with that less then glorious assignment so Rescue Ronnie can go have fun? It is always going to be more fun to play the hero then do the more inglorious aspects of your job - it is much better to stick a co-worker with those duties and then show off your new bling when you come back from your mission. I'm sure his/her co-workers will love Rescue Ronnie for that.

The CAP is the offical auxillary of the USAF a government function....so the government is giving paid time off to its employees so that they can support another part of the government (CAP on a real mission is a part of the government).

Where's the problem?

As someone else already mentioned - if someone is paying you to be on a mission, you really aren't a volunteer anymore. It doesn't matter who is footing the payroll. Volunteers are by definition unpaid. In effect, policies such as those advocated convert CAP into a paid reserve force not a volunteer force.

[Ned]

When I was a fairly junior police officer in my department, I certainly felt some minor resentment from my teammates when schedules had to be juggled for my National Guard weekends.  But for the most part they understood the issue and supported me.

But that was minor when compared to the nastiness of the sergeants and other supervisors who constantly made cracks at briefing about having to reshuffle the schedule so the rookie (me) could have the weekend "off."  It was almost like they felt I was somehow personally somehow raining on their parade.  It really got old after a while.

But  this kind of garbage:

The employee requested the leave verbally. The manager made the following points:

1. Put the request in writing;
2. Either state in writing his job did not have to be during the absence (the look on the employee's face let you know he knew the outcome of writing that) or name the people who could do his job in his absence (similar look)
3. attach to the request a copy of a current membership card and a letter from the employee's volunteer superior that the employee was both requested and required for the assignment. The letter had to be on the non-profit's letterhead.

The manager also informed Rescue Ronnie that the manager would inform the employees named in 2 above that Rescue Ronnie had recommended them to do Ronnie's job in his absence.

The manager never heard from Resuce Ronnie about the matter again. Problem solved.

just means that some two-bit manager on some sort of power trip thinks she/he knows better than the Congress of the United States about getting the government's work done.

What's the civil service equivelent of fragging?

[Ranger75]

In the case of my agency, approval for an administrative absence (paid leave) must be routed in writing to the Chief of Staff.  For myself, that means passing through a senior SES and a Major General before being passed to the Chief.  As a result, I don't take the privilege for granted and can be assured that consideration of my request will be balanced with the needs of the organization.  In the past four years, I have utilized the leave authority for a total of eight days.   I also don't feel as though I am taking anything away from the tax paying public.  By this time of the year, I will have exceeded the maximum renumeration of wages and compensatory time permitted by Federal law.  Any additional hours I work beyond the standard 40/week during the last quarter of the year is a free gift to the government.  In my position, exceeding 40 hours is a given each week.   

[RRLE]

manager ... thinks she/he knows better than the Congress of the United States about getting the government's work done.

But he does. Congress passes feel good legislation without any idea how it will work. Most Congress Critters have never held a real job in their life. Managing a fawning congressional staff is not the real world of work or management.

The Congress Critters however will be the first to keel-haul the manager and his superiors when some constituent complains they didn't get their government check or other bene because Rescue Ronnie was off having fun.

[Ned]

But he does.

Of course he does.

Every corporal knows best how to run the Army.

And they're normally pretty happy to tell you about it.   

But first level supervisors who actively work to confound the official policies of their organization based on nothing more than their personal "worm's eye view" of how things should work are, at best, short-sighted and foolish.

And often times find themselves demoted or worse.

[lordmonar]

As someone else already mentioned - if someone is paying you to be on a mission, you really aren't a volunteer anymore. It doesn't matter who is footing the payroll. Volunteers are by definition unpaid. In effect, policies such as those advocated convert CAP into a paid reserve force not a volunteer force.

So....what's the problem with that? 

[heliodoc]

^^^

I can see a few problems........ CAP losing its coveted "non-profit" 501(c)3 status

                                              CAP now required to have STANDARDIZED training plans across US
                                             
                                              CAP having to face a new myriad of OSHA and REAL SAR standards

Congress isn't going to roll over on this one.  Neither is OMB and OPM.  States can do with what they want with vacation and  time for volunteers.

Do like any pother Fed worker ....dip into the vaca time ...ALOT of us have already done so.

IF CAP wants all the rights for paid leave as a Fed worker .......its REALLY high time they start lobbying Congress ....... Good Luck on that!!

[lordmonar]

^^^

I can see a few problems........ CAP losing its coveted "non-profit" 501(c)3 status

                                              CAP now required to have STANDARDIZED training plans across US
                                             
                                              CAP having to face a new myriad of OSHA and REAL SAR standards

Congress isn't going to roll over on this one.  Neither is OMB and OPM.  States can do with what they want with vacation and  time for volunteers.

Do like any pother Fed worker ....dip into the vaca time ...ALOT of us have already done so.

IF CAP wants all the rights for paid leave as a Fed worker .......its REALLY high time they start lobbying Congress ....... Good Luck on that!!

The funny part is that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is the one allowing it.  AD USAF personnel have had Permissiive TDY for CAP support for years and years.

OPM is the guys who write GS employee leave rules.....they are the ones who allows this.

[heliodoc]

^^

True..

But  again,  why should their a separate Fed leave category for "CAP leave"

I had to take vac time just like every one else in Fed govt against whatever leave account

I stand by... NO special privileges (paid) for CAP.  Time to realize the burden on the Government for more leave requirements.  Is not that what the previous Pres Administration was about??   VOLUNTEERISM

Stand by that CAP and accept what is already on the books

[AirDX]

Having retired from the FAA 18 months ago, I'll tell you straight up that paid leave for CAP activities will lead directly to fraud and abuse.  As soon as a few people figure out that paying ~$60 a year to CAP will net them another 2-3 weeks off work, we'll be overrun with members we never see.  Bad, bad idea.  I always arranged my work schedule around required training and duty when I was a volunteer fire/rescue guy.  It's not hard.

[AirDX]

1. Put the request in writing;
2. Either state in writing his job did not have to be during the absence (the look on the employee's face let you know he knew the outcome of writing that) or name the people who could do his job in his absence (similar look)
3. attach to the request a copy of a current membership card and a letter from the employee's volunteer superior that the employee was both requested and required for the assignment. The letter had to be on the non-profit's letterhead.

I can't speak to #2, but #1 and #3 apply to National Guards and Reservists... both when I was with the FAA and when I was working for an airline, they had to provide copies of orders covering the period they were requesting either military leave or leave of absence.  No verbal requests.

I'll support paid leave for CAP when we start getting ordered to the sandbox. 

[billford1]

When we get called out I'm hesitant about accepting a mission assignment during a work day. People I work with don't know what I do with CAP. I wouldn't ask to be paid by my employer for CAP Duty and have in the past always used vacation days.  My employer will pay for Military duty to supplement what the Service Person doesn't make in order to equal their normal pay. The same applies to Jury Duty.  I accept not being paid for volunteer work but would appreciate some acknowledgment from the state Govt that some volunteer activities should be given consideration where the volunteer service can involve situations where lives may be saved.

[RiverAux]

Having retired from the FAA 18 months ago, I'll tell you straight up that paid leave for CAP activities will lead directly to fraud and abuse.  As soon as a few people figure out that paying ~$60 a year to CAP will net them another 2-3 weeks off work, we'll be overrun with members we never see.  Bad, bad idea.  I always arranged my work schedule around required training and duty when I was a volunteer fire/rescue guy.  It's not hard.

Seeing as how my suggestion would require that both the Wing Commander and a civilian federal employee cooperate in defrauding another arm of the federal government by ginning up fake orders for CAP members or by giving orders to a CAP member for a real mission that they don't actually participate in, I don't see much opportunity for abuse. 

[MikeD]

I'm not sure who these unpaid federal workers are that you're referring to.

It isn't hard to figure out. While Rescue Ronnie is off having fun someone has to do his/her work. The boss tells 'left behind' to 'work smarter not harder' as he dumps Rescue Ronnie's work on 'left behind'. Of course no overtime is approved. In the case of a salaried worker, there is no overtime issue so 'left behind' will probably get stuck doing Rescue Ronnie's work on overtime for free.

A lot of the time the work can be put off for a few days.  The federal gov does NOT allow, let alone ask, employees to work uncompensated.  If the work did have to get done, comp time and credit hours are applicable, even to salaried workers.

[Gunner C]

In my job there's a great deal of guardsmen, reservists, and retirees.  Right now we have two on extended active duty and my partner is probably going on an AD tour for about three months.  Yes, it puts us in a crunch for a bit, but we reshuffle the deck chairs and drive on. 

It's important to note that these guys get their full government employee pay minus their military pay - they are getting a better deal than the folks around them.  Is it fair? Sure.  It's what their employer allows.

When (if) a CAP member gets their full government employee pay minus their military pay minus their CAP pay (zip)?  Sure, it's what their employer allows.

Yes, there will needs be controls put on it, but that's OK.  Will anyone get thrown in jail for fraud?  Almost certainly!  It will happen, just like folks with regular employers sometimes pad their time sheets.  Not often, but it does happen.

Would it cause CAP to lose their 501(c)(3) status?  Probably not.  If the government says that this is allowable on the one hand, the government would look sillier than usual to say that it's not allowable on the other.

On that "volunteerism" thing . . . how much did WW2 aircrews get paid per day?

[RiverAux]

On that "volunteerism" thing . . . how much did WW2 aircrews get paid per day?

They did get some sort of per diem, but I wouldn't call it "pay". 

[Gunner C]

I don't remember what it was.  Ed could probably set it straight.  But in 1942 dollars, it wasn't bad. Especially in the days of HUGE unemployment.

[RiverAux]

I'm thinking $8 or something like that which is worth about $80 today, which isn't all that much different than US gov't per diem rates now.

[RADIOMAN015]

In my job there's a great deal of guardsmen, reservists, and retirees.  Right now we have two on extended active duty and my partner is probably going on an AD tour for about three months.  Yes, it puts us in a crunch for a bit, but we reshuffle the deck chairs and drive on. 

It's important to note that these guys get their full government employee pay minus their military pay - they are getting a better deal than the folks around them.  Is it fair? Sure.  It's what their employer allows.

When (if) a CAP member gets their full government employee pay minus their military pay minus their CAP pay (zip)?  Sure, it's what their employer allows.

Yes, there will needs be controls put on it, but that's OK.  Will

Unfortunately there's some reservists and guardsman that really know how to play "the game" so to speak.  The federal law on this really meant when units were being "involuntarily" deployed, the employer couldn't take any negative actions agains the employee. while they were deployed.   However, what seem to have happend now is the Joe or Jane Reservist (who can't figure our what their real career is) plays the law against the employer by "volunteering" for various military duties which keeps them out of their employers' business, which still has to run without them, (and may have spent substantial time, money, & effort trarining them), etc.  I don't think that is fair to the employer  -- Again remember that employers in the private as well as the public/non profit sector hire people who will be on the job every day and perform their assigned duties .

As far as CAP senior members getting paid for their Emergency Services, well the various HHS Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMATS) get paid a federal salary & per diem when they are deployed (might even get some money for training time).   You've alreay seen postings on this list that some wings have been unsuccessful in getting ANY volunteers for deployments to the neighboring state.  Perhaps this would change IF there was a monetary incentive for the "volunteer".
RM
   

[AirDX]

Seeing as how my suggestion would require that both the Wing Commander and a civilian federal employee cooperate in defrauding another arm of the federal government by ginning up fake orders for CAP members or by giving orders to a CAP member for a real mission that they don't actually participate in, I don't see much opportunity for abuse.

Any mission where there's enough time to do paperwork like that is not an emergency... thus shouldn't require paid time off work.

[Eclipse]

Having retired from the FAA 18 months ago, I'll tell you straight up that paid leave for CAP activities will lead directly to fraud and abuse.  As soon as a few people figure out that paying ~$60 a year to CAP will net them another 2-3 weeks off work, we'll be overrun with members we never see.

First, you don't structure any program on the assumptions that a few bozos will abuse the system.

As said above, falsifying the deployment or travel orders for a member to be able to take advantage of any of the various leave options the states have today, or feds might incorporate, would be fraud on a pretty significant scale, likely resulting in a new Wing CC, and some time at Club Fed.

Any really workable plan would probably require that the orders pass through CAP-USAF or the State Directors, in which case the odds of fraud drop significantly - no State Director is going to sign off on falsified deployment orders for some member and risk his own career and freedom.

Anything is possible, but if you're stupid enough to do that, you deserve anything you get.

Bad, bad idea.  I always arranged my work schedule around required training and duty when I was a volunteer fire/rescue guy.  It's not hard.

Do you have a crystal ball that tells you when & where the next hurricane/tornado/earthquake/flood will occur?  Does it has a granular adjustment to further tell you when CAP will be deployed?

Sure you can request vacation time for a SAREx, Eval, or similar training, but those are usually a weekend anyway.  The long-term, long deployment, missions happen when they happen, with little notice.  For Katrina we left with 24 hours notice, for KY we went on 3 hours spin up (yes 3 hours).  In both cases many who went were gone at least a week if not more.

Not exactly a lot of time to negotiate days off with your co-workers.

I would support paid leave for Federal Employees not only for CAP, but for any benevolent emergency-related activities.

Its all the same pool of money, Joe Taxpayer.  Whether we let federal workers go and help, higher contractors to do the work, or reimburse local agencies through FEMA and other funding sources, eventually we all pay the bill, and unlike the second two above, paid leave is "soft money" not requiring additional appropriations or expenditures over and above existing salary and benefits.

[sdcapmx]

Wow, you can sure tell who the bosses are by reading these posts.  Always thinking the employees are trying to get by with something.  And you same people wonder why we need labor unions!  If we all worked for good honest employers we wouldn't have the need for unions now would we?  We CAP members give up countless hours to the cause.  I don't even want to know how many hours I give to CAP each year.  I'm not complaining as I do it willingly.  If the employer wants to pay their employee for CAP training or actual SARs then good on them.  That is the kind of place I would be proud to work at.  I personally get very offended at the employer that chronically complains about Guard or Reserve leave!  Having spent 26 years in the service I have worked for some of those clowns that thought we were always trying to pull something over on them.  Sure it happens but 99% of us were proud to serve and did it with honor.

That being said I hope none of you Nay Sayers are ever laying out in the woods in your wrecked aircraft hoping a CAP search crew is looking for you only to find out that none of them could get off work to come save your ass!

[heliodoc]

Well sd

Never was a boss. I was "mid level" Station Mgr for a wildland fire operation and an aerial photo interpreter for two different agencies.  One was necessary personnel and the other was not.

We were  governed by Agency and OPM rules that governed our leave, and while there were "creative ways" of financing leave, one had to be smart about and manage it.  Both Agencies granted me my mil leave and again I had to be smart about it.  Permissions from out State Guard commanders allowed me to do drills out of state and when my supervisors allowed me to didi out of the area from the fire truck and crew, I still had to be smart and inform my superiors about my schedules.

There will paid agencies AND CAP to look for any downed aircraft.  Don't know where the Nay Sayers comes from, but CAP members working for the Feds and civilian sector  STILL have to be smart about working with supervisors about "CAP leave" which, in reality, is everyones vaca time.  Countless numbers of us give our time to whatever mission we can. 

Take it from a laid off State employee........ I'd rather be working and at this point in time,  leaving a job for a possible search and recovery for CAP seeems pretty far off for me and numerous others in my position.  It seems SILLY, in this economy, for folks in CAP, looking for new ways to get time off for missions, either through State or Federal  employment.

The only thing I would be for... is an equivalent "volunteer FMLA" ....2 weeks UNPAID in both Feds and State systems.  Today's economy gets what it can.  Remember the last Administration wanted VOLUNTEERISM...

How do you suppose CERT, Volunteers in Police Service, Medical reserve Corps , etc came along??    Professionals being asked to volunteer during the times of all risk all hazard operations...

How come CAP, in its 68 years, just can't be happy with getting along with their employers, get it together and figure it out??

Again this is coming from someone who has been recently laid off........ CAP members who are working are lucky to be working.

Fed, State and civilian sector DO NOT have to grant CAP leave unless it has been lawfully approved in those States.  Nay Sayers NAWWW.  Realists out here in the real world that see that CAP members are no more special than anyone else.  Besides there are paid folks looking for my ass if my wrecked ship goes down. I hope I would see both CAP and paid looking for me.  CAP has YET to corner the market on al things SAR

[DG]

Here's a proposal.

Instead of asking the company to pay for it.  (Leading to layoffs.)

Divide the cost among all the co-workers and take that contribution from each paycheck.

Patriotic duty.

[davedove]

A workable solution for federal workers would be to expand the military leave category.  Make it public service leave or something like that.  It would include guard/reserve time and whatever emergency services organizations they wanted to include.  Sure there would be a few who abuse the system, but that happens with any system.

The way it is now, volunteer emergency personnel have to take their normal annual leave to take off from work.  This works, but it also discourages some people from volunteering.  If the higher ups want to encourage people to volunteer, expanding the leave coverage would make it easier.

As far as workload being shifted to others, it seems to me when I go on leave from my federal job, the work that comes in during my absence is waiting for me when I get back.

[DG]

As far as workload being shifted to others, it seems to me when I go on leave from my federal job, the work that comes in during my absence is waiting for me when I get back.

Brings to mind one current situation I have.  A patent application for one of my clients that has not received a first Office Action though it has been pending for 3 years.

[RiverAux]

Any mission where there's enough time to do paperwork like that is not an emergency... thus shouldn't require paid time off work.

Wrong.  Check with some of the states already have similar provisions.  I have it on good authority that in one of them that this can be done in less than an hour.

Keep in mind that we're not talking about using this for run-of-the-mill ELT missions and even though it could be done quickly, I do doubt that it would be used on the first day or two of other missions.  Most "real" missions last 3-10 days so there would be plenty of time for such a request to be processed. 

[Eclipse]

^ And in the case of hurricane response, especially, communities and agencies can start planning days, if not a couple of weeks in advance.

You write the orders to encompass the anticipated landfall and timing, adjust as necessary.