Unit Citation for NYWG

[Ozzy]

and 'snow flakes that stay on my nose and my mittens'
but that's beside the point.

Here is what I found out:

Currently there isn't any citation yet. There is some movement for one, but it wasn't given out nor aprroved so I consider this thread closed until it gets approved... which will probably will be around April/May IMO.

[ZigZag911]

Years ago, the reg was in fact that anyone who ever joined a unit got to wear any UC ever awarded that unit....this has been changed since...and I think both methods (how we did it then, how we do it now) mirrored contemporary military practice.

[Eclipse]

Years ago, the reg was in fact that anyone who ever joined a unit got to wear any UC ever awarded that unit....this has been changed since...

Cite, please.  It has not changed.

...and I think both methods (how we did it then, how we do it now) mirrored contemporary military practice.

Only the Army allows for transient unit members to wear a unit citation that they didn't earn (by simple virtue of their being assigned to a given unit, and only while they are assigned there).

Beyond the clarification, another problem we've seen is members thinking the transient rules apply, but then not removing the ribbon when they move to another unit.

[Thrashed]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/forms_publications__regulations/indexes_regulations_and_manuals.cfm

According to the letter below R39-3 dated 10DEC08, there has been a change.  Look on the bottom of page 4.

[Eclipse]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/forms_publications__regulations/indexes_regulations_and_manuals.cfm

According to the letter below R39-3 dated 10DEC08, there has been a change.  Look on the bottom of page 4.

Its ok to read the whole thread instead of just jumping in on the last page.  I quoted that ICL on page one of this thread.

There's been no change to wear of the ribbon.  It was always only for members of a specific unit as indicated on a Personnel Authorization.  The ICL simply clarifies the way its always been because far too many people were misinterpreting the reg.

[RiverAux]

Incidentally, one of the things I saw while reading early 1960s CAP Times was an article about this very issue that said you could only wear it if you were in the unit when it was earned.

[Thrashed]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/forms_publications__regulations/indexes_regulations_and_manuals.cfm

According to the letter below R39-3 dated 10DEC08, there has been a change.  Look on the bottom of page 4.

Its ok to read the whole thread instead of just jumping in on the last page.  I quoted that ICL on page one of this thread.

You quoted me, so I guess you're talking to me.  If I jumped to the last page of the thread, why do I have so many posts at the begining of the thread?  I still don't understand how a change letter is no change. It's not a clarification letter.

[Eclipse]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/forms_publications__regulations/indexes_regulations_and_manuals.cfm

According to the letter below R39-3 dated 10DEC08, there has been a change.  Look on the bottom of page 4.

Its ok to read the whole thread instead of just jumping in on the last page.  I quoted that ICL on page one of this thread.

You quoted me, so I guess you're talking to me.  If I jumped to the last page of the thread, why do I have so many posts at the begining of the thread?  I still don't understand how a change letter is no change. It's not a clarification letter.

The fact that it is published as an "ICL" doesn't mean its a "change" per se.  Its just the mechanism of publication.

[SarDragon]

The old text:
(2) Only one Unit Citation Award certificate and streamer will be presented to the unit receiving the award. For example, if an entire group (rather than just the group headquarters) receives the Unit Citation Award, the certificate and streamer will be displayed at group headquarters only; however, all members of the group headquarters and squadrons within that group are authorized to wear the Unit Citation Ribbon. The members of each unit which receive the Unit Citation Award are authorized to wear the Unit Citation Ribbon. This ribbon is not furnished by National Headquarters, but may be purchased from the CAP Bookstore or commercial sources. The Unit Citation Ribbon may be worn permanently by all individuals who were members of the unit during any portion of the period of time shown in the National Headquarters Personnel Action announcing the award. Unit commanders will post the members' records to show their eligibility to wear the ribbon.

The added ICL text:
l. Unit Citation Award. The Unit Citation Award ribbon may only be worn by members assigned to the unit during any portion of the period of time shown in the National Headquarters Personnel Action announcing the award. Individuals who join the unit at a later date are not authorized to wear the Unit Citation Ribbon.

Emphasis mine. The wording "permanently" possibly suggested that members coming into the unit could wear it while in the unit, but not after transferring out. And we all know folks who never bothered to discontinue the hinted temporary wear.

[Hawk200]

The wording "permanently" possibly suggested that members coming into the unit could wear it while in the unit, but not after transferring out. And we all know folks who never bothered to discontinue the hinted temporary wear.

The excuses I've always heard was "I don't want to buy a new ribbon rack!", or "Nobody's really gonna know!", or "Nobody cares!"

My responses were usually "Tough $---, you're happy to buy a new one when you get a new ribbon", or "I know, and you now know it's wrong", or "I've been called a nobody before, so have many other people, fix it."

I'm almost at a point where I don't care if I get anymore. I may go with only my highest training level on my future racks. Getting hard to find racks that fit the number.

[dwb]

Emphasis mine. The wording "permanently" possibly suggested that members coming into the unit could wear it while in the unit, but not after transferring out. And we all know folks who never bothered to discontinue the hinted temporary wear.

The word "permanently" was in there to let members know that if they were in the unit when the citation was awarded, they could wear it permanently, i.e., even after they transferred out of the unit.

But really, this isn't an argument worth having anymore, since the ICL clarified it once and for all. Until it changes again, that is.

[PHall]

I may go with only my highest training level on my future racks. Getting hard to find racks that fit the number.

The 50-17 authorizes you to only wear your highest training award if you need to minimize the number of ribbons.
I did that with mine and eliminated a whole row.

[Hawk200]

I may go with only my highest training level on my future racks. Getting hard to find racks that fit the number.

The 50-17 authorizes you to only wear your highest training award if you need to minimize the number of ribbons.
I did that with mine and eliminated a whole row.

Yeah, that's the plan. I wouldn't mind if we could wear four wide; or, preferably, there were miniature ribbons available. That's not an option, unfortunately. Not that I could find some of what I have in mini anyway.

[PHall]

I may go with only my highest training level on my future racks. Getting hard to find racks that fit the number.

The 50-17 authorizes you to only wear your highest training award if you need to minimize the number of ribbons.
I did that with mine and eliminated a whole row.

Yeah, that's the plan. I wouldn't mind if we could wear four wide; or, preferably, there were miniature ribbons available. That's not an option, unfortunately. Not that I could find some of what I have in mini anyway.

You can wear four wide. CAPM 39-1, Table 5-4.

[Eclipse]

You can wear four wide. CAPM 39-1, Table 5-4.

It looks weird, though, since its wider than the pocket.

[Hawk200]

You can wear four wide. CAPM 39-1, Table 5-4.

That only applies to coats. Shirts don't have lapels.

Figure 2-3, Note 3: "Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row."

I thought so too, but it was mentioned otherwise here.

[PHall]

You can wear four wide. CAPM 39-1, Table 5-4.

That only applies to coats. Shirts don't have lapels.

Figure 2-3, Note 3: "Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row."

I thought so too, but it was mentioned otherwise here.

There is a solution to this "problem", don't wear ribbons on blue shirts.

And I'm just shocked that there is a conflict in the 39-1. Of course there are conflicts in the 36-2903 too.

[ZigZag911]

Eclipse,

I was referring to common practice in early 1970s...at which time a lot of our senior officers were veterans of army air Corps in WWII....so I suspect, as you say, USAF reg has always been as described, these folks just automatically followed what they'd been taught in the service, without checking CAP reg....and passed same misinformation along to us cadets!

[Hawk200]

There is a solution to this "problem", don't wear ribbons on blue shirts.

I've got a good friend, still in the Air Force, that would attempt to beat me senseless if he ever found out I wore a blue shirt without ribbons on it. It's just an old habit. I almost never wear short sleeves, either, so I've got tie on as well. I rarely wear it with badges only.

And I'm just shocked that there is a conflict in the 39-1. Of course there are conflicts in the 36-2903 too.

There may be conflicts, but I think the ratio is a lot greater in 39-1. Not to mention the fact that -2903 gets supplemented, or rewritten, fairly consistently compared to 39-1. No hunting to see if there's yet another letter on uniforms.

[PHall]

And I'm just shocked that there is a conflict in the 39-1. Of course there are conflicts in the 36-2903 too.

There may be conflicts, but I think the ratio is a lot greater in 39-1. Not to mention the fact that -2903 gets supplemented, or rewritten, fairly consistently compared to 39-1. No hunting to see if there's yet another letter on uniforms.

Wanna bet that the 36-2903 is up to date? Try finding any mention of the ABU in it.

Everything about the ABU is in message traffic, which is not accessable from the AF Pubs website. :clap: