Night Vision equipment in SAR

[N Harmon]

Do night vision equipment have any place in search and rescue? What about specifically in ground search and rescue?

[PHall]

It will when you find a pot o'gold to pay for them!

Cheap they are not!

[Airrace]

I used them once and they are great tool. Just expensive. I seen some on E-bay going for under $2,000.00

[Rotorhead]

Do night vision equipment have any place in search and rescue? What about specifically in ground search and rescue?

Yes, but CAP has specific regs about the use of them on CAP missions. Check the new 60-3.

[coolkites]

hehe I found a pair in a tech magazine for $50 !!! they truly do work but not as well as a pair that costs in the thousands. here is the link of of amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00153F5QA/ref=asc_df_B00153F5QA888001?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=googlecom09c9-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B00153F5QA

Sorry for the long link

[DC]

Typically one would want a set that works well enough to be more of a help than a hindrance. The reviews on Amazon suggest the opposite.

I can't list any specific examples, but a buddy of mine used to have a night vision monocular that he got for less than $1000, and it worked pretty well. You just use it once in a while rather than wear it all the time, it allows you to keep a pretty good idea of your surroundings without trashing your night vision (biological) which you'll need if/when the batteries die.

Fun toys to play with. Now if we could get aircrews using them, that would be awesome.

[coolkites]

I was just throwing out a suggestion. Just some food for though compared to other $1000 alternatives.

[PHall]

Aircrew quality NVG's are very expensive and require a large amount of initial and recurring training.
Something that is almost unheard of in CAP.
Heck, it's hard to stay "current" on the bloody things if you're in the Guard/Reserve.


Not to mention the major headaches you get the first couple of times you wear them until your brain gets the hang of them.  (Pass the Tylonol please.)

[Hawk200]

Fun toys to play with. Now if we could get aircrews using them, that would be awesome.

Not like they'd be all that usable. Resolution probably wouldn't be all that practical for the kinds of things that we're looking for.

There's also the focus issue. You probably couldn't maintain proper distancing to keep everything in focus.

Aircrew quality NVG's are very expensive and require a large amount of initial and recurring training.
Something that is almost unheard of in CAP.
Heck, it's hard to stay "current" on the bloody things if you're in the Guard/Reserve.

Not to mention the major headaches you get the first couple of times you wear them until your brain gets the hang of them.  (Pass the Tylonol please.)

Initial training is a major annoyance. Without major currency on them, they're useless. I had to fly at least every other week in the evenings for a couple days to stay current.

Yeah, got to love those headaches. Especially the ones that make you feel like you're eyeballs will just fall out when you lean over to pick something up.

[Major Lord]

It would be madness to try to drive or fly with an NVD, but a low cost scope can be handy in certain situations. Looking out over a pitch dark valley for instance, will allow you to spot artificial light signatures ( cellphone screens, PDA's, anything with an lighted LED) pretty easily. A lot of the really cheap gear out there uses 1st Generation Russian tubes, which are bright, have barely adequate resolution, and in some cases spit X-Rays out  the eyepiece. A lot of gear sold as new uses "rebuilt" tubes, so caveat emptor. Given a choice, I would rather have a thermal imager than a photomultiplier NVD, but the price difference is like Yugos to Cadillacs!

Major Lord

[Rotorhead]

It would be madness to try to drive or fly with an NVD,

Also a violation of 60-3.

[coolkites]

Darn you regulatory types, just kidding

[flyerthom]

Operational use of NVG's requires by FAA regulations logged currency. At work we must have the obligatory 3 takeoffs and landing every 90 days or we must be retrained. CAP doesn't fly at night that often.  I will also add that when worn with a Gentex helmet you will end up with a headache. This of course is less painful than CFIT but still a less than positive experience.

[Major Lord]

It would be madness to try to drive or fly with an NVD,

Also a violation of 60-3.

I believe that the use of night vision devices is prohibited only for pilots flying CAP aircraft, and this is in regulation 60-1, not 60-3. You will find night vision equipment listed on the table of advanced equipment. 60-3 does not prohibit anything as I recall, its just the Aircrew & Flightline Tasks section. I have been out of the SAR field for awhile, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Major Lord

[Hawk200]

I believe that the use of night vision devices is prohibited only for pilots flying CAP aircraft, and this is in regulation 60-1, not 60-3. You will find night vision equipment listed on the table of advanced equipment. 60-3 does not prohibit anything as I recall, its just the Aircrew & Flightline Tasks section. I have been out of the SAR field for awhile, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Major Lord

You're correct. 60-3 actually directs one to 60-1 for the restrictions. It has no restrictions on it's own.

[heliodoc]

NVG's in CAP?

Hasn't this been talked about before?

Training requirements are pretty straight forward in the military, LE, and SOME firefighting helo ops.

CAP meeting NVG requirements?? Pretty doubtful unless CAP has some FULL TIME DEDICATED instructors for this mission...

Hey, how about some Gentex SPH-4, 4B's, SPH-5, or some HGU-56 helmets for you CAP C182 drivers, huh??

NVG's?  Better have some reason, dinero, and a staff that can take care of ALLLL that

[Rotorhead]

I believe that the use of night vision devices is prohibited only for pilots flying CAP aircraft, and this is in regulation 60-1, not 60-3. You will find night vision equipment listed on the table of advanced equipment. 60-3 does not prohibit anything as I recall, its just the Aircrew & Flightline Tasks section. I have been out of the SAR field for awhile, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Major Lord

You're correct. 60-3 actually directs one to 60-1 for the restrictions. It has no restrictions on it's own.

Partially correct:

"1-30. Prohibited Equipment. CAP is often offered equipment that is not appropriate to our mission or is not reasonable for our personnel to use because of the training time required for personnel to remain proficient.

a. Restrictions for the use of night vision devices by CAP personnel during any flight operations can be found in CAPR 60-1. Representatives of other agencies may use their own equipment. CAP ground resources may use night vision devices in support of SAR/DR operations while on foot or as passengers in vehicles. Use of night vision devices by drivers during motor vehicle operations is prohibited.."

[CAP.is.1337]

hehe I found a pair in a tech magazine for $50 !!! they truly do work but not as well as a pair that costs in the thousands. here is the link of of amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00153F5QA/ref=asc_df_B00153F5QA888001?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=googlecom09c9-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B00153F5QA

Sorry for the long link

Those would probably be Gen 1, (Vietnam tech,) and they are pretty much useless as anything but toys nowadays. A good Gen 3 night vision monocular, such as a PVS-14, costs around $4,000.

[Rotorhead]

hehe I found a pair in a tech magazine for $50 !!! they truly do work but not as well as a pair that costs in the thousands. here is the link of of amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00153F5QA/ref=asc_df_B00153F5QA888001?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=googlecom09c9-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B00153F5QA

Sorry for the long link

Those would probably be Gen 1, (Vietnam tech,) and they are pretty much useless as anything but toys nowadays. A good Gen 3 night vision monocular, such as a PVS-14, costs around $4,000.

Note that they are in the "Toys and Games" section at Amazon.

[coolkites]

hehe I found a pair in a tech magazine for $50 !!! they truly do work but not as well as a pair that costs in the thousands. here is the link of of amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00153F5QA/ref=asc_df_B00153F5QA888001?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=googlecom09c9-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B00153F5QA

Sorry for the long link

Those would probably be Gen 1, (Vietnam tech,) and they are pretty much useless as anything but toys nowadays. A good Gen 3 night vision monocular, such as a PVS-14, costs around $4,000.

Note that they are in the "Toys and Games" section at Amazon.

To all I do realize that these do not work as well a a pair of Gen 3s costing thousands of dollars but if they help you see at nigh by maybe 25% then they are worth the $50. No need to dis the product just because it does not fit our needs.