Another "wear" quandry...

[Prospector]

What is the rationale behind not being able to wear State National Guard awards and decorations on the CAP distinctive uniform?

It seems to me that a State National Guard (either Army or Air components - not volunteer State Defense Forces such as militias) are legitimate active military entities of our nation that require enlistments and commissions just like the reserves and active-duty, and therefore should be allowed to be worn after all federal awards and before CAP awards.

Does anyone have a clue why this is not authorized?

My thoughts on the hierarchy are as follows: Federal first, State second, then Non-State third should be the order.

I know I've been posting a lot on this subject matter - but please humor me.

[lordmonar]

State awards are not allowed on Federal orders....i.e. the USAF does not recognise them as legitimate awards......so neither do we.

Just as only those other service awards that are recognised by the USAF may be worn on CAP uniforms.


And this IS NOT a hit on NG awards....it is just the way the system works.

[Prospector]

Umm, I think you are incorrect here on a couple of different levels - not a flame, just an obs.

Army and Air National Guard wear the respective uniforms of their sister services - Army wears Army Active Duty uniforms - Air wears Air Force uniforms. When participating in federal service you cannot wear your state awards, however, when not on federal service you can and are actually required to wear them (at least most state regulations say so that I know of).

Basically what I am saying is that a State's Air National Guard is a recognized Air Force unit - albeit not federal unless activated. And since the Air Force does recognize its Air National Guard troops as Air Force, it doesn't make sense for CAP not to recognize them.

Now, the other problem with your answer is that I am specifically not talking about the AF-style uniform here, just the CAP distinctive. Since CAP has complete control over it's own uniform and what is worn on it, the argument that "because the Air Force doesn't allow it" doesn't hold water here.

Any other insights on the rationale? Is it more of a "let's not add to the confusion if we don't have to" mentality?

[Hawk200]

State decs used to be authorized, but they dropped off after one of the latest crappy rewrites. I still think it was some idiot that didn't know what they were, and figured they'd just write them out.

I think it really stinks that foreign decorations are authorized, but state ones aren't.

[Spike]

^ +1

CAP uniforms (although close in resemblance to Air Force uniforms) are NOT Air Force uniforms.  Some here have made that very clear in other threads.  Allowing a member to wear state awards on the CAP uniform does no harm, and will cause no confusion. 

Best thing to do, petition the uniform committee for a change!

[Hawk200]

Allowing a member to wear state awards on the CAP uniform does no harm...

Depends on what you mean by "no harm". There are a number of envious fragile egos out there. I've had people that couldn't stand the fact that I wore military decs, even to the point of referring to my military decs as "ostentatious" and saying that either I didn't deserve to wear them or I probably didn't really earn them. (Because we all know that the military just hands out decorations, right? {/sarcasm} )

I've only got three state decs from the last ten years of Guard time. Two of them don't cover anything that my Fed ribbons do, the other some may consider somewhat of a duplication. They were legitimately earned, but someone along the way decided that they shouldn't count.

I do know of a couple of states where the Wing received State awards for jobs well done. I think it sends a bad message when CAP members can't wear them.

[Spike]

I do know of a couple of states where the Wing received State awards for jobs well done. I think it sends a bad message when CAP members can't wear them.

YUP.  I know 3 Wings in the past 5 years.  I also know CAP Squadrons that received awards from TAG's, yet can't wear them.

[heliodoc]

Yep

Once again, CAP's approach to their own "little" world."

Nothing much matters when it come to military decorations, earned by those on AD, Guard or Reserve operations, YET they want to identified with SOMETHING military

Can't have it both ways, CAP

Time to identify State and Federal earned missions as those member in CAP who are still contributing while in uniform as well as we folks who have retired and CONTRIBUTING to CAP's mission(s).  I have earned only 6 during ARNG operations and one State award from the TAG of a State where I was a State EMA type.  So for CAP to put limits on military or REAL State earned Emergency Services missions ....is once again...LAME

Sheesh......... CAP and their fragile egos......... there is truly REAL BLING out there NOT just some banana republic ribbons and citations that CAP dictates about.....

[Pylon]

Yep

Once again, CAP's approach to their own "little" world."

Nothing much matters when it come to military decorations, earned by those on AD, Guard or Reserve operations, YET they want to identified with SOMETHING military

Can't have it both ways, CAP

Time to identify State and Federal earned missions as those member in CAP who are still contributing while in uniform as well as we folks who have retired and CONTRIBUTING to CAP's mission(s).  I have earned only 6 during ARNG operations and one State award from the TAG of a State where I was a State EMA type.  So for CAP to put limits on military or REAL State earned Emergency Services missions ....is once again...LAME

Sheesh......... CAP and their fragile egos......... there is truly REAL BLING out there NOT just some banana republic ribbons and citations that CAP dictates about.....

Stop blaming CAP for somehow excluding state decorations because of some perceived air of superiority. 

The Air Force tells us how we will wear their uniform.  The Air Force has complete authority and control over what we permit and what we do not permit on the CAP AF-style uniforms.  CAP can request we wear our uniforms a certain way, but those requests can be and are often denied or altered to suit the Air Force.  So the wear instructions are not imposed by CAP, but by the Air Force.

Frankly, the decoration wear policy for the CAP AF-style uniforms is the same as the Air Force policy when their uniforms are in "federal" mode, with the addition of CAP-specific ribbons.  That's the only difference.  If you want to complain and whine about state decorations not being perceived as legit, why beat up CAP when the Air Force themselves don't allow it when Guard troops are on federal duty?  How can CAP be the big, bad guy in your view when the Air Force isn't equally guilty for doing essentially the same thing?

Civil Air Patrol has its issues for sure, but let's not villainize them for things they're certainly not out their doing intentionally (if they had any control over it at all), as one might think if we only read heliodoc's post here.   You can't just fill in the blanks with whatever back-story makes the most sensation.  "In CAP, you can't wear state decorations... ergo, Civil Air Patrol must be territorial and look down upon state service, and allowing them would shatter the fragile egos their leaders must certainly have, yada yada..."   

Where's my jump to conclusions mat?

[MIKE]

The CGAux does not permit awards from state military departments on the Auxiliary uniform.  CAP awards are also noted as prohibited.

[lordmonar]

+1

CAP regulations are in tune with USAF regulations.  You can wear state decorations on state time but not on federal time.

CAP is the Auxillary of the FEDERAL USAF not the guard so it is only natural that we follow the federal rules.

This is not a hit on state awards......if anyone has a problem....go yell at the AF for not allowing state awards while on federal orders.

Now here is an intresting question......why have state awards at all?

I don't know how the Army does decorations my the ANG guy I know all get AF awards...  There is no restriction for NG people getting AF awards even if their actions were done on state time as opposed to federal time.

Not all states have their own awards.

On a side note to that.........if we were to start allowing State NG awards then we would soon be having State Defrence Force members asking to be allowed to were their awards.  Then we will have all those "Private" militias and military support organisations asking us to recognise their awards.

Anyone want to allow the U.S. Ranger Corp Medal of Valor to be worn on CAP uniforms? 

[heliodoc]

I'll take my hits here on this forum

I understand the USAF position... The CAP talkers here will set any one straight on uniform wear...just ask'em

MAYBE with all our different unis....Why yell at the AF???

Hell, reading all the CAP post here, convinces me that Ma Blue ought to drop us altogether, huh??

Then what will CAP do without the AF then?  How's that for an question??

I will not even wear the aircrew wings that I was awarded in the RM on CAP uniform 'cuz I  sure don't want to answer to CAP folks where and when I earned them.  CAP could exercise controls at the NHQ level by maybe eliminating ALLLLL RM decorations so they could keep their corporate mantra........ How about making a REAL 39-1 regarding ALLLLL decorations and REWRITING the entire 39-1 to delineate EVERYTHING about uniform wear with EXACTLY the same uniform issues and tell all  "the volunteer brothers at NHQ" this is it ....no deviations.... every fat and fuzzy to the gym or OUT.  How 'd that set with everybody???  I see rud happening every day from the Wing I am in.....and after a 30 hiatus from this Wing...I can villianize CAP for not EVEN following its own rules

So I will stand down on this issue....BUT believe you me, this thread will rear its ugly head at least 2 more times before the end of 2009....guarooooooooooteeeed!!

[Ned]

^^ OK, I just read this twice - slowly - and I have no idea what it means.

[Spike]

Maybe State Decorations on the CAP Corporate uniforms the AF does not have a say on??

[AlphaSigOU]

Agreed. While I'm a stickler for proper uniform wear, it does me no good to wrap myself around the axle over incorrect uniform combination designations. I earned my two RealMilitary® ribbons for my all-too-brief time in the Air Force, and I will continue to wear them proudly on my CAP uniform. I will also continue to wear my observer wings, even though my qualifications will expire during my time at Kwajalein. When I have the opportunity to requalify again I will attend NESA or the Texas Wing equivalent, LESA during my home leave.

[flyboy53]

I can understand the pride behind why someone would want to wear state ribbons on the CAP uniform. I have one, too. In this state (New York), I have known CAP officers who were on duty as National Guardsmen at the World Trade Center after 9-11, and I for one, wasn't about to tell them to take off that ribbon. However, there is another side to this whole issue: simplicity. We have a provision in our uniform regulations that limits the number of ribbons and badges to the notch on the uniform lapel...just like years ago in the Strategic Air Command when you weren't allowed to wear more ribbons than the wing commander. I can't wear my CAP and AF stuff together now without breaking that rule so I've always just worn my five rows of AF stuff...and one European foreign award. The thing is, we are a federally-chartered program and I'd rather wear my AF stuff because it means more....even though most CAP people have no clue what the ribbons mean. As officers (sic), we're supposed to present a professional image. Piles of ribbons don't ususally cut it and that includes the intent of the original question about wearing state ribbons on the corporate uniform. Haven't we junked that uniform up enough? Another thread on these hallowed pages dealt with the Texas National Guard adoping a ribbon like the encampment ribbon. Ever wonder what a National Guardsman thinks when they see all the CAP stuff?

[RiverAux]

It seems to me that a State National Guard (either Army or Air components - not volunteer State Defense Forces such as militias) are legitimate active military entities of our nation

State Defense Forces ARE legit military organizations.  They receive a lot of the same state military awards as members of the National Guard depending on the state. 

[Prospector]

Thanks everyone for the spirited debate on this. I definitely agree that there should be some limitations to the wear of awards and decorations on the uniforms (both AF and CAP).

I think that the limitation of how many ribbons can be worn at one time is a good solution - although adding State ribbons into the mix would be a good thing to re-adopt in my opinion. Again I think the main problem that seems to crop up in every posting I read is the lack of a definitive identity for the CAP. Either we are the Air Force Auxiliary - same as the Coast Guard Aux is, or we are not. If we are, great, then let's go with AF rules and regs, if not, then let's go with Corporate rules and regs and forget AF.

I guess that's the real crux of all these discussions - who is the CAP really? Are we truly a Corporate entity or are we the AF Auxiliary? Trying to maintain both identities is the problem I think.

It seems to me with Congress mandating a Board of Governors for CAP, that CAP is now solely a Coporate Entity that the Air Force can use as a "civilian contractor" as needed for AFEMs. If that is so, let's embrace our Corporate identity and act appropriately!

Let's choose one or the other and make the best of it.  End of rant.

[Stonewall]

Hold on, someone actually cares about state awards? 

[RiverAux]

Let's choose one or the other and make the best of it.

This is not for CAP to decide, but Congress.  It is Congress that has put us in this weird position of not being truly one thing or another but rather a strange government/private hybrid.  Unless CAP and the AF team up to approach Congress to change this (in whatever direction), we're going to stay the same as we are and have to make other decisions accordingly. 

[Flying Pig]

I have LE ribbons.  I think they would look great on my CAP uniform.

Honestly, every state has different looking ribbons.  At least federal ribbons are all the same.  Good Grief Charlie Brown.  If we bring on NG ribbons, we'll have guys walking around with 50 ribbons.  It doesnt matter.  If your in the guard, wear your federal decorations and your CAP decs and your foreign decs and call it good.

I think most will agree that most CAP members have about had it with uniforms and ribbons.  Really, we're OK. 

[Eclipse]

I think most will agree that most CAP members have about had it with uniforms and ribbons. 

I think most would agree that other than 10 or 20 of us here, no one remotely gives it as much thought  as we do - they wear the ones awarded and move on.  A few wear badges and ribbons they shouldn't, and a few have somewhat...personal... justifications for why they do, or don't wear something.

What frustrates me is the thought that every award, doo-dad, ribbon, and atta-boy given by some other remotely tangentially related service should pile up on the CAP uniform.

Why not wear CAP awards, decs, and badges on CAP uniforms, and save the other stuff for the other guys' uniforms?

[Rotorhead]

What frustrates me is the thought that every award, doo-dad, ribbon, and atta-boy given by some other remotely tangentially related service should pile up on the CAP uniform.

Why not wear CAP awards, decs, and badges on CAP uniforms, and save the other stuff for the other guys' uniforms?

What are you, a communist?

[Hawk200]

If we bring on NG ribbons, we'll have guys walking around with 50 ribbons. 

What exactly are you basing that idea on? I've got far more Federal awards than state decs. Twenty five separate awards (accumulated on nineteen ribbons) as opposed to three state decs.

The Fed awards were accumulated over a period of twenty years, the state decs over a period of ten. Federal awards are for more common. There are Federal awards I'm not even eligible for because I'm Guard, and one I've lost out on. To act as if Guardsman are getting them like candy is showing how completely uninformed some people are about them.

You may not like the idea of state awards being worn, but be accurate. The average Guardsman with no previous active duty time will have fewer ribbons than their active duty counterparts.

[Flying Pig]

Relax warpig.  What I am saying is between State Decorations, Military Decorations and CAP Decorations, all on the same uniform, we are going to start looking silly.  Especially since each state has their own ribbons.  8 yrs in the military, although none of it in the Guard, I would say Im pretty well informed.

[Stonewall]

The average Guardsman with no previous active duty time will have fewer ribbons than their active duty counterparts.

My wife has only served in the Guard, never activated, never been on active duty.  She has 7 ribbons in 6 years.

I spent 4 years on active duty in the Army and left with 6 ribbons.  6 years later when I left the Army Guard I had 12 ribbons (all federal).  I had about 4 or 5 state ribbons that I never wore, nor did I know what they were for.

In my experience, I accumulated more ribbons in the Guard than I did on Active Duty.

[Hawk200]

Relax warpig. 

Warpig? Do you realize how that sounds? The anti military sentiment on this board is bad enough, this doesn't help.

The average Guardsman with no previous active duty time will have fewer ribbons than their active duty counterparts.

My wife has only served in the Guard, never activated, never been on active duty.  She has 7 ribbons in 6 years.

I spent 4 years on active duty in the Army and left with 6 ribbons.  6 years later when I left the Army Guard I had 12 ribbons (all federal).  I had about 4 or 5 state ribbons that I never wore, nor did I know what they were for.

In my experience, I accumulated more ribbons in the Guard than I did on Active Duty.

OK, maybe she did accumulate more. Were they all State decorations? I believe the post implied that Guard personnel get more State decorations than Federal ones. Is this the case with your wife?

Seven in six years is unusual from from what I've seen. She had to be pretty high speed, and have a decent supervisor to get that many. Either that, or the states I've been in have been crap. Which isn't out of the question.

[Flying Pig]

Pig, War-type, 1-each. Green.

[Stonewall]

OK, maybe she did accumulate more. Were they all State decorations? I believe the post implied that Guard personnel get more State decorations than Federal ones. Is this the case with your wife?

My wife didn't even know there were such thing as state awards.  All hers are federal.

Seven in six years is unusual from from what I've seen. She had to be pretty high speed, and have a decent supervisor to get that many. Either that, or the states I've been in have been crap. Which isn't out of the question.

It's the Air Force/Air Guard...  She got 4 just for finishing BMT (BMT, Honor Grad, NDS, GWOT-S).  She has since acquired Expert Shooter, AFCOM and one other that I don't recognize.

My point about ribbons, especially state ribbons, is that they are so insignificant that I have no clue which ones I have.  Same with my wife.  I know I have some because I saw them in some file a year or so ago.  I didn't even know I had some of them.  My wife didn't even know the Guard had their own ribbons.  If they mean that little to people in the Guard, why would they ammount to any sort of status in CAP's world?

Seriously?  Ribbons?  State awards?  There is a line, please don't cross it.  They're just ribbons.

[Spike]

Lets not bash State DEC's, while some Federal Dec's are actually handed out like candy as well too.  Graduating Basic Training?? Um, ya if you didn't you wouldn't be serving.  There is one ribbon gone.  Service ribbons and deployment ribbons and GWOT ribbon and the list goes on as to which ribbons are awarded for the same activity. 

However, I am working on my second Community Service, so not a hater here of anyone's decorations. 

[Stonewall]

Sorry, I didn't mean to discriminate towards State Decs.  I should have bashed most Federal Decs too.

I have as many ribbons as my grandfather and father combined.  My grandfather stormed the beaches of Normandy earning a BSM(V) & PH.  My father served 20+ in the Navy with multiple tours in Vietnam as part of the Brown Water Navy.  I've got almost 14 years in and have only deployed once, yet I look like a hero.  NATO, BMT, NCOPD, GCM, Longevity, NDSM(S), GWOT-S, all gimmies.

[Hawk200]

Pig, War-type, 1-each. Green.

Now I know where you stand. Enjoy the free flying, that's obviously what you're here for.

It's the Air Force/Air Guard...  She got 4 just for finishing BMT (BMT, Honor Grad, NDS, GWOT-S).  She has since acquired Expert Shooter, AFCOM and one other that I don't recognize.

Fairly standard. I had almost all the same ones (minus GWOT, Honor Grad) when I was in about the same place.

My point about ribbons, especially state ribbons, is that they are so insignificant that I have no clue which ones I have.  Same with my wife.  I know I have some because I saw them in some file a year or so ago.  I didn't even know I had some of them.  My wife didn't even know the Guard had their own ribbons.  If they mean that little to people in the Guard, why would they ammount to any sort of status in CAP's world?

In the states I've been in, they're harder to actually get than most Federal awards available to Guard personnel.

As far as "status" in CAP, most people don't even recognize many of my Federal awards. I don't think that should equate to not amounting to anything. Just because it isn't recognized, doesnt mean it's nothing.

Our ribbon racks are resumes. Just like a paper one, if something isn't clear, you ask.

If state ribbons are disallowed, fine. But they shouldn't be considered candy. They don't come easy like many people think. A lot of CAP awards are given far more freely than any state dec ever will be. I find it amusing how some people talk about how they "earned" a Membership ribbon, but think that military awards are "gimmes".

[Flying Pig]

Pig, War-type, 1-each. Green.

Now I know where you stand. Enjoy the free flying, that's obviously what you're here for.

It's the Air Force/Air Guard...  She got 4 just for finishing BMT (BMT, Honor Grad, NDS, GWOT-S).  She has since acquired Expert Shooter, AFCOM and one other that I don't recognize.

Fairly standard. I had almost all the same ones (minus GWOT, Honor Grad) when I was in about the same place.

My point about ribbons, especially state ribbons, is that they are so insignificant that I have no clue which ones I have.  Same with my wife.  I know I have some because I saw them in some file a year or so ago.  I didn't even know I had some of them.  My wife didn't even know the Guard had their own ribbons.  If they mean that little to people in the Guard, why would they ammount to any sort of status in CAP's world?

In the states I've been in, they're harder to actually get than most Federal awards available to Guard personnel.

As far as "status" in CAP, most people don't even recognize many of my Federal awards. I don't think that should equate to not amounting to anything. Just because it isn't recognized, doesnt mean it's nothing.

Our ribbon racks are resumes. Just like a paper one, if something isn't clear, you ask.

If state ribbons are disallowed, fine. But they shouldn't be considered candy. They don't come easy like many people think. A lot of CAP awards are given far more freely than any state dec ever will be. I find it amusing how some people talk about how they "earned" a Membership ribbon, but think that military awards are "gimmes".

OK, maybe your the only one who sees the connection with that comment.  Ive been in CAP since I was 13.  Im now 34.  Ive only been a pilot in CAP for the last 2yrs.  So I would say your internet psychic abilities have failed you.  I fly about 50 hrs per month as it is and get paid to do it.  So again, I dont need free flying. If anything, I usually pay or lose pay when I fly for CAP.  Lets not make assupmtions about people we have never met.  Its childish.

[Hawk200]

OK, maybe your the only one who sees the connection with that comment.  Ive been in CAP since I was 13.  Im now 34.  Ive only been a pilot in CAP for the last 2yrs.  So I would say your internet psychic abilities have failed you.  I fly about 50 hrs per month as it is and get paid to do it.  So again, I dont need free flying. If anything, I usually pay or lose pay when I fly for CAP.  Lets not make assupmtions about people we have never met.  Its childish.

You're the one with the anti-military sentiment. Seems to me that those against the military aspect of CAP are "flying club" types. "Give me the keys to the airplane, but keep your uniform and regs".

You have some inconsistencies between your posts. You speak of Law Enforcement awards being appropriate for wear on CAP uniforms:

I have LE ribbons.  I think they would look great on my CAP uniform.

But in the next paragraph, you make an inaccurate statement:

If we bring on NG ribbons, we'll have guys walking around with 50 ribbons. 

Then you throw something in restricting legitimately earned awards that you don't seem to be familiar with:

If your in the guard, wear your federal decorations and your CAP decs and your foreign decs and call it good.

Seems a little inconsistent. It also gives the appearance that if it's to your own benefit, it's good. If it's someone else's (such as the military awards discussed), it's not. I've seen the same thing before from people that suffer from simple envy.

The "Warpig" comment doesn't help. Either you are not familiar with the term's connotations, or you intentionally insulted military personnel. The statement would seem to reinforce that you're against the military aspect of CAP.

My viewpoint is based on what you have posted. References to being "psychic" are childish. Don't want me to form an opinion of you? Don't post. Choice is up to you.

[RiverAux]

I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic about how great his LE ribbons would look on a CAP uniform.

[Hawk200]

I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic about how great his LE ribbons would look on a CAP uniform.

I took it at face value. Probably time for me to forget this thread. There's others that are more informative and less controversial.

[Stonewall]

Seriously, Hawk, I think you did take it to heart a bit much.  Pig was being sarcastic, that's how I took it.  I think we let personal pride get in the way of constructive criticism and individual opinions.

With the exception that you want state ribbons allowed on CAP uniforms and Pig doesn't, I'd say you guys are on the same side.

Now, have a brew and shake hands.

[Flying Pig]

I can assure you I have no anti-military sentiment.  8 yrs as an Infantry machine gunner myself.  I had a 1st Sgt who used to call everyone "War Pig".  I was benig sarcastic about the LE ribbons.

Lets chalk it up as a misunderstanding.

[PHall]

I have 18 years in the ANG and the only "State" ribbons I have are Drill Attendance, Federal Service, State Service, California Service Medal and a California Medal of Merit. And the Medal of Merit should have been an AF Commendation Medal but it got screwed up in Sacramento.
Everything else is Federal.

I would say the vast number of awards given in the ANG are "Federal".

[Stonewall]

Wikipedia has a page about State National Guard Ribbons here.

I remember getting the Virginia Commendation Medal (twice).  Once for deploying to Bosnia (the whole company got it) and then once for soldier of the year.  Funny, I was awarded an Army Achievement Medal for being named Soldier of the Year as well. 

Many of the state awards are back-up awards for federal awards.  If they can't get you a federal commendation, they'll hook you up with a state medal.  Again, these things meant nothing to me.  I didn't even know where to buy them.  In fact, the one gig I got on my uniform during the SOY board was the fact that I didn't have my state awards on my uniform. 

[heliodoc]

Anti military coming from Flying Pig  Doubt that , Hawk 200

I came from the Army Guard and civilian helo and fixed wing MX world and from what I gather Flying Pig has alot to offer like me and my compadres.  It AINT the free flying.  I was flying skydivers before I got back into CAP and thought I might give back

But calling some one anti military just because of the uni issue is just lame.

I have left off ANY of my RM qual off my CAP uniform just 'cuz of the forum  like this...

ANTI military???  RIGHT ....  I came from the RM and ARNG and CAP uniforms and "uniform manual 39-1"  NEEDS a COMPLETE OVERHAUL

anti military enough for ya???

[Eclipse]

I have left off ANY of my RM qual off my CAP uniform just 'cuz of the forum  like this...

Um.  What?

[lordmonar]

With out calling anyone names.......

It is simply that the USAF does not recognise them....not that they are lame or not important but the USAF only recognises federal level awards.

If CAP were to relax and allow NG state awards it COULD open the door to just way too much.  First it is state NG awards, then we get the SDF guys (who often get the same awards) then we get the State Troopers with their awards and then the Fire Department.  And while we are allowing state trooper awards why not the county police or the local PD and FD awards?  Heck I got a national level award from the Boy Scouts....why not that one?

While State NG awards are completely legitmate, as are CGAUX awards, Red Cross and BSA  awards we have to control them somewhere.

So following USAF guidance on this issue seems like a good thing.  NO state awards.

[Prospector]

Yes, getting back to the basic question of the rationale behind not allowing State awards and decs on the CAP uniform -

I think I have been converted to not wearing State awards on the CAP uniform. I only have one State Good Conduct Medal and the rest of my awards are Federal - both are legitimate awards for service in the respective component. I think that the real rationale for the current CAP reg is that the whole awards and decs system is a can of worms. Once you open it up to "Non-Federal" stuff of any kind it is a slippery slope of confusion, finger-pointing, and hand-wringing.

Everyone should be proud of any awards and decs you actually earn for your service and display them proudly on your uniform. It's not a slam on anyone's service for CAP (or the AF) to limit what is worn on their uniforms. To keep to the "most common denomonator" rule, Federal awards are the nationally recognized standard, and CAP awards are for CAP personnel only to show other CAP personnel their achievements and to be recognized within the organization for your service.

For instance, let's say you were a police or fire dept. officer at the WTC on 9-11. You may have earned accolades from all sorts of organizations for your heroics, but the one that is the most prestigious at the moment is the one you earned from your own organization and your peers and that you should wear on your department uniform. Everything else is legitimate, but is for your shadowbox.

I guess what I'm trying to say is; be happy and proud of your own achievments, and if allowed to, wear them on your uniform.

The irony here is that when you were on active-duty, you probably never complained once about wearing this or that, and just followed the regs like everyone else so you wouldn't get hazed or gigged. If CAP says this is what you can wear, then so be it.

If you don't like it and it causes you to dislike your service in CAP, it seems to me that you have two choices, either leave the organization, or promote up to National Commander and make the change yourself. 

Of course, there is the option of just discussing and venting here on the forums and then just letting the issue go.

[RiverAux]

I think a fair compromise would be to allow the wear of state military awards earned by CAP members for CAP service.  There are various examples of CAP members earning various awards from their state for CAP activities.  Its certainly not common, but given how close some CAP Wings are to their state military, it should be an option. 

I'm not passionate about it though. 

[Major Carrales]

I think a fair compromise would be to allow the wear of state military awards earned by CAP members for CAP service.  There are various examples of CAP members earning various awards from their state for CAP activities.  Its certainly not common, but given how close some CAP Wings are to their state military, it should be an option. 

I'm not passionate about it though.

I wholeheartedly agree.  CAP Members who are decorated by a State for service within that state ought to be allowed to wear those awards.  I would, however, be inclined to limit it to decorations (State Gov awards, Commendations and the like).

[Prospector]

I think a fair compromise would be to allow the wear of state military awards earned by CAP members for CAP service.

This should definitely be allowed unless the state's award duplicates one you get from CAP for the same event. In other words, if you are in CAP and CAP awards you something for any service or event, and you get an award from the state for the same event, then the CAP award trumps it and should be worn instead of the state award.

If the state awards you something for a joint event and you were acting as a CAP member representing CAP during the event, and your CAP unit doesn't award you anything for it, then I would say by all means in this case they should allow you to wear the state award.

Cases like this need to be handled by national on a case by case basis and every CAP local unit commander should be on top of things like this to make sure his troops are rewarded appropriately for serving CAP.

What would it look like if say the local AF or Guard unit does a joint exercise or mission with a CAP unit, and afterwards all the participating AF and Guard troops get a unit award for it from their command, and the CAP unit gets nothing from their own command (assuming of course that they did a similar outstanding job)?

[lordmonar]

I think a fair compromise would be to allow the wear of state military awards earned by CAP members for CAP service.  There are various examples of CAP members earning various awards from their state for CAP activities.  Its certainly not common, but given how close some CAP Wings are to their state military, it should be an option. 

I'm not passionate about it though.

I would allow specific exeptions to be allowed by letter from the National HQ...for any award by a supported agency for CAP support.

The RM does the same with foreign awards all the time.  If a country were to issue an award to an American serivcemen then that service can allow the decoration to be worn.  It does not happen often but it does happen.  Look at all the Republic of Vietnam awards that some vets wear for example.

[Cecil DP]

I think a fair compromise would be to allow the wear of state military awards earned by CAP members for CAP service.  There are various examples of CAP members earning various awards from their state for CAP activities.  Its certainly not common, but given how close some CAP Wings are to their state military, it should be an option. 

I'm not passionate about it though.

I would allow specific exeptions to be allowed by letter from the National HQ...for any award by a supported agency for CAP support.

The RM does the same with foreign awards all the time.  If a country were to issue an award to an American serivcemen then that service can allow the decoration to be worn.  It does not happen often but it does happen.  Look at all the Republic of Vietnam awards that some vets wear for example.

Foreign Awards by law have to be approved by a congessional action, the law states that you can accept the award,but that you cannot wear it until that approval is received. As one of those who do have "Vietnamese awards", the Armed forces did get a blanket approval to accept and wear the medals during the war.