Base Access

[wingnut55]

Joe has a point

do you remember the good old days when we would sing" I would rather be Dead than Red".

Spies all looked like Natasha and Boris, and was agent 99 hot or what?

[NCRblues]

Ok you guys get off Joes Back

Anyone interested in going to Fort Irwin to watch anti terrorist combat training. It is open to the public including a base tour for $58.00

http://www.gointhebox.com/index.html

I wonder if the terrorist can find 58 bucks.... hm, anyway the base commander at whiteman approved an ever changing eal system, basiclly if cap wants to come on base call the pass and id people, give them a list, they check you out and you roll on, its not like you can get in, let alone get near a restricted area anyway. Look out Bx and clothing sales, capers are coming!

[Lt Oliv]

Guys, there ia no "Secret Squirrel" stuff about base access. Nothing has been discussed that is not publicly available information.

You can call PASS/ID for any base and get the same information that's been discussed here.  The Pizza guy is usually a military dependant or an E-3 with a night job.  My roomie was one when I was airman. If not, they can easily get put on an EAL. 

Nothing spooky here.  Move along...

Yeah, in the Navy you don't want to get caught delivering pizzas on base as your part-time job.  And while you can ask, I never saw a request to become a pizza guy get approved.  Too much potential for fraternization and disgracing the Navy and such.

Most of the pizza guys in Norfolk are/were regular, plain old civilians who got themselves added to the Access List.  It is worth noting that base access is still pretty useless once past the gate.  All the good stuff requires valid military ID

[Always Ready]

Most of the pizza guys in Norfolk are/were regular, plain old civilians who got themselves added to the Access List.  It is worth noting that base access is still pretty useless once past the gate.  All the good stuff requires valid military ID

Bingo...that's the way it is at most bases. You need your ID for almost everything. At some bases, your ID gets a workout. At others, it's a different story.

Honestly guys, if you are screaming FOUO/OPSEC/COMSEC, then report it. If you think you have witness something, it is your duty to report it. But, I think Google is more of the enemy than we are. Everything that has been said on here thus far can easily obtained and verified via the internet, asking Pass and ID, or asking the guard at any base gate.

[Cecil DP]

Any problems with the bases should be handled through the Wing Director or whatever the former liason offers are called now. In addition almost all AF bases have an officer assigned in an ADY status as the bases's liason for CAP.

[desertengineer1]

Any problems with the bases should be handled through the Wing Director or whatever the former liason offers are called now. In addition almost all AF bases have an officer assigned in an ADY status as the bases's liason for CAP.

Or the CAP POC designated therein.  Being an "O" member of the ANG unit that owns the building, I'm the guy who works out access requirements with our host base.

[Smokey]

Easy does it folks.....

As stated in my original post, the Base OG CC asked me to find out what other bases are doing.  Again if you feel better about PM me, please do as many already have ( AND I THANK YOU).

This issue has come up before on this same base.  Just recently for a mission on base, two CAP officers had no problem using CAP ID. One was made to wait 30 minutes before access was granted after he finally called the OG CC who chewed out the gate guard.

Other issues have included CAP members who are members of the flying club on base.  One day CAP ID is OK, the next day or next guard shift it isn't.   The OG CC was looking for some ideas.

As was pointed out, the Burger King worker and similiar have much less vetting than we do.  We are at least fingerprinted and screeened by squadron members who hopefully use some common sense in allowing folks to join CAP.

As for the comments about restricting access due to CAP members  shoplifting, acting wild,  etc.  Well, SHAME on them.  But I don't see that as a real problem.  How many CAP folks have done that stuff.  It seems a bit overblown.  Besides.....have you read about the stooopid stuff real AF folks have done?!  Some of those 18 year old E1 & 2 (even higher) do real stoopid stuff all the time.  Merely being a AF member does not automatically equal integrity and common sense. (no offense to RM & Kack!)

[BrandonKea]

The first day I went back to my Squadron and was no longer a dependent and not on the EAL, it took approximately 30 minutes for them to run my background before they let me on base, and I was escorted by an two E-5's.

[Eclipse]

Everything that has been said on here thus far can easily obtained and verified via the internet, asking Pass and ID, or asking the guard at any base gate.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean we have to say it, so that when the media does the same Google'ing, CAPTalk is the first link.

It doesn't need to be a violation of anything to be a bad idea to discuss a particular subject.

Part of free speech is know when to keep your mouth shut.

[biomed441]

Other issues have included CAP members who are members of the flying club on base.  One day CAP ID is OK, the next day or next guard shift it isn't.   The OG CC was looking for some ideas.

I've run into this problem a few times myself.  I typically enter through the bases main gate, never had an issue. Though sometimes I try the other gates depending on if they are closer to where I need to get to and its about 50/50. All depending on who the guard is that day.  Some know about CAP and will let you through no hassel, others will sit there for 5 minutes or more (YMMV) while they decided to let you through or not.

There's no rule at our base telling CAP to specifically go through the main gate, but the guards seem a bit more well trained as thats also the gate that visitors are required to go through.  And if you are a visitor, heh then good luck getting in, because you won't. Not unless you are sponsored by someone who works at the base ops center.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I need a little help from some of my fellow CAPTalkers.
The AF base that I am often at (that also has a CAP squadron on base, but I'm not a member of that squadron) is trying to straighten out base access for CAP members.

It seems there are conflicts and the Base Ops Group commander has asked me to find out how other bases handle providing access to bases for CAP members (without a military ID, retired, reserve, etc.) supporting a contingency operations such as search and rescue, going to the clothing store to purchase uniforms, attending CAP meetings on base, etc. We are especially interested in access to AF bases but please include other (Air Guard, Natl Guard, Army, etc).

Any input would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks.

I used to say to the Security Forces that I was just going to the CAP meeting and they would escort me to the hanger where we meet, but now that I have my ID Card I just show them it and they let me through.

[Lt Oliv]

Everything that has been said on here thus far can easily obtained and verified via the internet, asking Pass and ID, or asking the guard at any base gate.

Part of free speech is know when to keep your mouth shut.

And hey, if you chose to exercise that right as well, we would be behind you 100%

[desertengineer1]

Easy does it folks.....

As stated in my original post, the Base OG CC asked me to find out what other bases are doing.  Again if you feel better about PM me, please do as many already have ( AND I THANK YOU).

This issue has come up before on this same base.  Just recently for a mission on base, two CAP officers had no problem using CAP ID. One was made to wait 30 minutes before access was granted after he finally called the OG CC who chewed out the gate guard.

Other issues have included CAP members who are members of the flying club on base.  One day CAP ID is OK, the next day or next guard shift it isn't.   The OG CC was looking for some ideas.

As was pointed out, the Burger King worker and similiar have much less vetting than we do.  We are at least fingerprinted and screeened by squadron members who hopefully use some common sense in allowing folks to join CAP.

As for the comments about restricting access due to CAP members  shoplifting, acting wild,  etc.  Well, SHAME on them.  But I don't see that as a real problem.  How many CAP folks have done that stuff.  It seems a bit overblown.  Besides.....have you read about the stooopid stuff real AF folks have done?!  Some of those 18 year old E1 & 2 (even higher) do real stoopid stuff all the time.  Merely being a AF member does not automatically equal integrity and common sense. (no offense to RM & Kack!)

Smokey, here's my thoughts for you (and no, this isn't spooky - it's just procedure)..

First, the SF squadron may not be actively working the access agreement details to thier shift commanders.  They have a lot of things going on, and CAP might not be on the radar screen.  That's not a bad thing!!!  But if there are issues, they are very easy to fix - in friendly ways...

If there are inconsistancies between what you have worked out with the OG CC and the gate folks, don't fret.  I would make an appointment with the OG CC (Or thier rep), go through the current policy to make sure everything is up to date on what the procedures are (and to get some good face time with them).  Maybe there are new rules that need to be put in place?  If adjustments need to be made, go ahead and work them.  When that's complete, make a stop over to SF, introduce yourself to the CC (or the Asst CC) and see what can be clarified.

That's it.  I'm always amazed by what can be accomplished with a personal, friendly visit, as opposed to squirming about what could be or might be.  The SFS guys will appreciate you taking your time to ask "Hey, we want to be good rule followers for you, what do I need to do?"  (i.e. how can I make your job easier).  The OG will appreciate your proactiveness and the same - and will have a seed planted that "Those CAP folks are a good group"

THAT's how you become one of those folks that make things happen!!! 

Trust me when I say that CAP members are the least of thier concerns.  You wouldn't believe what they have to put up with on a regular basis.

[Lt Oliv]

Other issues have included CAP members who are members of the flying club on base.  One day CAP ID is OK, the next day or next guard shift it isn't.   The OG CC was looking for some ideas.

I've run into this problem a few times myself.  I typically enter through the bases main gate, never had an issue. Though sometimes I try the other gates depending on if they are closer to where I need to get to and its about 50/50. All depending on who the guard is that day.  Some know about CAP and will let you through no hassel, others will sit there for 5 minutes or more (YMMV) while they decided to let you through or not.

There's no rule at our base telling CAP to specifically go through the main gate, but the guards seem a bit more well trained as thats also the gate that visitors are required to go through.  And if you are a visitor, heh then good luck getting in, because you won't. Not unless you are sponsored by someone who works at the base ops center.

Asking every gate to identify you can be a bit tricky, especially since most bases are manned by civilians (who actually managed to care less than the E-3 that used to stand there).  Since most bases have a designated gate for visitors, they are usually a little bit better versed in what is going on. 

So aside from working out your EAL with the host base, you would probably have better luck focusing on accessing a particular gate.  Better to have 100% with one gate than 25% success with 4 gates.

[Smokey]

Well the OG CC is the one who asked me to find out....he is frustrated believe it or not with things.

A couple years ago it straigtened out when a contract guard wanted to arrest me for impersonating a military officer ( I was in a flight suit with CAP photo ID- my base ID expired the week before). The base Gen (Maj Gen) straightened things out for a while.    New folks now including new DOD police gate guards.  Since then it has been hit & miss.  A talk with a security forces master sergeant ended with him sighing and shaking his head about the DOD gate guards. 

That's why the OG CC wants to see what's happening elsewhere to see how he can set up a reasonable policy.

[Lt Oliv]

Can you talk to the DoD Guards? Surely they have some form of a Chain of Command (besides their union rep).

[desertengineer1]

Everything that has been said on here thus far can easily obtained and verified via the internet, asking Pass and ID, or asking the guard at any base gate.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean we have to say it, so that when the media does the same Google'ing, CAPTalk is the first link.

It doesn't need to be a violation of anything to be a bad idea to discuss a particular subject.

Part of free speech is know when to keep your mouth shut.

So we spend more time complaining than actually solving problems? 

(RANT)

When you think you are qualified to armchair my job, stop by my office and I'll turn over the USM and OPSEC Officer keys to you.  I'm telling you this is basic procedure that I work with every day.  My signatures go on the EAL and the base MOU which are posted on the wall for all to see - with the procedures.  Only been doing it for 20 years now.

Maybe if some folks spent less time complaining about OPSEC and actually get involved with understanding it (i.e. have you read AFI 10-701?), we wouldn't be having this misunderstanding.

[Smokey]

Please folks...Don't start getting into a urinating match over this. 
I don't want to see this locked as I need real answers on how other bases handle it, not an arguement over whether we should have free access or other issues.

Please assist me in the endeavor that the base OG CC tasked me with.   Again, please feel free to PM. 

THis may end up assisting all of us in the long run.   I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Rotorhead]

Everything that has been said on here thus far can easily obtained and verified via the internet, asking Pass and ID, or asking the guard at any base gate.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean we have to say it, so that when the media does the same Google'ing, CAPTalk is the first link.

It doesn't need to be a violation of anything to be a bad idea to discuss a particular subject.

Part of free speech is know when to keep your mouth shut.

Yes, and this is not one of those times.

Honestly, some people think everything is a secret.

This isn't.

[Ned]

Being retired military with an appropriate ID card, I DO NOT feel that CAP members should get access to a military base at all times & restrictions should be in place that all members understand & comply with.

I am also a retired military guy with a card, and I am far more comfortable with CAP members having access than most dependants.

I did a fair amount of time as the MP duty officer and we dealt with countless dependants who had difficulty behaving themselves but never once dealt with improper actions by a CAP member.

After all, CAP seniors undergo a fingerprint check - something never requred of dependants.  And CAP members, at least, are providing valuable volunteer services for America.

Of course neither CAP members nor dependants should be just wandering around areas of bases where they have no lawful business.

But CAP members are no less trustworthy than many other classes of persons granted base access.

Ned Lee