Epaulets...whats the truth?

[Rotorhead]

This is what we get with so many uniform combinations, ever-changing regulations and interim letters, and not much training for SMs.

There is much better guidance for NOAA (http://www.corpscpc.noaa.gov/perservices/pdf/NC_ODU_How_to_wear.pdf) and USCG Aux (http://a054.uscgaux.info/News%20and%20Information/Document%20Archives/2007%20Raleigh%20District%20Conference/Uniform%20-%20ODU.pdf).

These PowerPoints assume the members know nothing. Since that's what we see in a lot of new SMs, why can't NHQ be this specific?

[Eclipse]

These PowerPoints assume the members know nothing. Since that's what we see in a lot of new SMs, why can't NHQ be this specific?

They are, but also depend on the Unit CC's to have or establish a baseline level of knowledge and actually enforce our regs.

[Lt Oliv]

These PowerPoints assume the members know nothing. Since that's what we see in a lot of new SMs, why can't NHQ be this specific?

They are, but also depend on the Unit CC's to have or establish a baseline level of knowledge and actually enforce our regs.

This is very true.  However, I can see how it would be difficult to track every single change to the 39-1.  After reading the regulation, you then have to sort through a series of Change Letters, since the 39-1 does not mention the Corporate Uniform among other changes.

Pile on the ambiguities that exist throughout CAP Regs and couple that with additional command responsibility, and I'd say you have a recipe for misinterpretation. 

I think the responsibility lies with NHQ AND with local Commanders.

[LtCol057]

Going back to Ollie's question, the nametag with the grade insignia is for use on the blazer.  At one time, it could be worn on a white shirt without epaulets, but IIRC, that combination was recently retired with the most current M39-1 (Mar 05).

I'm glad I looked it up, because I just realized that the regimental tie is no longer authorized for the white/gray uniform, just the blazer combo. 

[Eclipse]

I guess the definition of "recent" is subjective - I don't consider something that happened 4+ years ago "recent", and that's just the publish date.

The nameplate and regimental tie changes happened in the very early '00's.

[LtCol057]

Considering that I've found some forms and regs that were published in the early 70's that are still in use, I consider 4 years ago "recent".

[Lt Oliv]

Going back to Ollie's question, the nametag with the grade insignia is for use on the blazer.  At one time, it could be worn on a white shirt without epaulets, but IIRC, that combination was recently retired with the most current M39-1 (Mar 05).

I'm glad I looked it up, because I just realized that the regimental tie is no longer authorized for the white/gray uniform, just the blazer combo.

Excellent, so it once was authorized and now is not.  That is a lot different from someone "making up their own reg."  And it only mentions the elimination of the blazer nametag with the aviator shirt in the summary.  I'm sure many people simply go right to the section they are concerned with and glance right over it (like I've been doing). 

A very confusing read, especially compared to military uniform regulations.  All we can do is our best with what we have.

[PHall]

A very confusing read, especially compared to military uniform regulations.  All we can do is our best with what we have.

AFI 36-2903 isn't exactly crystal clear either, or even up to date.
There is no mention of the ABU in the reg currently. You have to check the IMC's and various messages to get current info.

Gee, just like CAP!

[DBlair]

I'm confused as to why a SMWOG would not wear the grey shoulder marks/epaulets without grade? Like a C/AB, they wear 'CAP' as their grade, cloth 'CAP' on BDUs which distinguishes them from Cadets, and so wouldn't the shoulder marks/epaulets without grade be suited for SMWOG as the grey epaulets signify SM and the insignia being just 'CAP' would signify being SMWOG. Please explain why a SMWOG cannot wear these 'blank' SM epaulets?

[Eclipse]

Please explain why a SMWOG cannot wear these 'blank' SM epaulets?

Because 39-1 says to wear the cutout on the collar, why does anyone need more "explanation" than that?

However, if you need more that that, it also looks ridiculous.

[DC]

I'm confused as to why a SMWOG would not wear the grey shoulder marks/epaulets without grade? Like a C/AB, they wear 'CAP' as their grade, cloth 'CAP' on BDUs which distinguishes them from Cadets, and so wouldn't the shoulder marks/epaulets without grade be suited for SMWOG as the grey epaulets signify SM and the insignia being just 'CAP' would signify being SMWOG. Please explain why a SMWOG cannot wear these 'blank' SM epaulets?

Because 39-1 says so. SMWOG still have gray nametapes to distinguish them from cadets, who wear blue ones.

[DBlair]

If the 39-1 specifically says this about blues, than I guess I was wrong. That being said, I think the blank epaulets are a much better idea for SMWOG than the cutouts worn by C/AB. Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding SMWOG specifics as I never had to deal with that issue, but it appears there are a lot of areas needing to be clarified as it often seems to be an area of confusion.

[DC]

If the 39-1 specifically says this about blues, than I guess I was wrong. That being said, I think the blank epaulets are a much better idea for SMWOG than the cutouts worn by C/AB. Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding SMWOG specifics as I never had to deal with that issue, but it appears there are a lot of areas needing to be clarified as it often seems to be an area of confusion.

Epaulets are used to indicate the grade of the person wearing them, since by definition Senior Members Without Grade have no grade, a uniform item to identify their grade is absolutely pointless, as they don't have one to identify. CAP cutouts on the collar are just as good of an indicator as anything, and like I pointed out, they have a gray nameplate to separate them from the cadets.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

[biomed441]

A bit of an update on the situation.  The competition contined as scheduled and some AF personnel with CAP experience conducted the inspections. The cadets all looked amazing btw, so if you are a member of the SWR, you can be certain the cadets represented our region very very well.

As for me, I continued to wear my uniform according to what 39-1 said. Like I said before, I'm what some call a "uniform nazi" and actually have read the entire 39-1 as well as the memorandums that accompany it. So I hope some of those previous comments about people not reading the 39-1 were not directed at me.

Anyways, that being said, I ask questions when I myself get questioned on my uniform. And when the one that questions me is a Major, eh I have to wonder if maybe I overlooked something. 

Also I'll have to agree that maybe the SMWOG grade should be wearing the grey epaulets, mainly because I've been confused for being a cadet several times in the last few months alone. I'm 21 so am pretty close to their age group.  Sadly there are some that just dont seem to take notice of the grey nametag and silver on the flight cap.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Please explain why a SMWOG cannot wear these 'blank' SM epaulets?

Because 39-1 says to wear the cutout on the collar, why does anyone need more "explanation" than that?

However, if you need more that that, it also looks ridiculous.

Well... The ridiculous appearance of a uniform item does not mean that it is NOT required under 39-1.  Witness:  The refusal of the NB to authorize dark blue nametapes for the Blue BDU.  The result is that brand-new uniforms look like you put old, faded patches on them.

[BillB]

If you are a SMWOG, why are you wearing a flight cap with silver braid?

[Eclipse]

Please explain why a SMWOG cannot wear these 'blank' SM epaulets?

Because 39-1 says to wear the cutout on the collar, why does anyone need more "explanation" than that?

However, if you need more that that, it also looks ridiculous.

Well... The ridiculous appearance of a uniform item does not mean that it is NOT required under 39-1.  Witness:  The refusal of the NB to authorize dark blue nametapes for the Blue BDU.  The result is that brand-new uniforms look like you put old, faded patches on them.

Sadly, you're more than correct.

I've actually taken to carrying pages from 39-1 as "reinforcement", though generally I don't need any.
You guys catch me once in a while, but generally the people in my AOR are hard-pressed to find something I'm not up on.

One situation, for example, was the first time I wore the senior semi-formal (blazer, dress shirt, crest w/ no nametag and one medal).  It was probably the first time in my wing anyone had worn it - I certainly got asked about it several times.

I just keep the page folded in the inside pocket for giggles.

[biomed441]

If you are a SMWOG, why are you wearing a flight cap with silver braid?

Because 39-1 says so.  Actually i believe it says blue and silver braid. I made a poor assumption that everyone knew what I meant when I said silver braid. I'm not refereing to the full silver braid such as what general officers wear.

39-1 ref pg 41 note 2

[MIKE]

^ Thats not what it says for SMs without grade.

... Cap has dark-blue colored edge braid for cadets, senior member NCOs, Airmen and senior members without grade; ...

[biomed441]

^ Ah I see. Referenced the wrong thing. Thanks for pointing that out.  Goes to show that even people who have read the 39-1 can still overlook things. Anyways i'll be sure to fix that whenever I get the chance.