Cadet Command Voice

[GoofyOne]

As a new DCC I would like to know if anyone has held back a cadet for promotion with an emphasis on improving one's command voice. Other reasons too but a definate emphasis.

In the past it has been done under other DCC's in our squadron.  I find it difficult to expect a female to get a barrell chested voice at the age of 14 or 15 especially when they have a female range voice.  The same can be said about prepubescent males who find it difficult to hit the low range.

Nowhere in the regs can I find this as a reason to hold a cadet back.  Obviously there can and are other reasons but when the DCC or CC expects by the next promotion board for this to show improvment I think is an unrealistic expectation.

[BrandonKea]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

[Eclipse]

Define "command voice".

You seem to insinuate it needs to be loud and/or baritone.

It only needs to be heard and direct.  Something most females have little issue with when necessary.

[GoofyOne]

Define "command voice".

You seem to insinuate it needs to be loud and/or baritone.

It only needs to be heard and direct.  Something most females have little issue with when necessary.

Ahh..you have hit it.  Loud and deep it what it appears others are looking for.

The problem is...a pipsqueeks version of loud and deep is different to a youth who might be larger in build or have the lower toned voice.

I see command voice as one being heard and showing confidence in the command not that it has to be heard in the next room or across the drill pad.

[Always Ready]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+1 When a cadet is drilling a flight, there are two things I look for (regardless of gender, age, race, etc.): 1. Can everyone in the flight hear them? 2. Are they using the commands properly? If the answers to those questions are 'yes', then pay no attention to it. Now if the answer was 'no' to either question, then the only solution is practice. It takes time to learn how to drill a flight.

Although, I do enjoy it when the cadet's voice echoes off of buildings.

It only needs to be heard and direct.  Something most females have little issue with when necessary.

So true...my 11 year old sister has no trouble giving anyone in my family commands. We can hear her extremely well, even with two floors between us. Now that I think about it, none of my ex-girlfriends had a problem with this either. 

[notaNCO forever]

 I don't see this as a valid reason to hold someone back. As long as a cadet is capable of speaking loudly and clearly enough to be heard than; it's not a problem.

[USADOD]

I believe what are you stating is the cadet carries a low tone or shows a lack of self-confidence, while it may debated a  valid reason to withhold advancement with some squadron standards its is definitely a issue worth counseling. A command voice can simply be at any tone as long as the subordinate understands the command and execute it as such.

[CadetProgramGuy]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+2.  Tell me (show me via regs....) where command presence is a promotable item.

[USADOD]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+2.  Tell me (show me via regs....) where command presence is a promotable item.

-1, Squadron(s) may choose to install a squadron level operating procedure to assist in their mission of the cadet program.

Paragraph 2-4c below of   CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management

Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with a promotion. The unit commander has the responsibility to certify that a cadet is capable of accepting increased responsibility before authorizing a promotion.

CC/DCC regulates additional promotion criteria, while national regulations set mandatory requirements and he/she may execute said authority in compliance with said  CAPR 52-16.

[BrandonKea]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+2.  Tell me (show me via regs....) where command presence is a promotable item.

-1, Squadron(s) may choose to install a squadron level operating procedure to assist in their mission of the cadet program.

Paragraph 2-4c below of   CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management

Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with a promotion. The unit commander has the responsibility to certify that a cadet is capable of accepting increased responsibility before authorizing a promotion.

CC/DCC regulates additional promotion criteria, while national regulations set mandatory requirements and he/she may execute said authority in compliance with said  CAPR 52-16.

-5
Nothing about command voice has anything to do with responsibility. Now, as stated, if the cadet has no idea how to drill a flight, that may be an issue DEPENDING ON THE ACHIEVEMENT, but there's no reason that a quiet cadet, or an extra loud cadet, should be held back from promotion.

[CadetProgramGuy]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+2.  Tell me (show me via regs....) where command presence is a promotable item.

-1, Squadron(s) may choose to install a squadron level operating procedure to assist in their mission of the cadet program.

Paragraph 2-4c below of   CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management

Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with a promotion. The unit commander has the responsibility to certify that a cadet is capable of accepting increased responsibility before authorizing a promotion.

CC/DCC regulates additional promotion criteria, while national regulations set mandatory requirements and he/she may execute said authority in compliance with said  CAPR 52-16.

Still doesn't tell me where command voice is a promotion withholdable (is that even a word?)

[USADOD]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+2.  Tell me (show me via regs....) where command presence is a promotable item.

-1, Squadron(s) may choose to install a squadron level operating procedure to assist in their mission of the cadet program.

Paragraph 2-4c below of   CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management

Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with a promotion. The unit commander has the responsibility to certify that a cadet is capable of accepting increased responsibility before authorizing a promotion.

CC/DCC regulates additional promotion criteria, while national regulations set mandatory requirements and he/she may execute said authority in compliance with said  CAPR 52-16.

-5
Nothing about command voice has anything to do with responsibility. Now, as stated, if the cadet has no idea how to drill a flight, that may be an issue DEPENDING ON THE ACHIEVEMENT, but there's no reason that a quiet cadet, or an extra loud cadet, should be held back from promotion.

+3 I like the point system. :clap:

True, not a responsibility factor but certainly a performance issue if the CC and/or DCC believe that is a factor in promotions. What regulation governs such a affair? or is it the the discretion of the approving authority.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Point total = 0 (even stevens)

While I do not agree that Command Voice can hold a promotion, I agree that it is a counseling item within the review board.

[BrandonKea]

No, and to do so is ridiculous...

+2.  Tell me (show me via regs....) where command presence is a promotable item.

-1, Squadron(s) may choose to install a squadron level operating procedure to assist in their mission of the cadet program.

Paragraph 2-4c below of   CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management

Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with a promotion. The unit commander has the responsibility to certify that a cadet is capable of accepting increased responsibility before authorizing a promotion.

CC/DCC regulates additional promotion criteria, while national regulations set mandatory requirements and he/she may execute said authority in compliance with said  CAPR 52-16.

-5
Nothing about command voice has anything to do with responsibility. Now, as stated, if the cadet has no idea how to drill a flight, that may be an issue DEPENDING ON THE ACHIEVEMENT, but there's no reason that a quiet cadet, or an extra loud cadet, should be held back from promotion.

+3 I like the point system. :clap:

True, not a responsibility factor but certainly a performance issue if the CC and/or DCC believe that is a factor in promotions. What regulation governs such a affair? or is it the the discretion of the approving authority.

I would think 52-16 is the sole authority on this. This whole argument is moot based on the fact that an improving cadet should not be held back because they aren't loud enough (which is what I got from the initial question).

[USADOD]

Fair enough, just working on my debate skills. I know, I know they could use a little tuning lol

[SarDragon]

Sadly, I have been afflicted with a bit of "chipmunk voice". It has had some social effects through the years, but, on the plus side, never affected my ability to drill a flight, or be an instructor in the Navy. It's all in how you use your assets.

If the cadet gets the message across in an appropriate manner, there's no reason to withhold a promotion.

[USADOD]

I think we can all agree that a command voice in lame-er terms can be defined as a clear, confident voice which can clearly be understood by the unit in which the commander is commanding.

Leaders come in all years, makes and models.

Hooah

[Nathan]

I'm not going to lie, I very, VERY rarely used my "command voice" past C/MSgt. I stopped drilling flights around C/2d Lt, and for the most part found that delegating authority to my subordinates was a much, much more effective way of ensuring my orders were carried out than saying something in a "command voice."

In fact, the only times that I have used such a voice in recent memory was as a cadet commander of an encampment, and only then when I needed to address the entire encampment in formation at the beginning and end of every day.

Forcing cadets to perfect their "command voice" before promotion is, in my opinion, forcing them to perfect a skill that really doesn't need to be used as they progress higher and higher in the program. Sure, it's definitely a useful trick to know, but there are far, far more important skills that cadets should be working on.

[MIKE]

Is it even addressed anywhere in L2K: AB as a training objective like the other drill portions are/were?

[heliodoc]

Refer to AFMAN 36-2203

Refers to"loud enough fro everyone to hear"

Mentions areas of voice inflection , etc

NO where does anything mention where "command voice" is a promotable deal

Better just stick with th D&C, 52-16 ansd every other "tool" CAP has.  To eval someone on their voice with other criteria going on, indicates to me, too much time on folks hands.

Never saw it on any cadet promo board

[USADOD]

well this is what the U.S. Army has to say

The loudness of a command is adjusted to the number of soldiers in the unit. Normally, the commander is to the front and center of the unit and speaks facing the unit so that his voice reaches everyone.

a. The voice must have carrying power, but excessive exertion is unnecessary and harmful. A typical result of trying too hard is the almost unconscious tightening of the neck muscles to force sound out. This produces strain, hoarseness, sore throat, and worst of all, indistinct and jumbled sounds instead of clear commands. Ease is achieved through good posture, proper breathing, correct adjustment of throat and mouth muscles, and confidence.

b. The best posture for giving commands is the position of Attention. Soldiers in formation notice the posture of their leader. If his posture is unmilitary (relaxed, slouched, stiff, or uneasy), the subordinates will imitate it.

c. The most important muscle used in breathing is the diaphragm—the large muscle that separates the chest cavity from the abdominal cavity. The diaphragm automatically controls normal breathing and is used to control the breath in giving commands.

d. The throat, mouth, and nose act as amplifiers and help to give fullness (resonance) and projection to the voice.


In my opinion, the reality of it is that people whom project their voice with confidence, loudness and clarity are looked upon favorably. I certainly was by my Command Sergeant Major. Personally as the DCC I will not judge a cadet based on their ability to broadcast their voice to a Wing when they are only supposed to be speaking to a flight. But I certainly encourage them to be more confident with their command voice. Roll the "Marine Corps Drill Instructor" video again ... ...

Now I leave you with a short cadence lol

Sitting around with no where to go, you talking to jane you talking to joe, then a recruiter came to me...say what you want to be

[Spike]

Project, don't shout!

Watch an infomercial and you will see how the pitch man projects what he is saying, without having to shout.

[notaNCO forever]

Project, don't shout!

Watch an infomercial and you will see how the pitch man projects what he is saying, without having to shout.

Maybe we need Billy Mays to instruct us on how to do it .

[Rotorhead]

Project, don't shout!

Watch an infomercial and you will see how the pitch man projects what he is saying, without having to shout.

Maybe we need Billy Mays to instruct us on how to do it .

Hi, Billy Mays here for Civil Air Patrol!

[Always Ready]

Project, don't shout!

Watch an infomercial and you will see how the pitch man projects what he is saying, without having to shout.

Maybe we need Billy Mays to instruct us on how to do it .

Hi, Billy Mays here for Civil Air Patrol!

Imagine the number of people who would join if he did a infomercial on us...

[DC]

Project, don't shout!

Watch an infomercial and you will see how the pitch man projects what he is saying, without having to shout.

Maybe we need Billy Mays to instruct us on how to do it .

Hi, Billy Mays here for Civil Air Patrol!

Imagine the number of people who would join if he did a infomercial on us...

It would probably be a better investment than sponsoring a racecar...

[BrandonKea]

It would probably be a better investment than sponsoring a racecar...

Everyone always bashes the racecar... lol

[CadetProgramGuy]

It would probably be a better investment than sponsoring a racecar...

Everyone always bashes the racecar... lol

and not just in the race either......

[biomed441]

Perhaps when our car starts winning, people might start appreciating it.  Otherwise, billy would be a much wiser investment.  And he can teach our cadets how to project their voices properly at the same time!

[BrandonKea]

Perhaps when our car starts winning...

Hard to do, there is no more car :-(

[Rotorhead]

It would probably be a better investment than sponsoring a racecar...

Everyone always bashes the racecar... lol

It was a poor investment.

As a recruiting tool, an agency has to sponsor a car for a long period of time, as well as buy other media and do in-person recruiting, for the car sponsorship to work effectively.

Just slapping CAP decals on a racecar was never going to improve recruitment; it was like throwing money away.

..and I'm a NASCAR fan.