Potential for outcry over required weigh-ins

[RiverAux]

Okay, it is pretty clear according to several discussions we've had here in 2006 and 2007 (search "weigh in") that squadron commanders can require weigh-ins of those who choose to wear the AF-style uniform either on a routine basis for everyone, or if they suspect someone is not in compliance. 

However, I don't recall ever even hearing of this being done, so I'm curious as to what you think the reaction would be in your unit if the squadron commander wanted to do weigh-ins, every 3 months for example.

Do you think the reaction of members would be different in an established unit vs one that was just starting up where this could be the policy from the very beginning?

[DC]

Okay, it is pretty clear according to several discussions we've had here in 2006 and 2007 (search "weigh in") that squadron commanders can require weigh-ins of those who choose to wear the AF-style uniform either on a routine basis for everyone, or if they suspect someone is not in compliance. 

However, I don't recall ever even hearing of this being done, so I'm curious as to what you think the reaction would be in your unit if the squadron commander wanted to do weigh-ins, every 3 months for example.

Do you think the reaction of members would be different in an established unit vs one that was just starting up where this could be the policy from the very beginning?

This is Civil Air Patrol, not WeightWatchers. It is usually pretty obvious when someone should not be in an AF style uniform, the breaking out of scales and arguing over a few pounds is rediculous and petty. It also seems to me that this would be a colossal waste of valuable meeting time that might otherwise be spent on worthwhile training.

Members need to be responsible enough to admit they are too heavy and SQ CCs need to not be afraid to tell someone they exceed the standards, but there is no need for mass weigh ins.

[Eclipse]

If you're talking about having everyone step up to a scale in front of the class, no. 

If you're talking about a direct, private, conversation of "I don't think you're in weight, and I'd like you to either stop wearing USAF combos or show me you're in reg." I wouldn't have a specific issue with it, but be prepared for the backlash.

[RiverAux]

For the sake of this discussion what I am talking about would be weigh-ins conducted in private (not in front of the whole class) of everyone in the unit who wears, or wants to wear the AF-style uniform.

And for the sake of this discussion I would say that it would have to be everyone because if you just start selectively picking out people, you're going to get more problems than making sure everyone is following the requirements.

And for the poll, I'm not asking whether you think it would be a good idea or not (there are other threads for that), but what do you think would be the reaction of most people in your unit as best as you can guess.

[RickFranz]

What I have done in the past is to show new members CAPM 39-1.  The last page or two and show them the weight standard.  Most will look at it and tell me something like I have not been that skinny since I was in High School.  Then I show them the Corp. Uniforms and help them find something they can wear.  If they can make the weight I show them the Supply of Air Force Uniforms.

[RiverAux]

That is definetely the right approach for potential and new senior members. 

[jimmydeanno]

What I have done in the past is to show new members CAPM 39-1.  The last page or two and show them the weight standard.  Most will look at it and tell me something like I have not been that skinny since I was in High School.  Then I show them the Corp. Uniforms and help them find something they can wear.  If they can make the weight I show them the Supply of Air Force Uniforms.

*DING* *DING* *DING* We have a winner!   :clap:

[Stonewall]

It would be a non-issue in my squadron because only two seniors wear AF style uniforms, me and the CC and we're both Air Guard.  Everyone else wears some variation of polo shirts.

[Ned]

To quote myself:

As one of the few commanders who has actually conducted a mandatory weigh-in, let me share our experiences.

I am the activity director for a high-profile NCSA, and saw a problem at another NCSA last year.  At that activity, an >18 member appeared with only USAF-style uniforms and was 25+ lbs outside the allowable weight, and did not have the funds to purchase a coporate-style uniform (which are not cheap, BTW).

IOW, that member arrived at the activity as a sort of fait accompli, unable to wear their uniform and with no alternatives available.  It was a . . . problem.

So for my activity, I resolved to prevent the problem while doing my best to maintain the dignity of all our members.

1.  The fact that there would be a weigh-in was publicized well ahead of the activity, along with the information that all members were welcome regardless of size, and this was just a matter of ensuring that everyone was wearing the appropriate uniform.

2.  Everyone 18 and older who wanted to wear the USAF-style uniforms was weighed, starting with me.  Cadets under 18, and members who chose to wear only corporate-style uniforms were not weighed.

3.  Each weigh-in was done privately, with only me (or a designated female senior) and the member present.  The scale was calibrated in the presence of the member.

4.  We had a copy of the 39-1 available for reference.

5.  An allowance was given for the weight of clothing worn.


Overall, after some initial concern that was raised after the first announcement, the process went well.  One member did not meet the standards for wearing the USAF-style uniforms, and was taken to a local mall to purchase corporate uniform components (shirt, slacks, blazer.)  I had taken the precaution have having several sets of blazer uniform insignia available (although the nameplate did not have the member's name.)

The feedback from the members was positive, with the exception of the member who had to wear the corporate uniform.  He/she indicated that the local commanders -- including the home wing commander -- were aware of the situation and had always been "OK" with the member wearing the USAF-style uniform despite being outside the allowable weight range.

I would welcome any suggestions as to how to improve our process for next year.

Ned Lee

[RiverAux]

Hmm, not the armageddon predicted by many of those who have responded to the poll so far. 

[notaNCO forever]

 I don't see much of a problem unless it is done in a mean derogatory way.

[O-Rex]

My hats off to the unit that is absolutely so caught up with all aspects of their missions and admin that they can chase this windmill . . .

Stay tuned for CAP urinalysis testing at a squadron near you!

[Hawk200]

My hats off to the unit that is absolutely so caught up with all aspects of their missions and admin that they can chase this windmill . . .

Stay tuned for CAP urinalysis testing at a squadron near you!

Kinda makes it sound like it's OK to ignore some rules as long as we're making mission. Is that what you're saying, or just what it looks like?

If that's what you're saying, then it's a wrong outlook. If that's just what it looks like, then I invite you to clarify. For my own benefit, of course.

[Westernslope]

Do you recommend that Wing, Region and National Staff members, who should be setting the example for all of us, be weighed as well? 

Sometimes it is hard to hold members to a higher standard than those who are higher up in the organization.

[Spike]

Do you recommend that Wing, Region and National Staff members, who should be setting the example for all of us, be weighed as well? 

Like a certain Female Commander of the National Level HQ persuasion??  Or how about a former National "nameless" figure?

When they can set examples.......then we shall enforce??

[PHall]

Do you recommend that Wing, Region and National Staff members, who should be setting the example for all of us, be weighed as well? 

Like a certain Female Commander of the National Level HQ persuasion??  Or how about a former National "nameless" figure?

When they can set examples.......then we shall enforce??

Oh, you actually know their actual height and weights?

If you don't, then how do you know they are in violation of the regs?

[Spike]

^ Yes I do. 

[lordmonar]

The AF does not really care,  I don't really care, and as a  former squadron commander I got a lot more important things to worry about.

[RiverAux]

Okay, the consensus seems to be that required weigh-ins would cause some severe problems withn the unit.  Why would that be the case?  We expect people to prove just about every other CAP qualification they have with some sort of paperwork for which they had to demonstrate some knowledge or skill. 

Why would they be offended if we required that they prove that they following the regulations in regards to the weight limits?  There is no essential difference between that and demanding to see someone's 101 card when they check in on a mission.  We don't just take their word for it that they're current and qualified to do a particular job at that very specific point in time. 

Heck, we make the pilots prove every single year that they need to know how to fly a plane safely and you know how much every pilot just loves having their skills questioned. 

[DC]

Okay, the consensus seems to be that required weigh-ins would cause some severe problems withn the unit.  Why would that be the case?  We expect people to prove just about every other CAP qualification they have with some sort of paperwork for which they had to demonstrate some knowledge or skill. 

Why would they be offended if we required that they prove that they following the regulations in regards to the weight limits?  There is no essential difference between that and demanding to see someone's 101 card when they check in on a mission.  We don't just take their word for it that they're current and qualified to do a particular job at that very specific point in time. 

Heck, we make the pilots prove every single year that they need to know how to fly a plane safely and you know how much every pilot just loves having their skills questioned.

Viewed abstractly you're right, however being lined up to weigh in will elicit a much more 'personal' feeling (most likely offense) than taking a required checkride. It could be because proving your skill at controlling an airplane is an accepted and understood part of being a pilot, getting on a scale to prove you are worthy of wearing a particular set of clothes is demeaning, even if you meet the standards.

Additionally, this becomes one more thing a squadron has to do, track and measure, wasting time, and if the poll is any indication, royally [irritating] some members off.