Separate Organizations

[DG]

It is the same way I was taught to flight instruct.

When I first meet up with a new flying student, I ask why they are learning how to fly.  Some are doing it to become airline pilots.  So we learn to use the rudder to make sure people don't spill their drinks. 

Have you taught or talked to an airline pilot(s).

They don't use the rudder.  And if they did, it is then that the drinks would spill.

"Balls are for boys."

[flyguy06]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.


I disagree with this. The AIr Force does need CAP. Its the USAF's responsibility for Inland SAR. They dont have the time nor the resources to goaroiund loking for every little ELT or every little lost civil aircraft. Thats where CAP comes into play. We provide relief for the USAF in the mission.

As far as seperate organizations. I disagree with that . The assumption here is that the cadet programis not a part of our USAF mission and I think that is a wrong attitude. The cadet programis supposed to be building the future officer corps of the USAF similar to what AFJROTC does. You dont see the USAF getting rid of JROTC do you? No. In fact their is an entire AF Command dedicated to administrating the AFJROTC program. thats how serious they take it.

The problem is WE dont take the cadte progeam that seriously. WE allow the "soccer mom" attitude to prevail instead of treating the cadet program as it should be treated. AN Authentic leadership program. WE allow the "boy scout" mentality. That mentalitiy is nto what the USAF had in mind when it created the cadet program.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

[Eclipse]

This would be an excellent way to kill CAP.

I know in my AOR, a lot of members who are leaders in the organization are involved primarily for ES, however they consider involvement in the CP a huge benefit.  Having to make a choice would mean losing that person as an asset on one side or the other, likely the CP side (at least for those I know), however many would choose CP.

Many of our major activities like flight encampments, etc., rely on ES-pilots who support these as well and would be unavailable in your plan.  The encampment I run is staffed primarily with members who are fully-engaged in ES and would have a hard time giving that up.

Also, would you out-and-out ban a member of CAP-CP from being a member of CAP-ES?  If so, how?  And if not, you're likely making things worse, as the reporting structures would get even more muddled, as would funding, etc.

Let's also look at commanders - they are hard enough to find today, assuming none of the above were true, where are you going to find double the unit CC's over night to split things up?

CAP's operational role is a huge part of the experience for many members and a big recruting benefit.  Without it we become something "other" and may well not compare favorably to similar organizations that we compete for members with.

[RiverAux]

While I'm not in favor of this idea, the flying AF Aux could still do o-rides for the cadet CAP.  After all, we're giving o-rides to AFJROTC cadets. 

[JayT]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.


I disagree with this. The AIr Force does need CAP. Its the USAF's responsibility for Inland SAR. They dont have the time nor the resources to goaroiund loking for every little ELT or every little lost civil aircraft. Thats where CAP comes into play. We provide relief for the USAF in the mission.

As far as seperate organizations. I disagree with that . The assumption here is that the cadet programis not a part of our USAF mission and I think that is a wrong attitude. The cadet programis supposed to be building the future officer corps of the USAF similar to what AFJROTC does. You dont see the USAF getting rid of JROTC do you? No. In fact their is an entire AF Command dedicated to administrating the AFJROTC program. thats how serious they take it.

The problem is WE dont take the cadte progeam that seriously. WE allow the "soccer mom" attitude to prevail instead of treating the cadet program as it should be treated. AN Authentic leadership program. WE allow the "boy scout" mentality. That mentalitiy is nto what the USAF had in mind when it created the cadet program.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

Not entirely sure what you managed to do there with the post but......

I know that the Air Force is dedicated to Inland SAR, but if CAP went away, local assists and teams could pick the slack up eventually, and in the case of police, fire, and EMS services, would love the additional funding. (Not that we're not the best at it, but still)

I don't know if the 'soccer' mom officer mentality is as wide spread as people are acting.

[notaNCO forever]

I don't know if the 'soccer' mom officer mentality is as wide spread as people are acting.

Even if it is as long as they are being productive and not hindering the program it is a good thing. I don't care if you are a 90 year old grandmother if you benefit the program in any it's a good thing to have them.

[O-Rex]

This concept has been beaten to death both on previous CAPTalk threads and at countless late-night eating establishments across the nation.

Three missions, 50K members, period. 

If we can't collectively multi-task, we are in the wrong business.

[PA Guy]

While I'm not in favor of this idea, the flying AF Aux could still do o-rides for the cadet CAP.  After all, we're giving o-rides to AFJROTC cadets.

How about we make that the cadet AF Aux and the flying CAP    Sorry, couldn't resist it's been a slow day.

[Eclipse]

I don't know if the 'soccer' mom officer mentality is as wide spread as people are acting.

Even if it is as long as they are being productive and not hindering the program it is a good thing.

I would hazard a guess that if they were being an asset, they wouldn't be referred to as "soccer mom".
Remember, all membership is at the pleasure of the CC, if they are being a PITA, suggest they adjust their focus and/or move elsewhere.