TIGERSTRIKE DF Unit

SE_Tigerstrike · March 23, 2009, 03:45:45 PM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 23, 2009, 02:19:47 PM
Out of curiosity, how easy is it to integrate the data transmission features with the mapping software, etc? Will/does the manual cover the setup?

Since it's a major feature of the unit, I expect the manual will cover doing it. I don't have the topo software myself, so I can't test that. Also, mine being a prototype, I didn't get a manual with it, but as I said before, haven't really needed one, everything on the TigerStrike just makes sense. Even putting it together is simple, there's really only one way the parts fit together, so screwing it up isn't really an option.

I can see where working with anything running on Windows would be a trial though...

I was told that, even without the bluetooth (my laptop doesn't have bluetooth, I have to use a dongle to get bluetooth on it), you can take the data that's displayed on the screen of the TigerStrike and punch it directly into the DeLorme topo software and it will still plot it all out for you, you just don't have the "push a button and it's done" like when you have bluetooth.

I've never had a lot of problem with bluetooth myself, it either tends to work for me, or it doesn't. I use bluetooth on my two Palm computers to share the internet connection on my linux machine (where I keep the dongle plugged in), and of course the earpiece to the cell phone runs on bluetooth. All of those were simply "Find bluetooth connections. Pair. Done."

I'll ask someone in California that's done it on bluetooth already and see if it's that hard and post something this afternoon when they get back to me.

JoeTomasone · March 23, 2009, 03:50:19 PM

Quote from: Major Lord on March 23, 2009, 02:35:30 PM
Did the issue of whether the new gen 406 ELT's have reduced output on 121.5 ever get resolved? I can't find any publications that show that low power 121.5 beacons are authorized, only rumors.

Major Lord

I discussed this in another thread (one of the "what do we do after 1 Feb 2009" threads). The power output on 121.5 varies by manufacturer. ARTEX models seem to all have 100mw; ACR's EPIRBs are 25mw, etc, etc.

Google it and you'll find a bunch of spec sheets to whet your appetite.

Back on topic: When can we see one in FL?

SE_Tigerstrike · March 23, 2009, 03:54:09 PM

Major Lord, in sardak's message posted above, he states that they are NOT 25mW...but then at the bottom of the same post states the power requirement for 121.5 is 25mW - 100mW, so I don't know.

Same message he states "shall not be less than 50mW nor greater than 400 mW".

Keep searching maybe?

SE_Tigerstrike · March 23, 2009, 03:56:19 PM

Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 23, 2009, 03:50:19 PM
Back on topic: When can we see one in FL?

Joe, I am about to step out of the office for a little while, but if you give me a call in about an hour, I should be sitting back at my desk by then and we can discuss it.

Major Lord · March 23, 2009, 04:06:02 PM

Quote from: SE_Tigerstrike on March 23, 2009, 03:54:09 PM
Major Lord, in sardak's message posted above, he states that they are NOT 25mW...but then at the bottom of the same post states the power requirement for 121.5 is 25mW - 100mW, so I don't know.

Same message he states "shall not be less than 50mW nor greater than 400 mW".

Keep searching maybe?

Roger that, there may be different authorized power levels for EPIRBs, I only found regs for ELT's. I will double check. Thanks.

Major Lord

Al Sayre · March 23, 2009, 05:57:30 PM

Stay tuned kids. I promise to post an objective review after our Practice Ops Eval next week. We have several Electrical Engineers in our Wing including me, so we plan to put it through the wringer as much as possible and provide an unbiased review.

sardak · March 23, 2009, 06:21:45 PM

Quote from: Major Lord on March 23, 2009, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: SE_Tigerstrike on March 23, 2009, 03:54:09 PM
Major Lord, in sardak's message posted above, he states that they are NOT 25mW...but then at the bottom of the same post states the power requirement for 121.5 is 25mW - 100mW, so I don't know.

Same message he states "shall not be less than 50mW nor greater than 400 mW".

Keep searching maybe?

Roger that, there may be different authorized power levels for EPIRBs, I only found regs for ELT's. I will double check. Thanks.

Major Lord

Chapter and verse from the FCC regs for the 121.5 MHz output power for ELTs, PLBs and EPIRBs were stated in this thread. If you want to continue looking because you don't believe it, have at it. When you find something different, please post it here.

Mike

PHall · March 24, 2009, 01:08:33 AM

Quote from: Major Lord on March 23, 2009, 02:35:30 PM
Did the issue of whether the new gen 406 ELT's have reduced output on 121.5 ever get resolved? I can't find any publications that show that low power 121.5 beacons are authorized, only rumors.

Major Lord

http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/Documents/tDocs.htm

SE_Tigerstrike · March 24, 2009, 01:39:51 AM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 23, 2009, 02:19:47 PMOut of curiosity, how easy is it to integrate the data transmission features with the mapping software, etc? Will/does the manual cover the setup?

Sorry for the delay, only just now talked to one of the guys in Cali about it, and he had to rush off before the call was really finished, while he was explaining some stuff to me.

Yes, the manual will cover everything you need to know, as expected of a manual.

There's a holdup (and this part answers some of Major Lord's question about timeframe) waiting on DeLorme with something on their side of it (and this is when he had to get off the phone, so I didn't get whatever it is they are waiting on DeLorme to do), but that all the tests so far with communication between devices works fine. So, hardware works, software seems to be (from what I understand) what's being waited on.

jimmydeanno · March 24, 2009, 01:47:44 AM

Quote from: SE_Tigerstrike on March 24, 2009, 01:39:51 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 23, 2009, 02:19:47 PMOut of curiosity, how easy is it to integrate the data transmission features with the mapping software, etc? Will/does the manual cover the setup?

Sorry for the delay, only just now talked to one of the guys in Cali about it, and he had to rush off before the call was really finished, while he was explaining some stuff to me.

Yes, the manual will cover everything you need to know, as expected of a manual.

There's a holdup (and this part answers some of Major Lord's question about timeframe) waiting on DeLorme with something on their side of it (and this is when he had to get off the phone, so I didn't get whatever it is they are waiting on DeLorme to do), but that all the tests so far with communication between devices works fine. So, hardware works, software seems to be (from what I understand) what's being waited on.

Seems to be that way everywhere. Where I work, the hardware guys say the stuff doesn't work because of the software guys. The software guys say the stuff doesn't work because of the hardware

Thanks for the update, I'm interested to see how this works out.

SE_Tigerstrike · March 24, 2009, 01:57:35 AM

Well, eventually it'll work out with it working, of course.

All the little duckies just have to line up like they are supposed to, in a nice neat row.

MrRogersX1 · March 25, 2009, 08:46:47 PM

Hello everyone,

My apologies' this is a bit long.

I have been following this story on the TigerStrike from its conception. My self and my team are interested in it. I have been reading all of the postings and I am truly amazed at some of the Professionals who work for CAP.

Many comments that were posted were truly unwarranted and it does seam like some persons have a grudge against the firestorm company & or its people. That is a shame! ES is to save lives and if someone can build a better mouse trap then great! (Thank you for removing the nasty comments moderator)

I work for a department of the NAVY and we do tracking. The archaic equipment that is still being used by us and other departments are needless to say "Horrible"

My opinion on the testing of the equipment should be done by some of the best trackers in the Nation. Most of them live right here in Southern California. In fact only a few of them we consider the best come out and train us when we need it and we are supposed to be of that caliber of a team.

I can tell you right now that the best way to hunt transmitters is by the beam on the vehicle with a simple radio with and electronic attenuator. However this is not in CAP's reality; to a point. Your hands are tide with Red tape in practically everything you do. A Doppler is only good if you are within a few miles of a transmitter with very little or nothing to reflect off of and this can be debated. Many trackers need hidden ways of tracking so no antennas can been seen. (Difficult to do)

You can't learn electronic tracking techniques by a book. Even the basics in a book are not much help, it only gets you started. Hands on is the only way to learn.

You in the CAP (& others) should be tapping into the Experts who live in your area and learn from them. That is if you truly want to be better as ground teams & individuals in tracking.

You have a gentlemen named Bob Miller, he has access to some folks that can hunt circles around the CAP and "ANY" other tracking team on this earth. I do know that Mr. Miller has used one or two of them to help train the CAP at SAR City and used them to train the Sherriff Search and Risqué Teams & others. We have also used the same person to kick us back into the correct way of tracking when we need it.

Ladies and Gents, I wish you the best of luck in saving lives and or the recovery. Please work together and use the knowledge around you to do what you enjoy doing. Each of us has the preferred equipment we like but don't grow up in your own world while the rest walk right by you. Open your mind to new ideas, techniques or what ever comes your way.

To the FireStorm guys. Let the Best in the world test your equipment; see what they have to say. Let Mr. H know that Roger said hi. One or maybe a few more know who I am talking about.

Thank you for letting me post a run.

es_g0d · March 26, 2009, 02:15:43 AM

MrRogers:

There are some folks here who would argue the color of the sky. Don't sweat those people; that's internet courage for you. Ignore it and keep with the discussion at hand.

On the other hand, some of us are watching this new piece of equipment with healthy skepticism. I personally would love to see a piece of equipment that can do everything the Tigerstrike promises. After that, its a simple matter of economics.

Major Lord · March 26, 2009, 02:44:12 AM

I am sure that all of the doubts about this unit can be set aside as soon as we have CAP members (who are not owners of the Company and are experienced in DF techniques) test and evaluate the production Tigerstrike. MrRogersx1, are you by any chance another member the Firestorm team? My Squadron (Travis) will happily make its facilities available for the demonstration of this equipment.

Major Lord

SE_Tigerstrike · March 26, 2009, 04:27:41 AM

Looks like I will be the only Firestorm guy in MS this Saturday, IF it's not rained out. All the guys that were pegged to fly in from California have something else keeping them away...

So, hopefully I'll be good enough.

See ya Saturday.

calguy · March 26, 2009, 03:05:12 PM

You have a gentlemen named Bob Miller, he has access to some folks that can hunt circles around the CAP and "ANY" other tracking team on this earth. I do know that Mr. Miller has used one or two of them to help train the CAP at SAR City and used them to train the Sherriff Search and Risqué Teams & others. We have also used the same person to kick us back into the correct way of tracking when we need it.

In California, there are two guys that go on 95% of all the missions (Tom Charpenter and Bob Kielholtz) and this year have at least 5 saves and dozens of finds. Maybe we should see what they use and learn from them! I don't think either of them have been invited to any of the demos or tests, I know Tom was at the Bakerfields demo and was never approached by the Tigerstrike folks. Odd? Maybe, maybe not. I never hear Bob Miller or Ron Butts out on hardly ANY missions. I don't think either of the two should be considered "experts" .

SE_Tigerstrike · March 26, 2009, 03:21:52 PM

Ok, two things...

One, the TigerStrike is no longer going to be using bluetooth. The military is interested in the TigerStrike, and there's a military boom designed, but the government doesn't like bluetooth, so now the TigerStrike will be using an encrypted signal to communicate with the topo software on the laptop. Firestorm will be providing the dongle to receive the signal from the TigerStrike.

And two, ANOTHER battle starting up in here? Jeez...

Flying Pig · March 26, 2009, 03:31:43 PM

Whats a Risque Team? Are the rest of us incapable of determining what's best for our units based on our own budgets? I have some solid ES guys in my unit as well that I go to.

Major Lord · March 26, 2009, 03:34:29 PM

Jim,

I think the suggestion to Have Bob Keilholtz test the unit is a spendid one! There is no one else who's objectivity and credibility I would trust more. We have been asked to hold the discussion to the area of the technology of the Tigerstrike, but so far, we don't really have any info on the technology; just unmet dates for demos and production. Do you have a new goal date for production yet?

Major Lord

ps. I don't know what a risque team is unless they have nude SAR teams out there somewhere! Is that Canadian for "Risk" ?

SE_Tigerstrike · March 26, 2009, 04:27:29 PM

Major Lord, there are plenty of met dates for demos, and redesign pushes production times back. The bluetooth change isn't minor. Matter of fact, now that I think about it, I don't know of any UNmet dates for demos, unless you count when I had the wrong date for the thing at Bakersfield? That happened, just not on the weekend I thought it did. As far as the one this weekend, I'm not calling it off, it's the Eval itself in danger of getting called off, on account of weather.

If Bob Keilholtz wants to see a unit, I am sure the guys out there in California would be more than happy to let him see one, as they are trying to get everyone that wants to see it a chance with it.

It's a little far for me to drive, though, so it won't be me showing it to him.

Someone mentioned that a Tom Charpenter was at Bakersfield but wasn't approached by the TigerStrike guys... So? Did he wear a tshirt that said "Hi, I am the God of DF, all new tech must be evaluated by me!" Did he go to the TigerStrike guys, who were there for ANYONE INTERESTED to come and see the TigerStrike and express an interest? Don't fault Firestorm because they didn't know an anonymous person in the crowd needed to be hunted down and forced to evaluate the TigerStrike, they were there to let EVERYONE see it.

Oh, and I know what Risque is, but not a Risque Team...but I'm not CAP, remember? I would guess it's an amusing term for something else, like maybe a Risk team or something.