Changing level one to be useful BMT

Started by Eclipse, February 24, 2009, 04:06:05 PM

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Eclipse

For the purposes of this, lets say BMT = Basic Member Training.

We were discussing the ongoing challenges to our members in regards to prerequisites for various activities and progression.
Its been the same conversation for the 10 years I've been in CAP, and I'm sure has been similar since day 1.

Today we give a Membership Ribbon for completion of Level 1, which is just the online pre-tests, the summary conversation with the commander, and CPT.

The combatant services, as well as LEA's and FD's require completion of a baseline training by all participants, regardless of their ultimate career specialty to insure that the entire corps has the same fundamental understanding of mission and the short hand of language that comes with a shared experience.  It also insures that everyone in the organization has the same bare-minimum skillset, so that members are interchangeable in a pinch.

Rather than the checkbox mentality of Level 1 today, I would propose that the expectation be extended to encompass at least the 6 months between entry and 2d Lt.

Within the first 30 days:
Existing Level 1 and CPT, along with any localized unit SOP's and training.
(this allows for compliance with regulatory requirements needed for other training and activities)

To achieve the membership ribbon and 2d Lt:
     Training on the use of the WMU, eServices, and other online resources.

     Declare specialty track(s).

     Online:
          EEO
          OPSEC
          ORM
          Basic Safety

          GES, as well as ICS 100/200/700/800

     B-Cut level or higher radio operator's card.

     Fam & Prep tasks for
          MSA
          UDF

     Training on the use of the WMU, eServices, and other online resources. (duplicate)

For Seniors:

     CAP Driver's License (for those qualified)

     Basics of Drill and uniform wear at the same level as a Curry Cadet.

     Required Staff Training (as prescribed by 52-16 for encampments)
          Good for several years, or until the training is updated / changed.

For cadets:
     Summary training of unit operations and staff positions.


The above would fully integrate the members, both cadet and senior, with an understanding of CAP's operations, provide them with the baseline qualifications to operate in just about any situation or activity they are interested in, negates the "we don't do ES/Cadets" mentality, and provides for a common experience to all who wear the uniform.

It might look a bit ES-heavy, but I contend that the ORM/ICS mentality is crucial to any activity and would benefit everyone.

Radios are used in plenty of cadet activities, as are CAP DL's, and the RST thing should be a once-and-done situation, not the multi-annual refresher we have to go through, plus, hazing might be easier in an encampment environment, but plenty of it happens back at home as well.

Those seniors who don't want to have anything to do with cadets will be force to at least address that they are part of the organization, will understand their responsibilities when cadets are around, and I would contend be more inclined to participate in cadet activities.

Completed over a 6-month period, the above is far from onerous, and considering that most members are at their most enthusiastic towards training in that first year, catches a lot of baseline training when the member is most open to it.

Upon award, the membership ribbon actually means something, and provides an expectation when people see it being worn.

"That Others May Zoom"

davidsinn

Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

swamprat86

Overall, I think the idea is sound.  One of the biggest complaints from new seniors is that join and end up not having anything to do.  This should keep them engaged.  I'm not sure on the details, I will have to let that digest.

With the way this is set up, I expect that cadets could earn this or get credit for most of it when they transition to senior?

DogCollar

I'm not sure.  Personally, I don't see level 1, as it now exists is problem.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Capt_Redfox30

I really like that idea.  Not all seniors make not like it, but I have known to many that are, well I am a Pilot, I wear my flight suit, I don't need to know how to wear a uniform.  (No Offense to the Pilots).  

As a Group PDO, I can see that many Seniors have only one specialty track that has been at the technician level for 8 years.  To many want to do the one thing and not advance.  If they had a better understanding of the program, they may choice to advance.    

WIWAC I was obligated to have an understanding of all Three Missions, but the seniors didn't have to.  I have always felt that was wrong.  The Military and other departments train everyone in every aspect of the job so one can fill in in case someone is not available.

With the positive changes that we have had in the Program over the last year, mostly on the Senior Side I think national might take note of this.  

They want everyone to complete Organizational Excellence, why not this?    
Kirk Thirtyacre, Lt Col, CAP
(Acting) Group Commander
Group 3 HQ

Phil Hirons, Jr.

A good concept. I would suggest a few reductions

ICS 100/700 in place of ICS 100/200/700/800.

While B-CUT is highly desireable it is not in the new members control when (or if) is a available.

I'd settle for Curry minus the drill movements. Keep proper saluting, difference C&C for the numerous uniforms.

These would also apply to anyone requesting any special appointment of grade (mission, professional...)
The result  you see someone wearing officer grade, you know they've got the basics


davidsinn

Quote from: DogCollar on February 24, 2009, 04:24:59 PM
I'm not sure.  Personally, I don't see level 1, as it now exists is problem.

I see lvl 1 as a joke. We have butterbars Lieutenants running around that don't know 20-1 from a magazine because our intro training doesn't teach anything.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Pylon

Quote from: DogCollar on February 24, 2009, 04:24:59 PM
I'm not sure.  Personally, I don't see level 1, as it now exists is problem.

Many of us do.  Even a properly administered Level I, with a great commander or other officer conducting good summary conversations and really covering modules our members still come out of Level I with a barely cursory understanding of CAP.

An actual course would be helpful. 
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

notaNCO forever

 I would throw some basics about aerospace in their.

EMT-83

Much of this could be implemented on a local level, without waiting for NHQ. I tell all my new seniors that Level 1 is required in 30 days; GES and NIMS during the next 30 days. Then we start looking at specialty tracks.

It's about creating expectations right from the beginning. If you expect new members to do nothing, that's what you'll get.

NC Hokie

There's a lot of good stuff in there Eclipse, but I think you're going overboard on some of it.  Here are my modifications (with reasoning):

- Eliminate ICS 200 and 800, as they are not required for most entry-level ES jobs.

- Change the fam and prep requirements from MRA and UDF to any ES task the member chooses.

- Dump B-CUT, for the reason phirons gave above (lack of guaranteed availability).

- Reduce the drill requirements to the bare minimums; seniors should know how to salute, how to report to a senior officer, and how to stand in a stationary formation.  Marching and facing movements are nice, but most seniors will never need to be proficient in those.

- I wouldn't require WMU training or RST unless the senior wants to work in areas that require them.

I would be fully on-board with a meatier Level I, as it would communicate that membership in CAP means something more than "I have a clean criminal record and some money to burn on annual dues."
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

majdomke

Wasn't this the whole point of Great Start for Seniors? I'd love to see regularly scheduled weekend training events for new seniors that cover the Great Start program. This can be done at the group level, much like the Basic Cadet School we run here in CA.

Capt_Redfox30

The Chief of Staff of my Group and Myself are working on a New Senior Orientation Program.  Will cover all Level One Online Training, Uniform Wear, Basic Drill, Saluting/Reporting/Formation etc.   Will be a lot of information, but can be totally covered in One weekend.   

The Great Start Program is good, but how many Squadrons/Groups have time during there meetings to actually conduct the training properly? 
Kirk Thirtyacre, Lt Col, CAP
(Acting) Group Commander
Group 3 HQ

majdomke

With cadets, we plan it as part of our regular meetings for five weeks with one Saturday for field day. You can also do this over the course of a weekend. With seniors, its the same thing which is why I mentioned doing on a weekend. Great Start is a well planned program with guidelines for times in it. You don't have to follow it verbatim, but use it as a guide.

DogCollar

Quote from: NC Hokie on February 24, 2009, 05:11:17 PM
There's a lot of good stuff in there Eclipse, but I think you're going overboard on some of it.  Here are my modifications (with reasoning):

- Eliminate ICS 200 and 800, as they are not required for most entry-level ES jobs.

- Change the fam and prep requirements from MRA and UDF to any ES task the member chooses.

- Dump B-CUT, for the reason phirons gave above (lack of guaranteed availability).

- Reduce the drill requirements to the bare minimums; seniors should know how to salute, how to report to a senior officer, and how to stand in a stationary formation.  Marching and facing movements are nice, but most seniors will never need to be proficient in those.

- I wouldn't require WMU training or RST unless the senior wants to work in areas that require them.

I would be fully on-board with a meatier Level I, as it would communicate that membership in CAP means something more than "I have a clean criminal record and some money to burn on annual dues."

I can go along with these suggestions.  I think that anything more...and there will most likely be diminishing returns.  Also, requiring a specialty track would knock out half the seniors in my squadron who are more focused on ES ratings.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Trung Si Ma

The last time I had a cadet squadron, we made all of the seniors complete the curry requirements.

With that in mind, I would rather see a BMT that was exactly the same for cadets and seniors with the addition of the CAP DL for seniors.  Let the cadets take CPPT, it sure isn't going to hurt them.  Having the cadets and seniors fully understand each others program is a plus.

Think of it as a six month, wing/group run program that starts each quarter and ends with a pass in review, formal graduation type thing.  Use only one ribbon for both (I'd keep the Curry for the historical tie-in) and let it carry over to the senior side if their is no break in service.
Freedom isn't free - I paid for it

arajca

The basic idea is sound and I agree with most of the changes suggested. I will make this suggestion - change B-CUT to I-CUT (after roll out). I-CUT will be an online 'course' and will replace B-CUT. Removes the availability arguement.

I do not agree with making seniors complete the Curry requirements. Also, adding local requirements to the promotion requirements is a violation of CAPR 35-1:
Quote from: CAPR 35-1
1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

So, those who require completion of the Curry requirements for seniors are in violation of the regs.

For those seniors who do not want to do anything besides ES, inform them that if they cannot be bothered to help the unit, the unit cannot be bothered to help them. It sounds mean, but why should I as a non-ES member have to carry the burden for ES members?

lordmonar

In principle I think this would be a good idea.

I-CUT or B-CUT would be useful as well as getting all your basic ES stuff out of the way.  (I would not drop B-CUT due to lack of availaibilty.....this may be a way of forcing the comm guys to start providing this training or allowing more unit comm officers/commanders to do this training.

I like the idea about some drill and ceremonies...as well as most of the stuff in the curry test....we would/should make a modified test that covers all the basics.....ranks, military customs, flag etiquit, followership.

Having said all that.....does this really solve the "box checking" for level I?

None of the training suggested is really all that hard.   Except that B-CUT is so far and few between....there is not really anything that would prevent someone from knocking out all the suggested training in less then a month.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Flying Pig

Lets face it.  I need all the members I can get just to meet what I need done. The vast majority of the members I have are either here for ES strickly and to be pilots or Observers (not a whole lot of 'em interested in GT) and the other half are here and are members only so they can spend time with their kids in cadet programs.  I have very few who are interested in both.  They get in, get their required classes completed and do what needs to be done.  Obviously the ES oriented ones go on to complete other things, but the ones who are here for their kids are not going to get UDF, Ground Team or Aircrew qualified.  The ones here like ES, arent really interested in attending activities with cadets and the ones here for cadets could care less about ES.
Thats just the way it is, and those are the members I have.  I have explained to them that "buying into" the CAP culture is valuable.  But beyond thee "requirements", I let it go.
But, both spectrums seem to get accomplished.   I just done have people with a foot on each side.

So...with that said.....we dont need anymore basic membership requirements.

Eclipse

Quote from: arajca on February 24, 2009, 07:40:49 PM
The basic idea is sound and I agree with most of the changes suggested. I will make this suggestion - change B-CUT to I-CUT (after roll out). I-CUT will be an online 'course' and will replace B-CUT. Removes the availability argument.

I do not agree with making seniors complete the Curry requirements. Also, adding local requirements to the promotion requirements is a violation of CAPR 35-1:
Quote from: CAPR 35-1
1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

So, those who require completion of the Curry requirements for seniors are in violation of the regs.

I can't speak to what other units might be doing today, this is a suggestion to raise the bar at the national level which would include changing the regulations regarding promotion requirements.

Also, in my case Seniors would not pass or or receive Curry, I am only suggesting that the same ground-level understanding of drill and uniforms be incorporated into senior training.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: Flying Pig on February 24, 2009, 07:54:43 PM
So...with that said.....we don't need anymore basic membership requirements.

What, on the list above, isn't required for nearly every member, especially those in ES?  Depending on how you count them,
there's about 13 things on the list above, at least 5 of which are required for all members, and almost all of which are required for those involved in ES.

My suggestion is simply to get members to get them out of the way in the first six months and move on with their lives instead of this constant nickel and diming of our time, and the by-product is a membership that actually understand CAP, not just the tiny chunk they think is important.   

"That Others May Zoom"

Ricochet13

#21
Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2009, 04:06:05 PM
For the purposes of this, lets say BMT = Basic Member Training.

We were discussing the ongoing challenges to our members in regards to prerequisites for various activities and progression.
Its been the same conversation for the 10 years I've been in CAP, and I'm sure has been similar since day 1.

Today we give a Membership Ribbon for completion of Level 1, which is just the online pre-tests, the summary conversation with the commander, and CPT.

The combatant services, as well as LEA's and FD's require completion of a baseline training by all participants, regardless of their ultimate career specialty to insure that the entire corps has the same fundamental understanding of mission and the short hand of language that comes with a shared experience.  It also insures that everyone in the organization has the same bare-minimum skillset, so that members are interchangeable in a pinch.

Rather than the checkbox mentality of Level 1 today, I would propose that the expectation be extended to encompass at least the 6 months between entry and 2d Lt.

Within the first 30 days:
Existing Level 1 and CPT, along with any localized unit SOP's and training.
(this allows for compliance with regulatory requirements needed for other training and activities)

To achieve the membership ribbon and 2d Lt:
     Training on the use of the WMU, eServices, and other online resources.

     Declare specialty track(s).

     Online:
          EEO
          OPSEC
          ORM
          Basic Safety

          GES, as well as ICS 100/200/700/800

     B-Cut level or higher radio operator's card.

     Fam & Prep tasks for
          MSA
          UDF

     Training on the use of the WMU, eServices, and other online resources. (duplicate)

For Seniors:

     CAP Driver's License (for those qualified)

     Basics of Drill and uniform wear at the same level as a Curry Cadet.

     Required Staff Training (as prescribed by 52-16 for encampments)
          Good for several years, or until the training is updated / changed.

For cadets:
     Summary training of unit operations and staff positions.


The above would fully integrate the members, both cadet and senior, with an understanding of CAP's operations, provide them with the baseline qualifications to operate in just about any situation or activity they are interested in, negates the "we don't do ES/Cadets" mentality, and provides for a common experience to all who wear the uniform.

It might look a bit ES-heavy, but I contend that the ORM/ICS mentality is crucial to any activity and would benefit everyone.

Radios are used in plenty of cadet activities, as are CAP DL's, and the RST thing should be a once-and-done situation, not the multi-annual refresher we have to go through, plus, hazing might be easier in an encampment environment, but plenty of it happens back at home as well.

Those seniors who don't want to have anything to do with cadets will be force to at least address that they are part of the organization, will understand their responsibilities when cadets are around, and I would contend be more inclined to participate in cadet activities.

Completed over a 6-month period, the above is far from onerous, and considering that most members are at their most enthusiastic towards training in that first year, catches a lot of baseline training when the member is most open to it.

Upon award, the membership ribbon actually means something, and provides an expectation when people see it being worn.

This is pretty close to what is done in the squadron.  A couple of differences:

1)  IS-200 and 800 are placed later in professional development depending on specific ES skills be pursed during the Level II stages and any progression into such ES skills as CUL, FASC, LSC, prior to attendance at an ICS-300 course.  Interestingly, about 60% of the squadron has completed IS-200  and about 50% the IS-800.
2)  Members are required to complete both BCUT and ACUT.
3)  MRO is added to the ES certification required of all members.

MS is a certification which is intended for completion during Level II of professional development.

A basic understanding upon joining the squadron recognizes required ES certification as UDF, MRO, MS, and MSA in the first 1-2 years of membership depending on training opportunities.

This is a very simplified description, but the general idea is here.  In the last 18 months the squadron has grown from 8 members (flight status) to 22 members (have been re-designated as a squadron).  Lastly, we are a senior squadron.

davedove

Just to play devil's advocate here, wasn't the reason CAP went to the online Level I training that too many people were having trouble getting the training.  If we increase the limits, we would be heading back to that situation.

Now, I'm all for more training, but I think that would probably be best done on a squadron level.  That way it could be better tailored to the squadron's needs.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

Eclipse

Quote from: davedove on February 25, 2009, 01:02:21 PM
Just to play devil's advocate here, wasn't the reason CAP went to the online Level I training that too many people were having trouble getting the training.  If we increase the limits, we would be heading back to that situation.

CAP did not go to "online Level I training" - there are several pre-tests and information a new member needs to review, however a "summary conversation" and CPT must still be completed with the unit CC.

I've found these generally take 2-3 hours if you address the topics comprehensively and include local practicalities and important information.

They are better this way, versus locking the new member in a room with a stuttery video, but they are not done online.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Major Carrales

#25
I think a simple stream lining of what we have is what is in order.  No need to create mandates that will never be universally done to the same level.

Sometimes I think many of y'all forget the nature of CAP.  If you start mandating classes...these classes have to be put on.  Issue with that...1) small units in differnent Wings will take place that will not be equitable to others, 2) classes will not be available, new members will languish in non-activity until they are available and will walk...no run...from the unit.

Also, since none of you will be going through these newly designed hoops, may I remind you that not all people join CAP for ES.  Some are pure cadet programs people and...as some of you have pointed out in other threads...many Cadet Units don't even do ES.  Likewise for Senior Squadrons en re cadets.

RANT EXPUNGED...sorry if you missed it.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

RADIOMAN015

 ???I think overall CAP is going more towards computer based training for adults (senior members).  This can be taken when the member is available and is not tied to having specific instructors and/or times to take specific module trainining.  When members had to actually attend Level I training classes, wasn't that one of the complaints that the training wasn't given that often and many times members couldn't participate do to scheduling conflicts.

HOWEVER, I agree that each senior member should have a "training mentor" assigned, and we should pushing the new senior member (individuals) along in their training efforts, e.g. Level I, SLC, CLC, as well as the ES side to include radio ops and another ground or air speciality.

Again I think there are members in CAP that can advance professionally very quickly by self study & mentoring rather than be forced into some sort of 6 month basic training program.
RM         

Major Carrales

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on February 28, 2009, 12:17:08 AM
???I think overall CAP is going more towards computer based training for adults (senior members).  This can be taken when the member is available and is not tied to having specific instructors and/or times to take specific module trainining.  When members had to actually attend Level I training classes, wasn't that one of the complaints that the training wasn't given that often and many times members couldn't participate do to scheduling conflicts.

HOWEVER, I agree that each senior member should have a "training mentor" assigned, and we should pushing the new senior member (individuals) along in their training efforts, e.g. Level I, SLC, CLC, as well as the ES side to include radio ops and another ground or air speciality.

Again I think there are members in CAP that can advance professionally very quickly by self study & mentoring rather than be forced into some sort of 6 month basic training program.
RM         

Well written, I think a real menotring process trough LEVEL I would address more than some series of classes that could never accomodate an equal adminstration even from group to group.  Yes, we need more training, but more than that we need more effective training in the realistic setting.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

flyguy06

Quote from: Capt_Redfox30 on February 24, 2009, 04:28:45 PM
I really like that idea.  Not all seniors make not like it, but I have known to many that are, well I am a Pilot, I wear my flight suit, I don't need to know how to wear a uniform.  (No Offense to the Pilots).  

As a Group PDO, I can see that many Seniors have only one specialty track that has been at the technician level for 8 years.  To many want to do the one thing and not advance.  If they had a better understanding of the program, they may choice to advance.    

WIWAC I was obligated to have an understanding of all Three Missions, but the seniors didn't have to.  I have always felt that was wrong.  The Military and other departments train everyone in every aspect of the job so one can fill in in case someone is not available.

With the positive changes that we have had in the Program over the last year, mostly on the Senior Side I think national might take note of this.  

They want everyone to complete Organizational Excellence, why not this?    

I understand completely what you are saying. I have senior members that have been in since 1994 and have only completed level one. They dont attend meetings. They just continue to renew their membership. its depressing.They dont even know about the changes in the Senior member Program.

Its hard to get volunteers to do thee things unless they are dedicated.  They always throw  up the "volunteer" when they dont want to do something. What do you do about this situation?

Eclipse

Quote from: flyguy06 on February 28, 2009, 11:35:14 AM
I understand completely what you are saying. I have senior members that have been in since 1994 and have only completed level one. They dont attend meetings. They just continue to renew their membership. its depressing.They dont even know about the changes in the Senior member Program.

Its hard to get volunteers to do thee things unless they are dedicated.  They always throw  up the "volunteer" when they dont want to do something. What do you do about this situation?

For the ones who just want an ID card, triple-0 them or convert them to patrons.

For the ones that actually want to play, you make them understand that th opportunities they "want", come with more responsibilities than just showing up and writing a check, and those responsibilities, and the "unpaid professional" mentatlity is what ultimately makes those opportunities compelling.

"That Others May Zoom"

Always Ready

Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2009, 04:06:05 PM
Within the first 30 days:
Existing Level 1 and CPT, along with any localized unit SOP's and training.
(this allows for compliance with regulatory requirements needed for other training and activities) Sounds good, include in there a heart to heart stating what the commander expects out of the Seniors and the possible time commitments. Some squadrons expect a lot of time to be put in for all activities, others don't say, and some say very little time should be put in. Explain what training normally takes place, how long, and how often. That way they know what they are getting into.

To achieve the membership ribbon and 2d Lt:
     Training on the use of the WMU, eServices, and other online resources. I think eServices training and gocivilairpatrol.com navagation training should be mandatory for everyone (not just newbies). Some wings don't use WMU and some people will never see or hear about it so make that wing/squadron specific.

     Declare specialty track(s).

     Online:
          EEO
          OPSEC
          ORM
          Basic Safety

          GES, as well as ICS 100/200/700/800 Not all Seniors do ES. This is good for any that are interested in it to get it done and out of the way.

     B-Cut level or higher radio operator's card. +1 I think comm is neglected in its possible uses. Every CAP member should know how to use a radio properly...even if it is just ISRs.

     Fam & Prep tasks for Nix these. While I would like everybody to participate in ES some way, some just aren't interested.
          MSA
          UDF

     Training on the use of the WMU, eServices, and other online resources. (duplicate)

For Seniors:

     CAP Driver's License (for those qualified) +1 Lets push it for those under 21 too. That way if the squadron van needs something done (read maintenance or relocating it), there are more people who can do it.

     Basics of Drill and uniform wear at the same level as a Curry Cadet. +1 The only Seniors I know that can do drill are prior cadets and prior military types and some of them can be a little rusty ;)

     Required Staff Training (as prescribed by 52-16 for encampments)
          Good for several years, or until the training is updated / changed. +1 again.

For cadets: I assume you mean for prior cadets??
     Summary training of unit operations and staff positions.

Upon award, the membership ribbon actually means something, and provides an expectation when people see it being worn. Here here!!!! :)
Overall I liked this. I believe we expect more out our cadets than our seniors and that is very troubling for me. It's nice to see I'm not alone. I think that until we start making the same ES stuff mandatory for Cadets, we shouldn't expect the Seniors to do it. National should send out a kit that has a checklist going over all the little things that commanders *should* go over with the new members, because lets face it, people forget minor details sometimes. I think that while prior cadet experiences are valuable, that they should be forced to go through the same classes and work that all other seniors go through, no matter what they earned as a cadet. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Same thing with the other special appointments. Getting into arguments about CAP-specific or SM-specific things taught in the above training with people who technically out rank me but have not done anything other than Level One in CAP is getting old. Great work Eclipse!!!

P.S. If I already said something someone else said, sorry, sue me :P

SoCalCAPOfficer

Quote from: Flying Pig on February 24, 2009, 07:54:43 PM
Lets face it.  I need all the members I can get just to meet what I need done. The vast majority of the members I have are either here for ES strickly and to be pilots or Observers (not a whole lot of 'em interested in GT) and the other half are here and are members only so they can spend time with their kids in cadet programs.  I have very few who are interested in both.  They get in, get their required classes completed and do what needs to be done.  Obviously the ES oriented ones go on to complete other things, but the ones who are here for their kids are not going to get UDF, Ground Team or Aircrew qualified.  The ones here like ES, arent really interested in attending activities with cadets and the ones here for cadets could care less about ES.
Thats just the way it is, and those are the members I have.  I have explained to them that "buying into" the CAP culture is valuable.  But beyond thee "requirements", I let it go.
But, both spectrums seem to get accomplished.   I just done have people with a foot on each side.

So...with that said.....we dont need anymore basic membership requirements.

All I can say, is "AMEN"
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

Hawk200

I would suggest eliminating B-CUT, and GES.

However, I would highly recommend that some of the ICS courses be retained. I don't remember which module it's in, but it shows how ICS could be used for just about anything. For us, that means it could even be applied to our regular squadron meetings.

Other than those changes, I'd run with it.

Now, the biggest question: how do we make it happen?

davedove

I have another thought on this.  Level I is required before a member can do much of anything at the unit.  If we require more before Level I is completed, how much longer are the members going to have to wait to contribute.  Contributing is the main reason most people join this or any other organization.

Granted, we need the training.  However, we need to balance the training with letting people "do" something.

I personally enjoy learning new things, but not everyone is like that.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

Eclipse

Maybe I didn't make it clear, but this is more intended as requirements for the completion of the membership ribbon and butter-bars than "level I" in its current form.

We'd still do the online+summary, CPT & OPSEC in the first weeks, then the rest (some of which is dependent on the first 3).

The member doesn't get their membership ribbon or 2d Lt until they compete my list, that makes the ribbon as recognition of their usefulness to CAP and completion of a baseline of training outside what they "want" to do later (i.e. similar to BMT where everyone gets the same baseline, then they move to their tech schools).

And yes, in my world, advance promotion for whatever reason - CFI, military, whatever, would be delayed pending completion - thus, the end of the Lt. Col's from other services who never really "get" CAP, etc.

"That Others May Zoom"

jimmydeanno

The purpose of professional development is to improve the member's knowledge and abilities.  So with that in mind, changing level one of professional development to be a bit meatier wouldn't be a bad thing.

What should then be done is a differentiator between requirements to participate and the professional development program.

There could be a pre-requisite, separate from PD that includes EO and CPPT to get people their permanent card and would allow them to participate.  Then start the PD program for progression.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill