20K road marches are no fun.

[RogueLeader]

Just completed a 20k road march this morning in 3hrs and 51 min.  Any ideas on how to cut that don to 3:15 or 3:30?

[heliodoc]

HUMVEE at a with a moderate application of LPC's on gas pedal

[jimmydeanno]

Heelies? 

My wife runs marathons and half-marathons rather frequently.  She just ran a half-marathon on Sunday in 1:55 ish.  Her first one was nearly 40 minutes slower. 

She uses a training schedule before each one that maxes out at about half the distance of the actual run.  So for a half-marathon, her longest training run is about 6 miles.  She gradually works her way to that point, then trims back to about 3 miles the week before the marathon.

I would assume this, like anything, will improve the more you do it.  You could always try 'power walking.'

[swamprat86]

I imagine that these are with a ruck.  I agree that you need to train to bring your time down.  That also means working with the pack.  I would suggest that your long day, which is usually a Sat or Sun, be done with the pack.  You can probably modify any marathon or half marathon training plan for this use.  You can get free ones online and there are tons of books on it as well.

If you PM, I can probably help you out.  I have doen several half and full marathons and have a lot of expierience with road marches as well.

[Flying Pig]

I did a 25 mile hump as part of 4 man .50 cal Machinegun team!  Did you actually do the 20k for fun or something?

The best advice I can offer is to stretch out, dringk water with some salt in it and swing your arms.

[swamprat86]

I have done a 5k road march fundraiser for the past two years now for the Gold Star Mothers organization hosted by the McGuire AFB First Sergeant's group.  It was so popular this past year with some of our members that they got together and did another march on their own about a month later for fun.  Just in CAP, I try to do a couple of them a year, especially now that I am out of the Army.

[RogueLeader]

I did a 25 mile hump as part of 4 man .50 cal Machinegun team!  Did you actually do the 20k for fun or something?

The best advice I can offer is to stretch out, dringk water with some salt in it and swing your arms.

Not my idea, I assure you it was a training req.  Although I have started rucking on my own time, usually sat morning with a 55lb ruck. Did about 2-2.5 miles.

Hard to swing arms with an M-4.

[Flying Pig]

Put the M-4 on top of your pack.

[RogueLeader]

Put the M-4 on top of your pack.

Would have loved to. can't when orders are to low carry.  I cheated a little, buy adjusting the strap, so I didn't carry all the weight, but still in hands.

[ol'fido]

Some tips: Don't wear tightie whities, wear bike shorts. Use some petroleum jelly or lotion down there as well. Don't carry anything in your pockets; it'll start to rub after while. Carry a ziploc baggy with a wet washcloth in it to wipe your face and head down with. Stop at the half way point and spend a few minutes with your feet elevated and change socks. Foot powder is your friend. Try a slow jog for a hundred count and then fast walk for a hundred count for a while. When I was in the Light Infantry standard was 17 min/mile with ruck,LBE,weapon, and K-pot. Hope this helps.

[Gunner C]

I did a 25 mile hump as part of 4 man .50 cal Machinegun team!  Did you actually do the 20k for fun or something?

The best advice I can offer is to stretch out, dringk water with some salt in it and swing your arms.

Not my idea, I assure you it was a training req.  Although I have started rucking on my own time, usually sat morning with a 55lb ruck. Did about 2-2.5 miles.

Hard to swing arms with an M-4.

12 mile ruck marches used to be an annual thing for us @ Ft Bragg.  There was a great deal of over-training that went on (I don't walk very well because of it - I've need two hip replacements since I was 40).  Here's what I recommend:

1.  Don't train with over 40 pounds.  It will cause damage to your back, hip, and ankles.  You only have so many miles built into you - don't make it worse.

2.  Don't EVER run with a rucksack.  Same reason as above.  You will hurt yourself.  Our two-star used to take stripes and pay for doing that.  He was smart.

3.  Don't train doing 10K.  Make your training marches light and short.  5K is a good one.  Build up your muscles that way, don't risk hurting yourself over doing.  You can build up your aerobic endurance when you run.

4.  Carry your weapon at a modified port arms.  Move it horizontally left to right as you walk.  It will keep you in balance and will be like your arm swing when you run or walk.

5.  Use some old, very well broken-in boots.  (I had some that were as comfortable as socks). 

6.  Toughen up your feet.  Paint them every day with benzoin tincture for two weeks before the event.  It feels horrible and makes your toes stick together, but your feet will be as tough as leather.

7.  Wear black nylon socks under your boot socks.  It will put the friction on the socks and not your skin.

8.  Do upper body exercises - lift weights.  Bragg has several excellent gyms to work out in.

9.  Vary your workouts.  If you are doing road marches on your own (recommended), don't do them more often than every other day.  Do them after work, varying the distance and speed.  Make your first workout of the week a light one (speed and distance wise) and make the last one your longest and quickest.

10.  Above all, don't let anyone tell you that you should train with more than 40 lbs.  I'm serious.  You'll regret it later (for the rest of your life).

[Stonewall]

12 mile ruck marches used to be an annual thing for us @ Ft Bragg.  There was a great deal of over-training that went on (I don't walk very well because of it - I've need two hip replacements since I was 40).  Here's what I recommend:

1.  Don't train with over 40 pounds.  It will cause damage to your back, hip, and ankles.  You only have so many miles built into you - don't make it worse.

2.  Don't EVER run with a rucksack.  Same reason as above.  You will hurt yourself.  Our two-star used to take stripes and pay for doing that.  He was smart.

3.  Don't train doing 10K.  Make your training marches light and short.  5K is a good one.  Build up your muscles that way, don't risk hurting yourself over doing.  You can build up your aerobic endurance when you run.

4.  Carry your weapon at a modified port arms.  Move it horizontally left to right as you walk.  It will keep you in balance and will be like your arm swing when you run or walk.

5.  Use some old, very well broken-in boots.  (I had some that were as comfortable as socks). 

6.  Toughen up your feet.  Paint them every day with benzoin tincture for two weeks before the event.  It feels horrible and makes your toes stick together, but your feet will be as tough as leather.

7.  Wear black nylon socks under your boot socks.  It will put the friction on the socks and not your skin.

8.  Do upper body exercises - lift weights.  Bragg has several excellent gyms to work out in.

9.  Vary your workouts.  If you are doing road marches on your own (recommended), don't do them more often than every other day.  Do them after work, varying the distance and speed.  Make your first workout of the week a light one (speed and distance wise) and make the last one your longest and quickest.

10.  Above all, don't let anyone tell you that you should train with more than 40 lbs.  I'm serious.  You'll regret it later (for the rest of your life).

I almost posted without reading Gunner's advice.  Glad I read it.  This is exactly what I would have recommended. 

I like to consider myself a very good "rucker".  I was light infantry so we seemed to do a lot of ruck marches, with practical weight.  Granted, in combat, your ruck can weigh in excess of 100 lbs, but we never carried more than 50 lbs for training.  And yes, we weighed them, before and after.

The Army EIB standard for the ruck march portion of earning your Expert Infantryman's Badge is (or was) 12 miles in 3 hours (not one second more) with a 40 lb ruck sack.  That seemed to be our pace no matter what; 15 minute miles, sometimes faster.

NEVER WEAR BOXERS! 

If you can, throw your M4 in one hand, holding it just in front of the magazine, around the handguards.  We were never gigged for doing that.

Finally, in the book The SAS Personal Trainer by John "Lofty" Wiseman, there is a chapter about ruck marching.  Very good book for all around fitness.  I highly recommend it.

[Gunner C]

Stoney is right about the weight of a ruck.  I've jumped in with 130 lbs of light-weight gear and had to carry it for a week. But this is "training".  Just as you don't train for marathons by running marathons, don't do 55 lbs/20K workouts.  You'll be more than ready.  BTW, don't forget stretching before and after.  If you're like me, your bones are too long.  Stretch out those muscles.  Invest 10 or 15 minutes in it - your body will like you more for it.

I've seen the SAS Trainer.  It's good.  I went through SAS selection and I can tell you, they know their way around training a body.

[swamprat86]

I agree with the weight.  My ruck is usually no more thatn 35# when I train.

[Stonewall]

I googled "ruck marching" and found an article from Army Times....

Improve your ruck march in just 4 months.

[Gunner C]

I googled "ruck marching" and found an article from Army Times....

Improve your ruck march in just 4 months.

Boy, I wish someone would have had that back in 1976.  That's an excellent program.

[Stonewall]

In late 2000, I attended the 20th SFG's SFIP (Special Forces Indoctrination Program) at Ft. Pickett (they were stationed at AP Hill).  It was for ARNG folks who were interested in coming to the ARNG SF unit.  Before they sent you to SFAS on their dime, they wanted to see where you stood and assess whether or not your were worthy of a slot.

At the time it was a 4 month (4 drill/12 day) program.  2/3 of it was ruck marching and long land nav movements with a 50 lbs (again, weighed) ruck on your back.  It truly is amazing how many people crumble under a ruck.  I had trouble learning my stride in Infantry School.  It seemed like the drill sergeant's legs were barely moving but they were bookin' it (going fast).  By the time I got to my unit I was humping like a veteran 10th Mtn or 25th ID guy  (those two Infantry units are known as soldiers who can carry a ruck).

I often wonder if my back, ankle and knee problems are due to 10 years (even in the Army Guard for 5 years) ruck marching.

One thing I noticed is a lot of good runners were challenged by ruck marching and a lot of good ruck marchers were challenged by running.  Some people weren't made to do either.  I always thought I was good at both.

[swamprat86]

I was never a strong runner in high school but my cross country coach, a marine combat vet, always mentioned that I would never win a race but I would go forever because I master the Airborne shuffle.  That may be why I never noticed a difference between the two when I was in the Army.

[MIKE]

Can we make this thread CAP Talk relevant... instead of just a ruck march down memory lane?

[Stonewall]

Can we make this thread CAP Talk relevant... instead of just a ruck march down memory lane?

Many CAP members have hundreds of pounds of GSAR gear to include ruck sacks, but how often to they practice carrying those rucks for potential missions?  Gear is nice to have, but what good is it if you can't carry it.

CAP Ground Team Members should practice ruck marching and can learn from other members who have experience with this task.

Cadets ruck marching:

[RogueLeader]

I take rucking serious because we never know how far we may have to go to get to a crash site.  Even though the specifics are on how to be better at my Army training, the benits are to my CAP advantage as well.  I remember in my GT school, we had to ruck as well.  Not quite the 20k, but to those who are not used to rucking can get a use out of this as well, provided they are willing to do it.

Also, my hip joints have been grating the entire time I rucked.  Is there anything I can do to help that?

[Gunner C]

You can either stop now or you can wait until you need two hip replacements. BTW, I don't think that CAP will pay for that. 

[RogueLeader]

You can either stop now or you can wait until you need two hip replacements. BTW, I don't think that CAP will pay for that. 

Army would. If I could make the case that it was the cause.

[Gunner C]

You can either stop now or you can wait until you need two hip replacements. BTW, I don't think that CAP will pay for that. 

Army would. If I could make the case that it was the cause.

Have you seen the orthopods at Womack?  "To Cut Is To Cure" is their motto.  True, they do more orthopaedic work than anyone else in the world, but they also have students doing the surgery.  That's why I've waited until a year ago to start my "body work."