Hawk Mountain Transportation

[CHIEF HARB, JOSEPH]

A cadet in my squadron and I plan to go to Hawk this Summer-09. Everything is good it is just the travel. Does any one know of group vans or something of this sort. From Florida Wing.

Joseph J. Harb,C/CMSgt.CAP
1st Sgt
Jacksonville Composite Squadron
SER-FL-383

[Ozzy]

I'm not too sure about group vans, but be very careful if you intend to fly back from there. We had a cadet last year who was suppose to fly out after it, but after he was dropped off at the airport, they left. Due to the weather, many flights were canceled, including his, and he was stuck alone and without a clue on what to do for hours while our squadron DCC found out what to do, which was his parents drove from Long Island, NY to the airport to pick him up.

[Stonewall]

Chief,

Transportation to and from CAP Special Activities is the responsibility of the individual member.  That said, I have personally been involved with using a CAP van to ferry a group of members to a special activity before.

Perhaps this is something that you can work on yourself.  Start networking and see who in FL or GA plans to attend Hawk Mtn and coordinate a group effort to save money with transportation. 

Key issues you may face:

1.  If using a CAP van, this requires that a senior member drive.

2.  If a senior member drives, "crew rest" must be considered as the drive from Jacksonville to Hawk Mountain is about 900 miles or 14 hours (wild guess based on a 11 hour drive to DC and another 3 to Hawk).  Since a rest would be necessary, this may require an overnight stay somewhere, which means two seniors would be required.

3.  Cost of fuel, especially for a VAN.  Figure that gas could cost around $2.00, maybe more by this summer, that could be a huge cost for a round trip.  You're talking hundreds of dollars.

4.  Parents driving is an option, but how long is Hawk?  10 days?  A week?  Would parents want to do a 28 hour round trip to drop off and another parent pick up?  That's 56 hours of driving, plus costs of fuel, overnight stays, etc.

5.  Cadets driving themselves.  This is an issue itself.  Is it authorized?  Can cadets drive cadets to activities? 

I believe your best option is to fly.  I don't know the closest airport to Hawk Mountain (I drove there from DC when I went), but I did a quick search on www.delta.com for flights from JAX to MDT (Harrisburg, PA) on July 10th and returning on July 20th and found a flight for $228 ($270 after taxes, etc.).  I have no idea when Hawk is happening, nor do I know the airport, but I'm guessing that a roundtrip ticket booked well in advance may be your best bet.

Think about it.  2 1/2 hour flight (about a 4 hour process) versus a 14 hour/2-day drive, not to mention safety issues and logistics.  Save a few paychecks and get yourself a plane ticket.

Hooah?  Hooah.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Nearest airport to Hawk Mountain is Lehigh Valley International (ABE). Harrisburg and Philly International are the next closest.

For years my late father was one of those who did the PHL <> HMRS runs and ABE <> HMRS runs at the beginning and end of the school.

[CHIEF HARB, JOSEPH]

Thank you all for your replys  they are of much help. keep em commin.

[IceNine]

I'm not too sure about group vans, but be very careful if you intend to fly back from there. We had a cadet last year who was suppose to fly out after it, but after he was dropped off at the airport, they left. Due to the weather, many flights were canceled, including his, and he was stuck alone and without a clue on what to do for hours while our squadron DCC found out what to do, which was his parents drove from Long Island, NY to the airport to pick him up.

That to me is a failure of the activity staff. 

There should be a clearly defined procedure to safeguard these young cadets against such troubles.

Like a business card with details of who to call if you flight is delayed or canceled, Etc.

While it may be an inconvenience for the activity staff to have extra's hanging around, it can be down right scary for a cadet stuck in an airport with no clue what he needs to do.

[SarDragon]

Also, consider the fact that flying into regional airports is much more expensive than into major airports. A sample flight from JAX->PHL is about 80% of the cost of the same flight from JAX->ABE. Harrisburg is the most expensive.

Another example - the round trip fare from Detroit to Alpena MI, is more than the round trip from San Diego to Detroit. Instead of the second flight, I rented a car in Detroit.

[Stonewall]

//SIGNED//


Joseph J. Harb,C/CMSgt.CAP
1st Sergeant/Color Guard Commander
Jacksonville  Composite  Squadron SER-FL-383
Cadharb14@aol.com
(904)XXX-XXXX

Chief,

Take your phone number off your signature block.  Not cool.  In fact, do push-ups.

You may want to consider taking your email address out too.

[Pylon]

There's also bus service.  If you look in the full information packet about the Hawk summer school, you'll see that the school offers transportation to/from both LVI (Lehigh Valley International Airport) and the Allentown Bus Terminal.   So you may want to look into Greyhound/bus as a viable alternative.

The student can get that info in the full info packet at: http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/forms/2009%20school%20info%20HMRS%20web.doc

[Duke Dillio]

^^^  I think I'd rather be stuck in an air terminal than take the bus ride....  There be scary people on them buses.....

[JoeTomasone]

A cadet in my squadron and I plan to go to Hawk this Summer-09. Everything is good it is just the travel. Does any one know of group vans or something of this sort. From Florida Wing.

You can't motivate him enough to run it?   

(Encampment Joke)

[CHIEF HARB, JOSEPH]

A cadet in my squadron and I plan to go to Hawk this Summer-09. Everything is good it is just the travel. Does any one know of group vans or something of this sort. From Florida Wing.

You can't motivate him enough to run it?   

(Encampment Joke)

That is also an option. Thank you sir! :clap:

[CHIEF HARB, JOSEPH]

//SIGNED//


Joseph J. Harb,C/CMSgt.CAP
1st Sergeant/Color Guard Commander
Jacksonville  Composite  Squadron SER-FL-383
Cadharb14@aol.com
(904)XXX-XXXX

Chief,

Take your phone number off your signature block.  Not cool.  In fact, do push-ups.

You may want to consider taking your email address out too.

Thank you. Very good idea.

[SarDragon]

There's also bus service.  If you look in the full information packet about the Hawk summer school, you'll see that the school offers transportation to/from both LVI (Lehigh Valley International Airport) and the Allentown Bus Terminal.   So you may want to look into Greyhound/bus as a viable alternative.

The student can get that info in the full info packet at: http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/forms/2009%20school%20info%20HMRS%20web.doc

LVI != Lehigh Valley Airport.

Frm the IATA site:

LVI - Livingstone, Zambia - Livingstone

ABE is the code for the airport you are talking about. A flight from JAX -> LVI could be expensive.

$6,936, 34hrs 10min -  3 Stops, JAX->IAD->LHR->JNB->LVI

We now return ...

[sarmed1]

There is usually a group from south florida that makes the trek by vehicle....the downside to to flying is the decrease in luggage weights or number of pieces by some airlines in the last year.

Airport costs are sometimes dependant on what airline you fly and where they fly in and out of.  When I lived in AZ it was actually cheaper top fly from Phoenix to Harrisburg instead of Philly just beacuse of the airline that I usually flew, they were partnered with the carrier that flies into harrisburg saved usually like $75 (that was back in the late 90's though)
 
There is a smaller line that I see billboards for here in the Lehigh Vallry that advertieses $99 each way for ABE to somewhere in Florida.

mk

[gistek]

Does the AF still do the familiarization hops? Some cadets a few years ago told me they were able to tag along on a C-130 to go to an event.

Fort Indiantown Gap is pretty close to Hawk, and PAWG HQ is there.

I spoke with some people who came from upstate NY for the First Aid Weekend, and they're thinking about finding a cap unit or church that will allow them to stay overnight the night before.

My only other recommendation would be to charter a bus. They'll change drivers so you can travel continuously (with the recommended short stops for food & etc). Dividing the cost among a full bus load should still be pretty affordable.

If you don't have enough people from your area, contact CAP units you will travel near and see if they'd be interested in ride sharing.