Authorized use of CAP Aircraft

[blackrain]

I don't know if this has been addressed before but my question is this. As a Air Force civilian employee (GS) can I use CAP aircraft for official government travel? Has anyone done this before?

[arajca]

State directors can. I beleive (but I could be wrong) some CAP-USAF employees may be able to. Regular AF civilain employees without a working relationship to CAP cannot.

This is off the top of my head.

Check CAPR 60-1 for more accurate information!

[blackrain]

State directors can. I beleive (but I could be wrong) some CAP-USAF employees may be able to. Regular AF civilain employees without a working relationship to CAP cannot.

This is off the top of my head.

Check CAPR 60-1 for more accurate information!

Thanks, I will check CAPR 60-1
I admit I would rather fly myself in a 182 to some places that using the airlines.

[RiverAux]

I don't think you would be able to fly yourself in the CAP plane, but if you got someone in the AF to make the request that CAP fly you, I bet it could be done as an Air Force Assigned Mission.

[Pylon]

The government agency could make the request through the usual processes to the NOC (National Operations Center) for a mission.  The NOC can then best determine eligibility, make the connections and arrangements, determine who pay's and then handles all the complicated internal CAP stuff like mission numbers and signs, etc.

[Timbo]

For Civilian Employees....you would need to show travel via CAP aircraft to be cheaper than commercial or military.  What is the distance you are going anyway??  Check the Joint Travel Regs as well. 

[SJFedor]

I don't think you would be able to fly yourself in the CAP plane, but if you got someone in the AF to make the request that CAP fly you, I bet it could be done as an Air Force Assigned Mission.

Ehh....that kinda makes the flight needing to be operated under Part 135 as an on-demand carrier then. I don't think GS employees are covered under the CAP-USAF contract for use of our aircraft unless you're attached to CAP-USAF.

But yeah, read up on 60-1, and it probably couldn't hurt to talk to your boss, and have him talk to his boss, and so on and so forth.


But also remember, L-1 flights (flight code for AF Liason/CAP-USAF contract flights in CAP aircraft) have the absolute lowest priority for usage of aircraft.

[RiverAux]

Ehh....that kinda makes the flight needing to be operated under Part 135 as an on-demand carrier then. I don't think GS employees are covered under the CAP-USAF contract for use of our aircraft unless you're attached to CAP-USAF.

CAP does basic transportation missions for government employees every so often and we also did some during Katrina.  I wouldn't call this one of our more common missions, but I know my wing has done a few of them in the past several years.  There are special requirements for CAP pilots to perform such missions outlined in 60-1. 

If we can do a transportation mission for a state official, I think we could also do one for a civilian AF employee. 

[Timbo]

If we can do a transportation mission for a state official, I think we could also do one for a civilian AF employee. 

Different circumstances I would imagine.  It would have to be pretty important for an average AF Civilian to get transportation on a CAP aircraft. 

During Katrina that was different.  Flying State Officials is also different in that you were probably fostering good will between the Wing and State, and it was a Wing Commanders call. 

To start ferrying around government employees cause they don't want to sit business class, may actually not be the best business decision for both CAP and the FED.

We are not a taxi service, but will transport personnel when missions dictate, like during Katrina!   

[RiverAux]

Different circumstances I would imagine.  It would have to be pretty important for an average AF Civilian to get transportation on a CAP aircraft. 

Oh I agree that the chances of this getting approved by the AF would be slim, but it could be done. 

To start ferrying around government employees cause they don't want to sit business class, may actually not be the best business decision for both CAP and the FED.

Probably right about that.  Even with a CAP volunteer pilot, the cost for an airline seat is probably going to be cheaper in most cases. 

However, if we're talking about relatively short flights or when the person needs to get to an airport without regular commercial service, CAP might be a good choice.  We're certainly not set up to do this on a regular basis, but if it were to be done for AF employees or AF members, it would certainly fall within the scope of our mission to provide non-combat support to the AF. 

[Timbo]

We're certainly not set up to do this on a regular basis, but if it were to be done for AF employees or AF members, it would certainly fall within the scope of our mission to provide non-combat support to the AF. 

Agreed.  If it were a flight between Maxwell and say.....another airport that cap is stationed at in Alabama, I would be all for it.  But to just start flying around AF types because "they are Air Force", is not the organization I want to fly for.  I did not sign up to fly GS/Wage folks around, when they get a Per Diem and travel card.  UNLESS it is part of a larger mission, when they attach themselves to us, or we attach to them.

[RiverAux]

Well, AF pilots fly "AF types" around for transportation purposes all the time.  Theres nothing inherently wrong with that sort of mission.  If it could be done cheaper by CAP (an assumption), then overall it would benefit the AF, which is one of the reasons we are supposedly here.  Sure, it wouldn't be a glory mission, but there are a whole lot of folks in the AF doing worthwhile duties that never get the glory either. 

FYI, CG Aux Air flies around CG members every so often.

[Short Field]

I have seen local CAP members who are active duty military fly the CAP aircraft on their TDYs out of state instead of using other forms of transportation.   No one seemed to have a problem with it.  Paying CAP for the hours you fly is still cheaper than renting a similar airplane.

[RiverAux]

I think I found the definitive answer on the subject in AFI-10-2701:

2.2.7. Light Airlift. CAP may be assigned to transport priority personnel and cargo. These missions may be flown under any of the approved mission categories supporting operational missions and provide prudent cost effective support. For example, CAP may provide support to the AETC Mid-Air Collision Avoidance (MACA) Program by transporting Flying Safety Officers to outlying civil airfields.  CAP will not be used to support transportation to routine meetings and conferences.

So, basically the AF won't approve AFAM status for routine transport that would normally take place via commercial airline.  But, if it any sort of "operational" mission, either for CAP or the AF, then it would be possible. 

[blackrain]

Thanks for all of the replies. I was looking at flying myself (not using another pilot)and maybe one other coworker to a site visit to different engine maintenance facilities at different bases as well as training classes. I would even be willing to pay the difference between the cost of a commercial ticket and the aircraft. It sounds like it comes down to someone's definition of what is "routine". I frankly don't like flying commercial unless I absolutely have too and enjoy flying myself (as many of us do).

[RiverAux]

Depending on how much of your professional credibility you want to put on the line, you could send up a request to the appropriate combatant commander for CAP support, though I would think twice about serving as your own aircrew since if anything happened the AF would probably make you stick to whatever benefits were available to CAP members rather than what you would be due as a AF civilian employee.  And, of course, it would be up to CAP on who would fly the plane. 

[FW]

Thanks for all of the replies. I was looking at flying myself (not using another pilot)and maybe one other coworker to a site visit to different engine maintenance facilities at different bases as well as training classes. I would even be willing to pay the difference between the cost of a commercial ticket and the aircraft. It sounds like it comes down to someone's definition of what is "routine". I frankly don't like flying commercial unless I absolutely have too and enjoy flying myself (as many of us do).

I'll give you a short and simple answer.  NO! This type of flying would be considered personal use of the aircraft and is strictly forbidden.  This can't be considered CAP related business, can't be considered proficiency flying nor can it be considered an AFAM.  DO NOT TRY THIS.   Trust me.  I've seen corporated officers (wing and region/cc's) go down in flames for trying this stuff.  It isn't worth it.  Just rent an aircraft from the local FBO.

[RiverAux]

Did you miss where he said that the purpose of the flight would be to carry out official AF business? 

[FW]

Yes.  
This would not be considered "Official use of CAP assets".  He would be using the aircraft to get to his job which happens to be "official Air Force business".  He would be using the aircraft as a CAP member.  He is not a CAP employee nor would he be a passenger in a CAP aircraft being transported for any mission supported by CAP.  Riv, the Air Force would look very poorly on this type of use for the aircraft.  Not only would he jeopardise his membership, he could jeopardise the membership of the FRO, unit commander and wing commander.  He could also possibly be terminated from his employment.  I doubt if this is worth the effort. It would be much easier for the member to just rent an aircraft from the local FBO and fly to an airport close by.

[RiverAux]

And did you also miss where I suggested that he go through the formal process that the AF must follow to request the use of CAP for AF business?  If that process were followed, none of the dire consequences you mention would come into play.  If he just called the FRO to check out an aircraft, you would be right, but that is not what was suggested.