Unit Citation ribbon wear finally clarified!

[dwb]

CAP/CC Memo (PDF)

Unit Citation Award. The Unit Citation Award ribbon may only be worn by members assigned to the unit during any portion of the period of time shown in the National Headquarters Personnel Action announcing the award. Individuals who join the unit at a later date are not authorized to wear the Unit Citation Ribbon.

It's about time someone put the kibosh on the idea of joining a unit and instantly wearing x citations.

[0]

This has already been posted.  Use the search function.

[citizensoldier]

What about active duty unit citations?  My unit got a MUC while we were in Iraq and I was part of the unit.

[Stonewall]

CS,

This is solely for the CAP unit citations.

Your military unit citations can be worn along with your other military ribbons.  However, the Air Force and CAP do not wear military citiations on the wearer's right side, but incorporated with the regular ribbons.

NOTE:  I began this reply about an hour ago before getting interupted at work so this may have been answered already.

[Flying Pig]

OK.....what did I miss?  I thought it was always that you had to be part of the unit during the times stated in the citation?

[citizensoldier]

CS,

This is solely for the CAP unit citations.

Your military unit citations can be worn along with your other military ribbons.  However, the Air Force and CAP do not wear military citiations on the wearer's right side, but incorporated with the regular ribbons.

NOTE:  I began this reply about an hour ago before getting interupted at work so this may have been answered already.

Cool.  How do you do that when it has that gold metalic border that makes putting it on a rack a bit difficult?

CS

[IceNine]

OK.....what did I miss?  I thought it was always that you had to be part of the unit during the times stated in the citation?

You missed nothing.  It was always this way but it was clearly unclear in the reg's

[jb512]

CS,

This is solely for the CAP unit citations.

Your military unit citations can be worn along with your other military ribbons.  However, the Air Force and CAP do not wear military citiations on the wearer's right side, but incorporated with the regular ribbons.

NOTE:  I began this reply about an hour ago before getting interupted at work so this may have been answered already.

Cool.  How do you do that when it has that gold metalic border that makes putting it on a rack a bit difficult?

CS

The AF uses smaller gold frames that will fit onto the ribbon rack on the left side.

[Flying Pig]

CS,

This is solely for the CAP unit citations.

Your military unit citations can be worn along with your other military ribbons.  However, the Air Force and CAP do not wear military citiations on the wearer's right side, but incorporated with the regular ribbons.

NOTE:  I began this reply about an hour ago before getting interupted at work so this may have been answered already.

Cool.  How do you do that when it has that gold metalic border that makes putting it on a rack a bit difficult?

CS

The AF uses smaller gold frames that will fit onto the ribbon rack on the left side.

You beat me to it!  You have to get the USAF one.  Its not as thick.


Jaybird....shouldnt you be somewhere doing a weight and balance or something?

[Stonewall]

There are some military unit awards that aren't made in the smaller size.  I have the Army Superior Unit Award which is exclusive to the Army.  I had to take a frame off an AF citation and switch it with the big one that came with the award.

Or, if you order a set through thinribbons.com, they do it for you.

[jb512]

CS,

This is solely for the CAP unit citations.

Your military unit citations can be worn along with your other military ribbons.  However, the Air Force and CAP do not wear military citiations on the wearer's right side, but incorporated with the regular ribbons.

NOTE:  I began this reply about an hour ago before getting interupted at work so this may have been answered already.

Cool.  How do you do that when it has that gold metalic border that makes putting it on a rack a bit difficult?

CS

The AF uses smaller gold frames that will fit onto the ribbon rack on the left side.

You beat me to it!  You have to get the USAF one.  Its not as thick.


Jaybird....shouldnt you be somewhere doing a weight and balance or something?

You go get back in your egg beater and leave the heavy stuff to me...  

We had a half day today and we're packing up for Christmas leave.  I'll do my final week of school when I get back and then pin on my wings on January 13th!

Of course, then I still have SERE, IQT, etc, etc...

And... um... unit citation.  There, kept the topic in my post.

[Flying Pig]

I could probably fly my egg beater in that thing...wearing my unit citation

[Hawk200]

There are some military unit awards that aren't made in the smaller size.  I have the Army Superior Unit Award which is exclusive to the Army.  I had to take a frame off an AF citation and switch it with the big one that came with the award.

Or, if you order a set through thinribbons.com, they do it for you.

I remember seeing the Air Force size frames sold separately at a few different mil clothing stores. I had no idea what they were for, so I asked one of the employees. She also told that me it is actually possible to wear them with the frame upside down. I managed to help a few folks out that did it after I found that out.

[NIN]

Yeah, that wear policy has only been in question off and on since it was originally changed around 1979 or 1980.

WIWAC in 1981, I was told "Here, wear this green ribbon."

"What is it for?" asks the ever-inquisitive Cadet Airman Basic.

"Unit citation. Our group got one in like 1977 for having three squadron in the top units in the country all at once. Or something like that.  Anyway, don't ask questions, cadet, just wear it."

That was pretty much the answer I gave a month and a half later at Summer Encampment when the IG went up one side of me and down the other for wearing "ribbons you're not even authorized to wear, cadet!"  Yeah, well, "Because my CO, the guy who out ranks me by like a factor of 7,000,  told me to wear it, sir!" is apparently not sufficient enough of an answer for an Airman Basic to give when confronted with that particular conundrum.  (like me with 6 weeks in CAP knew bupkis about CAPR 39-3....)

Fast forward to the late 1990s, when my wing commander (who, at the time of his appointment as wing commander, was not qualified to wear the Red Service Ribbon, if you take my meaning), got into a gigantic argument with me about "what the regulation really means here.." and "how they do it in the real Air Force."   The whole "permanent" and "temporary" thing in the regs really confused him.  Enough so that he thought he'd tell me (a guy who was quite nearly a 20 year veteran of the program at that point, and had essentially lived thru "dark and confusing times" immediately after the regulation was changed) what the writers of the reg intended.  I took about 5 minutes and outlined the history of that reg change back to the 1979 or 1980 change the brought about all the confusion.  And of course, he says "Well, I didn't know anything about all that!"  (and the whole time I'm thinking "If you'd stop trying to explain to me the mistaken impression you got third-hand from someone at the Wing Commander's course over a year ago, coupled with your nearly 20 year old remembery of how the Air Force handles unit citations, and just listen to a guy who has a full understanding of what the regulation says, including the organization's intent based on a telephone conversation with Renova Williams, you'd be a LOT further ahead right now... Sir.")

*sigh*

Glad someone decided to clarify that crap.  It was unclear in 1981, and nobody has ever really done much to "clarify" it since.

[Timbo]

^ That story is like many situations I am sure many Members have faced.  I remember a brand new 1st Lt Squadron Commander who was in CAP less than anyone else in the SQD, including the newest Cadet, and he walks in the first week after the Change of Command wearing a UC, with two devices attached.  He lasted just under 4 months, and we never saw him again. 

Then there was the Wing Commander who decided all the members of his Wing will wear the Wing Patch, unless you went to Hawk Mountain then you get to wear your HAWK patch in place of the Wing Patch there, and at the Sarex that year he had the guts to yell at a group of Cadets from a SQD who placed their Blue Beret patch in place of their Wing Patch, because they believed (along with many) that the policy was to place Special Activity patches in place of the Wing Patch, not just the Hawk Patches.  My Wing has for a very long time not had written policy letters, just the "word of mouth" type thing going on.

I am happy to finally see some type of clarification on the UC Award.  Now if we could only get the members to follow the guidance.

NIN.......I bet the unit citation you were forced to wear when you first joined felt kind of good.  I remember when I was told to put one on when I first joined as a Cadet felt good also.  Then kind of felt bad after I was forced to remove it when the Unit got a SQD Commander who actually carried the Regs around with him.     

[IceNine]

I also lived a similar experience NIN.  I was told to take mine off around 2000.

It amazes me that I had to have this exact conversation with one of my unit commander's just a few months ago.

a 1/4 century and we are finally just now clearing this up.

[Eclipse]

History shows that cleared up or not, there will be lpenty of members who refuse to change their racks.

[Stonewall]

+1 with NIN's experience.  I told it in a different thread just a few days ago.  Joined CAP and before I had a stripe I had a green ribbon with two clasps.  I was told to wear it and a good cadet does what he is told.

And for those of you wearing military unit citations, the wheat in the frame "grows up".  Yes, you can have the metal frame upside down.

This is the Army Superior Unit Award that I was awarded while serving in a unit:

And here is a rack I found online with two different unit awards mixed in with the AF ribbons.

[Stonewall]

Sorry, I'm really trying to illustrate this for folks...   

Here is the perfect example of the difference between Unit awards for the Army vs for the Air Force...

 

[Timbo]

^ Worn in two different locations as well??  AF= on ribbons side, while Army= on nameplate side

[Eclipse]

You know there's also the option of not wearing all your military ribbons on your CAP uniform, especially if its hard to find or doesn't fit right.

I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking about short-stacking mine, and all I have is what you see below.

[lordmonar]

And here is a rack I found online with two different unit awards mixed in with the AF ribbons.

Actually there are three.

The Joint Meritours Unit (top one with a gold frame), AF Meritorious Unit, and the AF Outstanding Unit awards.

The bottom one with a gold frame is the AF Expeditionary Service Ribbon with a gold frame to denote a depoyment to a combat zone.

[Jimbo]

CAP/CC Memo (PDF)

Unit Citation Award. The Unit Citation Award ribbon may only be worn by members assigned to the unit during any portion of the period of time shown in the National Headquarters Personnel Action announcing the award. Individuals who join the unit at a later date are not authorized to wear the Unit Citation Ribbon.

It's about time someone put the kibosh on the idea of joining a unit and instantly wearing x citations.

So where is the link to all of the published NHQ personnel actions so we can verify and see for what dates units got them from? 

[IceNine]

Doesn't exist. 

[Jimbo]

Doesn't exist. 

My point exactly...This would be a fairly simlpple way for NHQ to track it and have a database.  That is how unit awards are captured for the Air Force.  Just go to the personnel center website, and you can search for units and it will show you the dates...

[IceNine]

The issue is that in this organization of 60,000+ there are 3-4 people at NHQ that are actually tracking/entering data into e-services.

Trying to add the burden of tracking awards from all levels (those being awarded from now group through NHQ) amounts to at the very least 1-2 more personnel at NHQ.  Which equates to $60,000+/- a year.

The better option IMHO would be as we've discussed here on several occasions would be to put that money towards a field managed system where awards (both PD, and achievement) are input and managed through e-services.  We already have the system in place its a matter of adjusting the system to allow the expansion that this would require.

[Jimbo]

Nuts and bolts... both are viable solutions, and better off than the current.   

Start the out of the box thinking, they could add some volunteers on national staff, OR modify eServices in a quasi-way like you suggested, where the nominating agency enters the award and scope along with dates, and they are simply sent to the approver.  The NHQ function would just to have an automatic report generator capability... OR some other idea that I am too tired to think about right now

[ThorntonOL]

I've tracked mine down useing all my old CAP NEWS newspapers and currently allowed to wear the bar plus 1 star for the ones that Northeast Region and NY Wing recieved around 2002.
I think I have copies of all the newsletters from Sept or Oct of 2000 until our last National commander changed the format. Not sure have to take inventory again of my stuff.

[sandman]

Doesn't exist. 

My point exactly...This would be a fairly simlpple way for NHQ to track it and have a database.  That is how unit awards are captured for the Air Force.  Just go to the personnel center website, and you can search for units and it will show you the dates...

Just as an example from the other services:

Navy Department Awards Web Service (NDAWS)
https://awards.navy.mil/awards/webbas01.nsf/(vwWebPage)/home.htm?OpenDocument

US Army
https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/active/tagd/awards/index.htm

Perhaps CAP web designers could add a similar link?

[rdmcii]

For what it's worth, in my long service in Civil Air Patrol this is the Fourth change in the regulations in the wear, no wear unit citation. Am glad to see a direct clarification on what is desired, because I can see why there is confusion.

Until the next change,
Cheers,

[Eclipse]

For what it's worth, in my long service in Civil Air Patrol this is the Fourth change in the regulations in the wear, no wear unit citation. Am glad to see a direct clarification on what is desired, because I can see why there is confusion.

I'm not sure what you mean by wear / no wear. No one's ever been told not to wear a CA they earned.

This is simply a clarification of what to most was common sense that the unit citation is awarded to a specific group of people, not a perpetual award for transient unit members.

[rdmcii]

Sorry for my short hand - when I joined it was in the 39-3 that you could wear the Unit Citaion if you earned it OR during your tenure in a unit that had received it.

Then they changed it to only if you earned it

then they brought back the 'also only while in unit if you have not earned it" stuff (I hope you know what I mean)

this last round they rather ambigiously dropped it until the latest clarification

Now that their room for arguement, I see this as the first step toward reversing the whole thing. That is, now that those that wear it and have not earned it have no room to argue that it is OK, they will more forcefully lobby to change the regs again (number 5)

Just my observation

(BTW, I have 5, all earned)

[Hawk200]

Sorry for my short hand - when I joined it was in the 39-3 that you could wear the Unit Citaion if you earned it OR during your tenure in a unit that had received it.

I know that's how the Army does it, Air Force only if you were in the unit for the time period mentioned in the citation.

To be blunt about it, people that weren't there for the period cited don't deserve it. They didn't contribute to the unit's mission at the time of the citation, so as far as I'm concerned they're wearing something they haven't earned (or more accurately contributed to the unit earning).

I think the same thing of the Army unit citation, I don't feel right about wearing something when I didn't contribute to unit for that time period. Nice thing about the Army Guard, noone gives anyone any hassle if they don't wear it for that reason.

[TeamBronx]

The "old way" of determining who wore the unit citation always made sense to me.  The unit was recognized by the streamer and ribbon.  New cadet basics when they first wore the uniform just had the one ribbon and it made them seem to be a part of the organization.  I know that when I joined in 1967 at fifteen, it was a mark of being accepted.  The cadet recruits needed to know what the unit citations were for.  They were told how each of the citations was earned and they needed to know this information.  This heritage was their heritage

I've taken my six (earned while a unit member) citations with me wherever I went.  After transferring I never wore any that were earned by my former units when I was not a member.

Regulations and policies change and we should follow them.  I just think that the unit's historical recognition and heritage gets lost in the mix.  If CAP history is a guide, in five, or seven, or ten years, the unit citation rules will change again.

[arajca]

The problem occurs when a member transfers and doesn't take off the unearned UC's. As far as most are concerned (I've had to deal with a couple), they've earned it because they were in that unit - even though it was NOT during the cited period. They do not accept the notion of 'temporary wear' or 'wear while a member of the unit'.

From what I've heard from these members, they don't have a clue about the unit's history or hertiage, they were just told to put the ribbon on.

[Hawk200]

The problem occurs when a member transfers and doesn't take off the unearned UC's. As far as most are concerned (I've had to deal with a couple), they've earned it because they were in that unit - even though it was NOT during the cited period. They do not accept the notion of 'temporary wear' or 'wear while a member of the unit'.

From what I've heard from these members, they don't have a clue about the unit's history or hertiage, they were just told to put the ribbon on.

Now, I'm starting to wonder how many people I've seen with two, three or five of them had them in the same manner. Guess I'll just have to make a hard copy of the ICL and start carrying it with me.

[PHall]

The problem occurs when a member transfers and doesn't take off the unearned UC's. As far as most are concerned (I've had to deal with a couple), they've earned it because they were in that unit - even though it was NOT during the cited period. They do not accept the notion of 'temporary wear' or 'wear while a member of the unit'.

From what I've heard from these members, they don't have a clue about the unit's history or hertiage, they were just told to put the ribbon on.

Now, I'm starting to wonder how many people I've seen with two, three or five of them had them in the same manner. Guess I'll just have to make a hard copy of the ICL and start carrying it with me.

And become the self-appointed "Ribbon Police". Yeah, that will make you a lot of new friends.

[IceNine]

Isn't saying "NO" the primary role of a commander anyway? 

[Eclipse]

Isn't saying "NO" the primary role of a commander anyway? 

Yep.  If we don't do it, who will?

[Hawk200]

And become the self-appointed "Ribbon Police". Yeah, that will make you a lot of new friends.

I'm a Personnel officer, nothing "self appointed" about it. I'm expected to know. And there are far too many people that "self award" too many things. A lot of CAP personnel are very fortunate that they aren't held accountable under Federal law in the same manner that people wearing unearned military awards are held accountable.

It's a matter of policing ourselves. Those with integrity will never have anything to worry about from me. Those just unaware probably won't have a problem with it. The ones that demand the right to wear something they haven't earned aren't trustworthy. What else will they claim that they haven't the right to? Far too much stolen honor in our society. Isn't there an old adage about doing nothing being evil in itself?

[RiverAux]

Some of the problem of people wearing unearned awards could be solved if CAP had a system for tracking awards on a national level that was open for everyone to view.  For example, I can determine exactly what awards any Auxie in the country has a right to wear. 

If people know that there is a way for people to check to see if they really have earned an award, they might not be so quick to order one from Vanguard. 

It won't solve the problem entirely, but might help.

[Hawk200]

Some of the problem of people wearing unearned awards could be solved if CAP had a system for tracking awards on a national level that was open for everyone to view. 

I like the idea. The only issue might be obtaining someone's CAPID, it's the only way to really identify the person. Other than that, we wear the ribbons on our chest for all to see, no reason why you shouldn't be able to look at it on the web.

[Eclipse]

This starts and ends at the home unit.

You simply have a rack review party - explain why you're doing it, and have everyone bring in their substantiation.

Can't substantiate first round? It goes into the "check this" pile - story makes sense, write a notarized memo for the file and move on, doesn't, it comes off until the member can substantiate the ribbon.

[Hawk200]

This starts and ends at the home unit.

You simply have a rack review party - explain why you're doing it, and have everyone bring in their substantiation.

Can't substantiate first round? It goes into the "check this" pile - story makes sense, write a notarized memo for the file and move on, doesn't, it comes off until the member can substantiate the ribbon.

Hmm, I like that idea, too. Would take a little longer, and someone wouldn't be able to say "Oh, I was just put in for it". And it's policing ourselves, which we need to do anyway.

Maybe we should also consider part of our training as to what decs mean, and what it means to wear something you haven't earned. I've run into a few people that literally did not know better. Education could save everyone from embarrassment.

[RiverAux]

Some of the problem of people wearing unearned awards could be solved if CAP had a system for tracking awards on a national level that was open for everyone to view. 

I like the idea. The only issue might be obtaining someone's CAPID, it's the only way to really identify the person. Other than that, we wear the ribbons on our chest for all to see, no reason why you shouldn't be able to look at it on the web.

The way the CG Aux does it is to allow you to search by the unit (as well as other options) and have all the members of that unit listed.  So, unless you happen to have 2 John Smith's in your squadron, there isn't much chance for confusion. 

However, if I were re-working the Aux site I probably would limit member's searching capability a bit sort of like CAP members have -- they only get access to records at their unit level or below (for higher level staff).