Paint Ball for Cadets

[Eclipse]

As he said, the NRA is hardly an objective source for statistics about a program it is advocating.

The NEA or a similar would probably be a better choice, but they likely don't compile those sorts of stats.

[SM-MADDOG]

As for the 2 senior member rule, this thing is crazy. I know the group commander has said We must have 2 senior members for activities and night activities. Thats the way it's been done since I joined in 06. I wish they would get with it and look at the regulations and decide how is suppose to be done.

There is no regulatory basis for requiring more than one senior member at a cadet activity.  Commanders are free to publish their own, local, SOP's, but barring that its just a wives tale.

52-16 and 52-10 are the documents that govern the cadet program and cadet protection.

As to paintball off-duty, read this thread and probably the 10+ other here and on CS to see that by no means is this a clear situation.  Whenever CAP members gather together for anything, whether or not that gathering becomes a CAP it is a CAP activity, officially or unofficially, might be the subjective call of an IG or judge, especially where it concerns senior members meeting, for whatever reason, with cadets (the 'parent exclusion" not withstanding).

The average senior member has no reason to meet or spend time with the average cadet, and when they "happen to show up at the same place..." no one is fooling anybody and any consequences of the situation are deserved by all parties.

In the Benning situation, I can't see how anyone would think that isn't connected to CAP - how else are they getting access to the base?  Flashing your ID card for access?  Then while you're on base, you're in CAP - 100%, er go...

Yeah thats what I thought yet the group commander says different. Also I dont know if You seen this in 2006 when I went to join CAP it said Senior members didnt have to buy a uniform. Well the group commander made it a rule that if a SM wasnt in uniform they had to go home. He said the squadron commander or who ever is incharge must tell them to go home. Anyone heard of this? I go by the rules/regulations so what ever they say I will do it. But I didn't like that rule, lol. Just my personal feeling on it.

Oh I agree that a SM dont need to be with cadets off duty. And thats not what I ment by the friends going to to do paintball.

Thanks for the reply, helpes clear up stuff by talking to people outside of the group or squadron on the issue.

[Eclipse]

Yeah thats what I thought yet the group commander says different. Also I dont know if You seen this in 2006 when I went to join CAP it said Senior members didnt have to buy a uniform. Well the group commander made it a rule that if a SM wasnt in uniform they had to go home. He said the squadron commander or who ever is incharge must tell them to go home. Anyone heard of this? I go by the rules/regulations so what ever they say I will do it. But I didn't like that rule, lol. Just my personal feeling on it.

Of course, Seniors always have to be in uniform when interacting with cadets, and this certainly isn't new as of 2006.

[SM-MADDOG]

Yeah thats what I thought yet the group commander says different. Also I dont know if You seen this in 2006 when I went to join CAP it said Senior members didnt have to buy a uniform. Well the group commander made it a rule that if a SM wasnt in uniform they had to go home. He said the squadron commander or who ever is incharge must tell them to go home. Anyone heard of this? I go by the rules/regulations so what ever they say I will do it. But I didn't like that rule, lol. Just my personal feeling on it.

Of course, Seniors always have to be in uniform when interacting with cadets, and this certainly isn't new as of 2006.

CAP's web site said senior members could serve without a uniform. However maybe they took that off the web site. Thats what I was speaking about www.cap.gov

[SM-MADDOG]

As he said, the NRA is hardly an objective source for statistics about a program it is advocating.

The NEA or a similar would probably be a better choice, but they likely don't compile those sorts of stats.

Yeah, if You call NRA they allot of times can direct where to look up certain things and from certain federal agencies such as FBI and so on. Allot of the stats and things the NRA speaks about are backed up by evidence again such as stats and what not. They take it from places such as FBI, and many other federal/state/local agencies. Also doing a search on line will help find allot of information.

[Eclipse]

CAP's web site said senior members could serve without a uniform. However maybe they took that off the web site. Thats what I was speaking about www.cap.gov

I can't imagine why it would ever say that.

Yes, you could potentially perform some staff work or other GIB jobs without even the most basic golf shirt, but nothing "front of house" with cadets, nothing in ES, and nothing in or around an airplane.  That doesn't leave a whole lot of duty left that's attractive from a recruiting standpoint.

We all wind up mired in administrivia, but rare is the member who signs up specifically to process WBP forms and CAPF 2s.

"Join CAP and see...the back room of the hanger!"  Not really very catchy.

[Rotorhead]

Also doing a search on line will help find allot of information.

Well, you made the claim, so I think it is incumbent upon you to back it up.

I don't believe it is accurate.

[EMT-83]

We all wind up mired in administrivia, but rare is the member who signs up specifically to process WBP forms and CAPF 2s.

Funny, that's exactly why I joined. When my son was a new cadet, a few conversations with the squadron CC told me that they really needed an admin guy. No problem, I can fit that into my busy schedule.

A couple of back seat rides turned into Mission Scanner... and we all know the rest of the story. CAP is like another freakin' part-time job.

To keep this somewhat on topic - I never do paintball with cadets, except my son. Maybe it's the admin guy in me, but the rules seem pretty clear.

[SM-MADDOG]

Also doing a search on line will help find allot of information.

Well, you made the claim, so I think it is incumbent upon you to back it up.

I don't believe it is accurate.

Thats okay if You dont believe it or not. People could make the same claim for civil air patrol cadets, however We all know what the cadet program does. Also I spoke about the eddie eagle program and that governments provide grants to teach such a program to childeren. But again wether we believe something or not that is our rights. I didn't know allot of things till I joined NRA, I thought being a police explorer I did. Yes I knew allot of knowledge from explorers yet Did I really like I thought? No. Just as I stated as an explorer our policy was if you were in high school you must earn a "C" avg at least, yet the high schools sport teams amoung other programs only required a "D" average. I knew of one police dept that required at least a C + avg or better. They also had tough PT requirements. If You did not improve you could be cut lose from the program. That's why I like programs like explorers, CAP cadet's etc. It gives them a reason to get passing grades.

When I was an explorer before I joined I was getting barley passing grades really. That year My best I got was a B or C, mostly barley passing. I joined over the summer. My first quarter back in school I started with a 4.0 GPA. My best grades were mostly B's or C's. Thats what I mean about programs like that. Of course it still depends on the person. They will either make it or not. So yes shooting programs do that just as programs like CAP cadet program does. Im not saying everyone who ever does it will make it. That depends on them, but as a whole those programs do stand out.

Stay Safe All

[SM-MADDOG]

CAP's web site said senior members could serve without a uniform. However maybe they took that off the web site. Thats what I was speaking about www.cap.gov

I can't imagine why it would ever say that.

Yes, you could potentially perform some staff work or other GIB jobs without even the most basic golf shirt, but nothing "front of house" with cadets, nothing in ES, and nothing in or around an airplane.  That doesn't leave a whole lot of duty left that's attractive from a recruiting standpoint.

We all wind up mired in administrivia, but rare is the member who signs up specifically to process WBP forms and CAPF 2s.

"Join CAP and see...the back room of the hanger!"  Not really very catchy.

Yeah thats why I joined so quick when I was researching CAP. I really didn't have the money at the time (i still dont lol). Anyways I was workin allot of over time and seen that CAP was more flexible for senior members than other groups. When I joined I realized that I did need a uniform. I bought the golf pull over shirt, already had the pants. A 4 months later I bought the senior uniform white shirt, etc.

[SM-MADDOG]

Also what I spoke about the Eddie Eagle program here ia an article on line that tells the stats they researced from the National Safety Council and stats they got from the ATF a federal law enforcement agency. They have another federal agency which quotes the same thing but I can't think of it. Its some federal health agency. However this article does provides link's to the NSC I believe. Which shows what I stated that the accidents declined. I always take the Media with a grain of salt so to say. It depends on the network and what they wish to say. Just as Dan Rather was fired for making false statements about various topics and people/groups. I always try to look for the truth of things rather than what someone in a suit on tv says.

They pick and chose what to tell and sometimes in some cases lie or mislead about certain topics. We all know we must research to find things and the truth. Also incase You dont know the federal government has a regulation on people and groups that within a certain time frame of a presidential election they can not put anything on tv about either of the people running. I heard that one female senator wants to target the internet. That is First Admendment rights, yet some in the government want to try and get rid of those. That's all I will say of any of that. I think that was the Campaign Refinance regulation. Look all of those up. As I said this is all I will say on any of it. Below is the link for those that have asked about certain things and may research it if they wish or not. You all have a good day stay safe

http://guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvacci.html

[Rotorhead]

Also what I spoke about the Eddie Eagle program here ia an article on line that tells the stats they researced from the National Safety Council and stats they got from the ATF a federal law enforcement agency. They have another federal agency which quotes the same thing but I can't think of it. Its some federal health agency. However this article does provides link's to the NSC I believe. Which shows what I stated that the accidents declined.

That's fine, but you said kids do better in school, i.e., get better grades, when they learn to shoot. This article doesn't say that and you haven't provided a link to any evdience that does. 

Just because, you, personally did better doesn't make the statement objectively true. Correlation does not imply causation. I suspect you can't prove it because there's never been any proof to back up the claim that "teaching kids to shoot helps them do better in school."

I'd also like to see evidence to back up your new claim that, "the federal government has a regulation on people and groups that within a certain time frame of a presidential election they can not put anything on tv about either of the people running," because I know that isn't true. Campaign Finance regualtion does no such thing.

[RogueLeader]

As he said, the NRA is hardly an objective source for statistics about a program it is advocating.

The NEA or a similar would probably be a better choice, but they likely don't compile those sorts of stats.

The NEA. . .   The National Educators Association being a better choice.  Don't make me laugh.  The NEA is anti-weapon as you can get, with the exception of some Radical Liberals.
At least the NRA does pull its stats from truely independant orgs, such as the FBI.

[Rotorhead]

At least the NRA does pull its stats from truely independant orgs, such as the FBI.

As long as those stats suit their purpose. The NRA is an interest group, and is "as pro-weapon as you can get," to use your terminology.

They would never tout stats that tend to discredit their point of view.

[RogueLeader]

at least all the NRA's claims can be backed by independant verification, unlike the NEA; but thats off topic.

as for if cadets should paintball or not, is above my paygrade.

[davidsinn]

Can anyone tell me when this rule(banning paintball) was enacted and what the original reasoning was?

[lordmonar]

Can anyone tell me when this rule(banning paintball) was enacted and what the original reasoning was?

It's been around for at least the last five years....and I get the feeling it was old even back then.

Reasoning?  1.  Liabilty.  2. It's too military.

[DC]

Can anyone tell me when this rule(banning paintball) was enacted and what the original reasoning was?

It's been around for at least the last five years....and I get the feeling it was old even back then.

Reasoning?  1.  Liabilty.  2. It's too military.

Playing a sport is too military, but wearing uniforms, marching around, and shooting M-16s at encampment isn't?

[PHall]

Can anyone tell me when this rule(banning paintball) was enacted and what the original reasoning was?

It's been around for at least the last five years....and I get the feeling it was old even back then.

Reasoning?  1.  Liabilty.  2. It's too military.

Playing a sport is too military, but wearing uniforms, marching around, and shooting M-16s at encampment isn't?

At Encampment you usually don't have people shooting at you.

The ban came about due to a cadet who got hurt while doing paintball as a CAP activity.
The parents sued and you can probably figure out the rest.