Rotary wing to fixed wing ....

[Capt Rivera]

Has anyone been successful with using the following:

e. With wing and region commander approval, an add-on single-engine land rating is authorized for pilots with an FAA powered private or better certificate. (Use mission symbol C17.)

(Got the quote for KB)

The situation I am presented is a Rotary wing pilot (inst, CFI, Commercial), who is NOT currently a fixed wing pilot. Is there precedent on using the above info to get approval for said pilot to train in CAP A/C toward his fixed wing ratings?

[DNall]

Sounds like an Army pilot. That's what you come back from Rucker with.

Rotary pilots doing fixed wing upgrade are at NO point student pilots. They are FAA rated pilots training toward additional ratings, just like a PPL training toward instrument.

The language from that quote sounds exactly like the FAA language covering the upgrade from rotary. So, I'm very highly inclined to believe that it's a Wg/CC approval & yes you can do it.

There's a really good article on this process I'll try to go find for you.

Here you go, good read:
http://www.jetcareers.com/content/view/112/220/

[Climbnsink]

Just a heads up for ya as airplane CFIs don't run into this that often.  If you endorse a rated pilot for solo privileges that endorsement never expires unless you specifically add an expiration date.  Not only could this pilot fly indefinitely on a solo endorsement they are not bound by the geographical limits of student pilots and they even better they don't need a current flight review to exercise solo privileges.  Oh so much fun.  Anyway put an expiration date on the solo endorsement you can make it as long as you want.

[DNall]

That's an interesting technicality, thanks for bringing that up.

I would very strongly advise you have your guy look over that link I posted. CFI/flight schools almost never deal with this kind of situation, and most likely will not know the rules/details. This link breaks it down real simple with all the reg references.

[rightstuffpilot]

Generally the few exceptions to the rule are made up in Alaska where there are minimal qualified CFI's or FBO's that give instruction.  CAP is not designed to give Student instruction to Senior Members(for ASEL).  My guess is that the Wing Commander will say no.  Especially baring the situation, there are plenty of opportunities for this CFI to get his ASEL Commercial other than through Civil Air Patrol.  He also will not be able to complete complex and spin requirements required to complete CFI Airplane.

[DNall]

Generally the few exceptions to the rule are made up in Alaska where there are minimal qualified CFI's or FBO's that give instruction.  CAP is not designed to give Student instruction to Senior Members(for ASEL).  My guess is that the Wing Commander will say no.  Especially baring the situation, there are plenty of opportunities for this CFI to get his ASEL Commercial other than through Civil Air Patrol.  He also will not be able to complete complex and spin requirements required to complete CFI Airplane.

CAP does extensive flight instruction for senior members. They just have to be PPL already. At that point, they absolutely can use CAP aircraft to log PIC time and receive instruction from CAP CFIs toward additional ratings. That happens in every wing, and well it should.

This is not "student instruction." At no time is this individual a student pilot. This is adding an additional type rating.

That said, this guy would need 10hrs instruction in complex, and can't do the 50 solo hrs in CAP aircraft, so best case is you can do 10hrs toward the 70 total he needs.

[rightstuffpilot]

Ok, so the key part about what I said is student.  I understand that everyone is able to do flight training beyond private.  He still would be a student for fixed wing flying.  He would still need to have a student pilots license because he COULD not hold a private, commercial, or otherwise from right off the bat for ASEL otherwise he would be in violation of Part 61 FAR's.  He simply would not be able to "just get an endorsement on his commercial".  Were talking about separate pilots license's here. 

[DNall]

Ok, so the key part about what I said is student.  I understand that everyone is able to do flight training beyond private.  He still would be a student for fixed wing flying.  He would still need to have a student pilots license because he COULD not hold a private, commercial, or otherwise from right off the bat for ASEL otherwise he would be in violation of Part 61 FAR's.  He simply would not be able to "just get an endorsement on his commercial".  Were talking about separate pilots license's here. 

Respectfully, you're 100% wrong about every part of that statement. And that's nothing against you. The link I posted above was created expressly because most CFIs/flight schools do not understand how this works. If you'll take a couple minutes to give it a read, I think you'll find it spells out all the answers for you, with FAR refs. This isn't theory, the author of that article did it, as do dozens & dozens of military aviators every year.

[rightstuffpilot]

It all depends on how the FAR's are interpreted.  He does recieve an endorsement(per AC on endorsements), but he really isn't operating under his commercial certificate.  So without a private or a commercial, he is a student pilot, even though the certificate does not have to be reissued.

[Climbnsink]

The FAA is clear on this a rated pilot adding other ratings is not a student pilot.  They have some limitations after the solo endorsement in a new category(no passengers, whatever the CFI wants to specifically add) but they are not student pilots.
I'm pretty new to CAP but if it was up to me I would let this pilot train in CAP aircraft.  I think the positives far outweigh the negatives.

[DNall]

The FAA is clear on this a rated pilot adding other ratings is not a student pilot.  They have some limitations after the solo endorsement in a new category(no passengers, whatever the CFI wants to specifically add) but they are not student pilots.

That's correct. He is operating on his commercial. Upon completion of the solo time, he takes a check ride & gains the endorsement on his CFI. He can then immediately begin giving fixed-wing instruction with only 70hrs in fixed-wing (50 solo). Which is exactly what the guy in the article did.

That said, almost all the people being "instructed" in that scenario are other military aviators also doing this fixed-wing upgrade, and doing so in base aero-club planes on the side of work.

At Rucker, there's actually several courses, not one long one, and there's wait time between that ranges from a few days to a month. It's popular to use that time to knock out this upgrade process, which also helps to keep the flying skills & mental aspects keyed up before you move to AQC. 

In my guard unit, we also have a couple fixed-wing CFIs that are willing to work for beer & gas money. I'll probably do the same thing when I get back.

[rightstuffpilot]

CFI is specific to category.  IE: When you get your flight instructor certificate you recieve flight instructor airplane.  This means that if you are a commercial SEL pilot, if you get your commercial SES, you can still instruct.  The same does not follow through for rotorcraft because it is not the same category.