A Better Way - Uniforms

Started by Pylon, February 19, 2005, 09:40:39 PM

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Pylon

I got to thinking about the difficulties that people have with getting uniforms and insignia for CAP.  As it stands now, members have to pay for all their own uniforms, accessories, and accouterments.  We have to seek them out from our own sources, whether it be CAPMart, The Hock, or other, more generic uniform suppliers.  Granted, cadets usually get a blues uniform when they join (through the FCU program) and this is the only required uniform.  However, we lie to ourselves if we think a cadet can along and fully-benefit from all CAP has to offer with no BDUs or utility uniforms.

The fact of the matter is, it's very expensive to buy and maintain our uniforms - quite possibly one of the most expensive aspects of being a CAP member.

Is there a better way?  Are there any ideas out there on how uniforms and uniform supply could (realistically) be handled better for CAP members?   Understandably, corporate CAP cannot afford to buy all new members BDUs and Blues, so with this in mind - is there a better way to do it?
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Schmidty06

We could start by appologizing for the whole nametags.com deal and sell out licsences to companies that can make CAP insignia.  That way, CAPMart is taken out of the picture (which it seems to be, anyway) and there are cheaper (but hopefully quality) alternatives out there. 

Pylon

Perhaps my question was misunderstood.  I'm not talking about making uniforms cheaper, but still requring our members to buy it all - the clothing for several uniforms, the insignia and patches, and pay for the maintenance too.

Making alternatives may cut a few bucks off here and there, but it's not changing the fact that a new cadet will need to spend anywheres from $80 to $125 dollars to get their BDUs, blues shoes, and other items squared away.  And that only leaves them with one set for each.  Senior Members uniforms are even more costly, and they don't get a shot at a free uniform.

What I was looking for were ideas on better ways of getting our members uniformed.  Perhaps some sort of Air Force grant to CAP to acquire uniforms for new members, or AF donations of new uniforms to CAP HQ who then distributes, or some other sort of system by which members wouldn't be required to purchase everything at their own expense.  Any ideas? :P
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

SarDragon

Ahhhhh----- a chance to utter my absolute favorite acronym:

TANSTAAFL

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Who's gonna pay? The AF already funds FCU, so who pays - the taxpayers! It's simple economics - somebody has to pay the bill.

I own a house and pay property taxes. Almost half of that goes to schools that I don't have kids in. Do I like it? No. Is it fair? Some folks seem to think so, and I'm still deciding. The most common reason is that education contributes to the common good.

So, find some funding, and the problem is solved!
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

whatevah

how do JROTC cadets get their uniforms?
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

Yoda

I'm big on the whole sponsership idea, but unfortunately I don't have as much time as I would like to go hunting sponsers down.  I think that it would be worthwhile to go after businesses for a little cash.  We can describe what our program provides and perhaps get them to donate some money to help fund us for such necessary things as uniforms.

I have yet to put this plan into action, so I don't know whether it would be effective, but I think it'd be worth a shot.

kemdock1789

the airforce pays for Afjrotc cadets to my knolege

im in it

arajca

Quote from: Yoda on February 20, 2005, 09:06:10 PM
I'm big on the whole sponsership idea, but unfortunately I don't have as much time as I would like to go hunting sponsers down.  I think that it would be worthwhile to go after businesses for a little cash.  We can describe what our program provides and perhaps get them to donate some money to help fund us for such necessary things as uniforms.

I have yet to put this plan into action, so I don't know whether it would be effective, but I think it'd be worth a shot.

National came up with a number, IIRC, it was $300 to sponsor one cadet for one year. This would cover all uniforms, books, membership, etc. It would also cover most of the cost of encampment. After the first year, the cost difference goes to the squadron to operate and pay for such things as unit activites, radios, equipment, outside training (First Aid/CPR), etc.

I do plan to pursue this idea after I get my new unit started. I'll pitch the cost at $350 - 375 due to economic reasons (I am in a resort community, and the cost of living is higher). Hopefully, I can get several businesses to sponsor one cadet apiece. That will help with fundraising and membership. The worst they can do is say no.

The Admiral

most JROTC stuff is AF issue....
Cross into the Blue!

abysmal

Quote from: arajca on April 17, 2005, 10:29:33 PM
I do plan to pursue this idea after I get my new unit started. I'll pitch the cost at $350 - 375 due to economic reasons (I am in a resort community, and the cost of living is higher). Hopefully, I can get several businesses to sponsor one cadet apiece. That will help with fundraising and membership. The worst they can do is say no.

When you get to the point of making the sales pitch, PLEASE let us know just how it goes.
Something like this could be tremendously usefull for us as well.
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

jimz

Last I heard, CAP had access to the DRMO.  I think that is how my previous squadron's Supply Officer kept the supply room full of uniforms for issue.
Jim Ziegler, 2Lt, CAP
Alta Tulare Composite Squadron PCR-CA-394

SarDragon

DRMO uniforms are free, and you get what you pay for. Quality is not a strong point. My success rate on usability has been about 30%. Sizing is another issue.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

afgeo4

Try getting your group's/wing's numbers on paper.  Put down how many cadets don't have full uniforms.  Put down that even the one uniform that IS provided, is without shoes.  Put down that the cost of outfitting a cadet AND sending him/her to encampment is only (yes, only) $300.  Then make copies of that paper.  Show one to the nearest USAF installation commander while you introduce yourself.  Heck, show it to your CAP-USAF liaison too.  He knows the deal, but I bet he never thought about the actual hard numbers.  Then, perhaps mail a copy to each of your senators? 

Probably won't get much done, but it'll have the right people scratching their heads.

Why ONLY $300?   Well, have you ever thought of how much money that is to the US Government?   It's peanuts!  They already get all this work from us for almost free.  How much money do they spend on other agencies' uniforms?  Not counting the military?  I mean heck, even the TSA don't pay for their uniforms.

Yes, the taxpayers put up the bill, but isn't it the taxpayers who save the money by using us for SAR/DR/CD/AE, etc?
GEORGE LURYE

groundpounder

When you outprocess from the Air Force, you turn in all of your flight suits, flight jackets etc., most of which are nearly new. I assume that they sell them wholesale to the various Army/Navy stores for resale.

How about since we are the "official" aux of the AF, they give us first shot at them or at least at the wholesale rate??


abysmal

If you are BLESSED to be near a military base, let alone an Airforce Base, your life is MUCH easier.
But when you live several hundred miles from the nearest military installation, getting anything is a huge trial!
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

groundpounder

Quote from: abysmal on December 15, 2005, 03:15:35 PM
If you are BLESSED to be near a military base, let alone an Airforce Base, your life is MUCH easier.
But when you live several hundred miles from the nearest military installation, getting anything is a huge trial!

I would think that it would be easy for the AF to forward the used uniform items to the CAPMART, or whomever else will be running this in the future and they could offer the items at a greatly reduced rate. That way anyone could get a shot at them.

Xeno

Quote from: Pylon on February 20, 2005, 02:55:51 AM
What I was looking for were ideas on better ways of getting our members uniformed.  Perhaps some sort of Air Force grant to CAP to acquire uniforms for new members, or AF donations of new uniforms to CAP HQ who then distributes, or some other sort of system by which members wouldn't be required to purchase everything at their own expense.  Any ideas? :P

Well, Walmart has been known to offer us grants in the past (they paid for a good chunk of the ARWG Cadet Encampment this year and the year before that.) I'm not sure if they would do something like that on such a large scale though. Other than places like Walmart and a few charitable organizations, the air force is pretty much the only other option.

Personally, I think we should just go ahead and use some of that untouched scholarship money everyone always complains about at the end of the fiscal year to supply ourselves. The way I understand it, each wing is alotted so much money for scholarships every year, most of which, as I said, isn't touched. I'm not sure what happens to it at the end of the FY but If the money isn't used, then the Wings should have to route it all back to NHQ where it could be deposited in a supply fund.

Or, CAP could recruit that one crazy guy who wears all the question marks on his clothes to help us get free money (no, not the riddler).
C/1st Lt. Josh Sims
C/CC SWR-AR-095

121.5 -- If you crash, we will dash...

shorning

Quote from: groundpounder on December 15, 2005, 02:06:25 PM
When you outprocess from the Air Force, you turn in all of your flight suits, flight jackets etc., most of which are nearly new. I assume that they sell them wholesale to the various Army/Navy stores for resale.

Says who?  I've outprocessed from two different flying assignments, likely will never fly again, and I still have all my flight gear.  A lot of it is still fairly new.  Furthermore, I've never know any fliers to turn in their gear in the last few years.  That used to be the procedure, but hasn't been for about a decade now.

Gear that is turn in goes to DRMO.  If CAP wants it, they can screen it at DRMO.  That's part of what the State Directors should be doing.  Why doesn't the AF send it straight to CAP?  That's not how the logistics process works in DoD.

afgeo4

You are correct, sir.  The AF no longer requires you to give back your uniforms.  However...  unlike the active duty, the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard airmen receive a full allotment for uniforms and they very rarely use them (traditional reservists serve about 40 days a year not counting training). 

Most used uniforms are turned in when new issue is received.  They are then proceeded to be either DRMO or destroyed, based on their condition.  I know that our local ANG base keeps huge cardboard bins for their turned in uniforms and given prior approval from their superintendent, we can go through those bins and requisition whatever we need for CAP use.  We do have a good relationship with the entire base though, including the Wing King.  However, no reason why you shouldn't too if you are near one.
GEORGE LURYE