National Conference Uniform Guidance (My Small Rant)

[Former_C/LTC]

Best and worst seminar at the National Conference...!!  It was extremely apparent that a large majority of senior officers either can't read or understand the CAPM 39-1.  The seminar was an instructive slide presentation with plenty of 8 x 10 photographs with circles and arrows...(obscure reference to Alice's Restaurant...LOL) I do sympathize with them a bit, but when I tried to get some guidance on black combat boots and there unavailability in most Air Force clothing sales, we were essentially spoke down to like children with statements from the CAP uniform committee "The Air Force is going back to black boots" and "they will never get rid of the black boots".  When I mentioned that I check the Air Force Uniform link on the AF portal regularly, and most of my reserve unit was already in ABU's and when was the timeline for our implementation I thought there was going to be a minor riot...!!  LOL, but let's look at the facts: 

Air Force Times, September 2008, page 8, Pressing Uniform Issues First, and I quote "A stain resistant material for the (suede green) boots is in the works...There was also a proposal to allow airmen in industrial work environments...flight line maintainers, for example...to wear black boots....but (Ruth) Ewalt said no decision has been made".  Ruth Ewalt is the Chief of Air Force Uniform Programs and Policy, and I trust her quoted statements rather than the CAP uniform committee.

Why don't we do what the Air Force does, have a website where members can make constructive suggestions for uniforms, not a complaint website but serious comments on how to improve the mess we've allowed ourselves to get into with ever increasing clothing costs and silly combinations that benefit no one.

  Richard J Levitt, Lt Col, CAP
  NER/CT011 

  Richard J Levitt, MSgt, USAFR
  439th ASTS

[RiverAux]

when was the timeline for our implementation I thought there was going to be a minor riot

A reliable source has told me that it seems unlikely that CAP will even try to request this anytime soon due to a loss of credibility with the AF. 

As to your suggestion, I agree totally.  It seems the services have learned that hearing from the masses is worthwhile on stuff like this, but we're still following the "tell it to the chain of command" (i.e, see it drop in the black hole if your immediate superior disagrees with it, or just doesn't like you) model for reviewing regulations. 

[JayT]

when was the timeline for our implementation I thought there was going to be a minor riot

A reliable source has told me that it seems unlikely that CAP will even try to request this anytime soon due to a loss of credibility with the AF. 

As to your suggestion, I agree totally.  It seems the services have learned that hearing from the masses is worthwhile on stuff like this, but we're still following the "tell it to the chain of command" (i.e, see it drop in the black hole if your immediate superior disagrees with it, or just doesn't like you) model for reviewing regulations. 

What kind of 'reliable source?'

[RiverAux]

If I was willing to describe the person more, I would have. 

[Major Carrales]

If I was willing to describe the person more, I would have. 

Stop spreading rumors...then!!!

[RiverAux]

Take it or leave it, as you like.  Lets just say that it is good enough intel to make me discouraged, and I had been pretty optimistic that this would happen soon. 

[Major Carrales]

Take it or leave it, as you like.  Lets just say that it is good enough intel to make me discouraged, and I had been pretty optimistic that this would happen soon. 

I was sort of ribbing you.   In anycase, I do not really take the "pre-emptive" positions on things as I once did.  Burned too many times.

[Eclipse]

I guess it needs to be said, again.

BDU's are plentiful and easy to get, they also last effectively forever (the way most CAP members use them) if you take even the most basic care of them.

We have no need for ABU's on any level, nor do we need to be making uniform changes unless they will make things less complicated.

Black boots are easy to get and aren't going anywhere.  Last I checked my local MCSS, they had plenty, so did about 10,000 local and online retailers.  The fact that AAFES is not carrying them is a non issue for CAP people.

As to the dead-horse comment about our relationship with the USAF, I'm not buying it.  My "reliable sources" say different.

[stratoflyer]

^Agreed.

Has anyone read the posts made by Lt Col White on this thread:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3540.0

Read pg 12.

[mmouw]

Just a point of fact, MCSS is AAFES. I was at Ellsworth this weekend at MCSS and they have no black boots nor are they getting any more. The same story at Offutt. I have a cadet that wears a size twleve. The least expensive he can find are pushing $100.00. Does anyone have another reasonably priced store?

[capmaj]

MMOUW

Try here for $49.95
http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/04/product-id/419409.html

[Eclipse]

Just a point of fact, MCSS is AAFES.

OK, my bad, when I say AAFES, I mean AAFES, and when I say MCSS, I mean any base exchange that sells military clothing.  There are lots of those and CAP people forget that.

I was at Ellsworth this weekend at MCSS and they have no black boots nor are they getting any more. The same story at Offutt. I have a cadet that wears a size twelve. The least expensive he can find are pushing $100.00. Does anyone have another reasonably priced store?

What style boots?  For $100-120 you're looking at some nice Corcoran jump boots or similar.

There's lots of places to get perfectly acceptable and comfortable military-style or tactical boots.

Sears, for example, carries the Bates tactical line. and their boots are great, affordable, and easier on your feet than new jump boots.  If its not in the store, you can order online for sotre delivery and try them on right there.

Your local police fire uniform shop should have boots as well.

[davedove]

As far as boots go, though, I would say that is one item where you should be willing to spend a little more to get a good fit.  If you're just wearing them to squadron meetings, it may not be as critical, but if you're wearing them to march, in the field, etc., get a good fit.  Your feet will thank you.

[davidsinn]

As far as boots go, though, I would say that is one item where you should be willing to spend a little more to get a good fit.  If you're just wearing them to squadron meetings, it may not be as critical, but if you're wearing them to march, in the field, etc., get a good fit.  Your feet will thank you.

+1

I spent $150 for a pair of Danner boots and I wear them everyday by choice and I love them. I had Jungles for uniform only wear but they just sucked.

[Eclipse]

As far as boots go, though, I would say that is one item where you should be willing to spend a little more to get a good fit.  If you're just wearing them to squadron meetings, it may not be as critical, but if you're wearing them to march, in the field, etc., get a good fit.  Your feet will thank you.

+1

I spent $150 for a pair of Danner boots and I wear them everyday by choice and I love them. I had Jungles for uniform only wear but they just sucked.

+1
I'll give another point to that, though the gist here is that whether its the $30 6-month throwaways, or $120 extended use, boots are not hard to find for CAP people.

The fact that USAF stores may be drying them up may be frustrating for members who have had easy(ier) access because of their other-service affiliation, but its not really a factor in the grand scheme.

[Smokey]

Black boots will not go away.  While the military may not have them, there are hundreds of police uniform stores that carry them and will continue to carry them. Law enforcement and the fire services are not going away from black boots. Trust me...they will be around for a very long time.

I agree that MCSS may not have them, but they are not a sole sousrce supplier.

As for BDUs........Yesterday at the Edwards AFB MCSS there was only a very small selectin of BDUs.  So that supply seems to be drying up...in fact at a military & police supply store I have not seen any BDUs.

[IceNine]

I have a cadet that wears a size twleve. The least expensive he can find are pushing $100.00. Does anyone have another reasonably priced store?

Altama good boots and they used to be like 30 or 40 bucks.  I wore a pair for my first 7+ years in CAP until they finally ripped from my toes rubbing the sides.  Given after the first year I was in them usually at least 3 days a week, maybe more.  Doing ES, drill, just walking whatever.

the only thing I ever did to them was replace the insoles

[IceNine]

I have to retract my previous.

Apparently the good olde days are gone.  Cheapest pair I could find by quick search were $93.

[Eclipse]

I have a cadet that wears a size twleve. The least expensive he can find are pushing $100.00. Does anyone have another reasonably priced store?

First Google search - ~$33 shipped.

Plenty of Altama's there well under a hundred.

Though for the first pair I'd recommend the Sears route so they can be tried on with no-hassle return.

[jayleswo]

The fact that BDU's are going away is actually an *opportunity* for us - at least in the short term. I have a member who is in a nearby Army Guard aviation unit and asked him to see if he could scrounge us some BDU's for our cadets from people in his unit turning them in. He arrives to every meeting with boxes of them. Very similar to the kind of windfall we had when we transitioned from the old green fatigues to BDU's in the first place back in the 1980's.

-- John