Task Guide Format

[RiverAux]

As everything is available for download, I'm not sure its worth the money to make DVDs, especially if you consider that the requirements might change at any moment, which could quickly make the DVD obsolete. 

That being said, I thnk they do need to continue to print and sell the task guides and reference texts.  Those are just too large to reasonably expect most members to print themselves. 

[DNall]

^ I believe that's what he's saying. We do need a better, more standardized delivery method for the learning aspect, be it video or whatever. And of course the taks guides are still there with an evaluator on the other end.

My issue is really two-fold. 1) the quality of the task guide & many of the tasks themselves. That's w/o accounting at all for higher industry standards which we also need to be pushing up to. And, 2) the lack of a structured overall program. I would prefer to see you attached to a rating mentor. That person may or may not be an evaluator on individual tasks, but they are in overall charge of your training in the specialty and ultimately must recommend you to get it, at the cost of their own ratings/etc if they keep sending unqualified people up. That's the real key we're missing now. No one is tracking your progress or guiding you thru the process, at least it's not a specified element of the current program - I know it does happen case-by-case, and those are usually the competent people when they get their rating instead of figuring it out on the fly.

[RiverAux]

Some of the tasks definetely need another look  -- the first aid ones are HORRIBLE.  But I think overall that at least the GT guide is pretty good.  The Mission Base Staff guide .... I'm not a big fan of it.  Frankly, I haven't spent much time in the Aircrew TG as I moved away from ES training slots before it really came out.

As to a mentor, that is partly the job of the squadron ES officer or one of his assistants.  They should be guiding everyone's ES training and walking them through the steps.  Heck, they can even have an assistant focused primarily on SAR training.  If we can't get those positions functioning, no mentoring system is going to go very far. 

[stratoflyer]

Agreed. ES personnel at the squadron should perform the function of mentors. At mine, that is how it works. The aircrew guys handle aircrew hopefuls, and the ground folks handle the ground hopefuls.

Interesting point about the DVD's being obsolete, but seeing how the tasks guides are a few years old at least, that shouldn't be much of a problem. Besides, the videos could be streamed at the website until a new DVD comes out.

I do think that the whole ES system could use a little more structure and a bit of an overhaul, but honestly, from what I hear, it seems to be working quite well. I find myself looking for answers but I tend to find them on the web be it from forums like this one, emails from other members, CAP Knowledgebase, or another wing's website. The information is out there: just scattered about.

But remember, we are volunteers and so are much of the folks that put this stuff together. I think we're doing pretty good.

Speaking of the first aid stuff in the task guides, shouldn't ground team people be trained a little more to offer first aid? I don't know exactly how it works already. I don't want to start a tangent here either. Just wondering that's all.

[Auxpilot]

As everything is available for download, I'm not sure its worth the money to make DVDs, especially if you consider that the requirements might change at any moment, which could quickly make the DVD obsolete. 

That being said, I think they do need to continue to print and sell the task guides and reference texts.  Those are just too large to reasonably expect most members to print themselves. 

The presentations that are available for download are not sufficient for at home training. The DVD would serve to explain what is on the slide.

For example - the two day mission aircrew school uses the powerpoint slide but with a live instructor. A new member coming in right after the class is given may have to wait months for the next class. With the classroom material on DVD he can watch it right away and then spend a couple hours with a trainer who can start him on his way within a very short period of time.

The slides are only good if you already have an idea what is going on. Most of them would be lost on a new member without some explanation.

My guess is that there is a very wide variation in how well the training materials are presented from unit to unit. Having materials on DVD would standardize the basic training platform from which the local members can then build upon.

Following the Air Force model, new recruits are trained at tech schools then sent to their base for OJT. All primary training is done in a standardized format under a training command, not left to each individual base to do it their way.

Some folks are natual teachers, others are not. Not all units are blessed with a good teacher.

Most of the basic information does not change (ie: scanning techniques etc.). With today's technology CAP could provide web based access to multimedia presentations that could be edited anytime there is a significant change in the materials. The cost of not providing quality training is far greater than the cost to put together a DVD.

[RiverAux]

Well, the slides aren't meant for self study.  I am a big believer in CAP using online education tools to train and test knowledge for all of the simple fact-based tasks in our ES (or other programs) so that individual members can take care of themselves.  For stuff like that an online course with quizes and other interactive tools would be better than a DVD since you can rig it to automatically add the tasks taht are passed into their ES records. 

[Auxpilot]

Well, the slides aren't meant for self study.  I am a big believer in CAP using online education tools to train and test knowledge for all of the simple fact-based tasks in our ES (or other programs) so that individual members can take care of themselves.  For stuff like that an online course with quizes and other interactive tools would be better than a DVD since you can rig it to automatically add the tasks that are passed into their ES records. 

That would work for me. I'm not stuck on the DVD format, it could be an online presentation like the Air Safety Foundation or FEMA are using.

We just need to accomplish two things; Standardize training and make it readily available for our members, especially the new ones who keep leaving because we can't train them fast enough.

How do we make this happen?? Should everyone start running this request up the chain?

I wish that NHQ had a suggestion box similar to the safety suggestion application that they recently started so good ideas could surface quickly.

[Eclipse]

We just need to accomplish two things; Standardize training and make it readily available for our members, especially the new ones who keep leaving because we can't train them fast enough.

This exists today, the issue is "localization" (or worse) of what for the most part are perfectly fine materials and presentations.

Taken step-by-step, there is nothing in the basic UDF,GTM, or Mission Scanner taskbooks and related materials that could not be addressed and understood cold.  Couple what is CAP-specific with the vast, unlimited resources of the rest of the internet, and most members should be able to get through the basics of ICS, field craft (fundamentals), and what is needed to start operating as an aircrew member.

Anything more remedial than what is there could not be addressed by an online or DVD curriculum anyway, and skills above the basic need hands-on reenforcement.

If your local situation is not active enough to provide members regular training activities beyond the "once-a-year" hit, then they are also not likely active enough to provide practical need for the skills anyway.

(I'll grant that the last issue is somewhat circular and self-defeating, but its also the unfortunate reality to a lot of units.)

This is not rocket science, folks, and for the most part we are training adults and older cadets who come into the mix with an inclination towards the curriculum and duties.  We can't invest effort into creating training materials for a small percentage of our members who have never seen an airplane, compass, or canteen, and can't be bothered to seek out the fundamentals on their own so that they come to the table prepared.

(I would like to see some sort of logical page numbering to the task guides, though).

[RiverAux]

If your local situation is not active enough to provide members regular training activities beyond the "once-a-year" hit, then they are also not likely active enough to provide practical need for the skills anyway.

Not really.  It is a matter of having enough people to justify doing a major training course.  Most squadrons are not going to have enough new members needing training in a specific specialty at any given time to justify spending two days running through one of the aircrew courses, for example.  However, if the new member has the opportunity to get all the initial classroom-type stuff out of the way on their own, most units can then pick it up at the point where you have to start learning and demonstrating specific skills. 

[Auxpilot]

I don't believe that the unit activity is the issue. I have given check rides to folks from some of the most active units and found a wide variation in the skill level of the candidates.

The issue is standardization. No it is not rocket science but it does take some real effort, and time on the part of both the trainee and the trainer. Time that many members cannot afford to devote while balancing everything else in their life.

Some units are more focused on quantity rather than quality and a sign off on an SQTR is very subjective.

Yes you can give a Scanner the task guide and they can learn the subject "cold", but that does not make them good at it. I advocate the use of todays multimedia technology to put real world demonstrations and standardized training materials in the hands of people who have never been formally trained to teach as a tool to make our people the best that they can be.

What would be wrong with a new Scanner watching video taken from an airplane to show them 20 different targets in various conditions as opposed to a couple of rides in a plane over whatever target the individual unit may come up with. I'll bet that 95% of our Scanners have never witnessed a real aircraft or reasonable facsimile from an airplane. Most get trained using an ELT and a tarp in the backyard of one of our members. One video that is well produced could be used to train thousands of scanners.

Your unit may have one or two good teachers that can take the limited materials available and turn out highly qualified ES members. Most units do not have really good teachers and that is where NHQ can be of great assistance.

[Eclipse]

If your local situation is not active enough to provide members regular training activities beyond the "once-a-year" hit, then they are also not likely active enough to provide practical need for the skills anyway.

Not really.  It is a matter of having enough people to justify doing a major training course.  Most squadrons are not going to have enough new members needing training in a specific specialty at any given time to justify spending two days running through one of the aircrew courses, for example.  However, if the new member has the opportunity to get all the initial classroom-type stuff out of the way on their own, most units can then pick it up at the point where you have to start learning and demonstrating specific skills. 

Another fallacy that people use an an excuse.  Everyone needs proficiency training and updates of various tasking.

A new member is the perfect time to pair them up with a couple of mentors and get running.

[RiverAux]

Not wanting to spend two days running a course for only 1 or 2 people is not an excuse.  I'm dedicated, but nowhere near that dedicated. 

Yes, you can use refresher training for everyone as the initial training for new members.  However, in my experience and depending on how much training time you have in each meeting, it can take a very long time for a new member to get their training that way.  If that is their only choice, so be it.  But, its far from ideal.   

Now, if we have online training for most of the "facts", then you can set aside part of some meetings for a trainer to sit down with 1-2 trainees to run them through the mapwork and similar tasks and before you know it, they would be ready to start doing their training sorties.

[Auxpilot]

"Another fallacy that people use an an excuse.  Everyone needs proficiency training and updates of various tasking."

Eclipse, please do not take this as a personal insult, as it is not meant to be in any way.

Your thinking is what many consider to be a major problem with CAP and some (I repeat some) of it's senior leadership. I am not painting with a broad brush as there are many more good folks in leadership than there are bad.

We are a Volunteer organization made up of members with a very wide range of personal situations. It sounds like you  have a great deal of time to devote to CAP, which is very commendable however many of us do not. We want to make every precious moment as productive as possible. I don't understand why you would not want to provide our members with every tool possible to make the organization as good as it could possibly be?

For many of us with a working spouse, a couple of kids and a tank of fish at home, weekend after weekend at the CAP hanger would result in a lot of legal fees and the loss of half of our stuff. CAP is a great cause but not that great.

Look at the membership statistics and you will see that we lose a bunch of new members every year because they feel unwanted and poorly trained. We need to move away from the "we have always done it this way" mentality and take advantage of the tools that are available and affordable today. Spacing - MIKE

[RiverAux]

We need to move away from the "we have always done it this way" mentality and take advantage of the tools that are available and affordable today.

Especially when it is pretty clear that old-style classroom training really only works in large units or when done at group/wing level, leaving the majority of our squadrons in a bind when it comes to training new members.  Small units in particular are in a catch-22 situation anyway.  They may not have anyone qualified in a particular skill, so training new people all on their own is not possible.

To be fair, I don't think Eclipse was saying the old way was the best way. 

[heliodoc]

CAP with all it's resources at Maxwell, should have known this a long time ago, on how much time this would involve and the requirements of beiong a SET.  If we go with the current convention and just do the online training, that is all we are going to get.

CAP, if it is to taken more seriously about its training, should have had a plan in place to preclude "pencil whipping" and made the Wing ES Officer go thru all the hoops and then mete it out thru the Group and Sqdn levels.  But there would great dsconnect in how that would work, and all the mumbo jumbo that go on through those levels.  

My opinion, if anyone cares, is, we got what we got and the memebership may have to accept the current status of SET and our own time OR EVERY Wing puts on a NESA equivalent EVERY YEAR and EVERY instructor is up to speed.  It does not have to be Purdue or Duke level education or presentation, but a presentation.  If you have first year instructors, let them develop, and make some mistakes while instructing, because we know there are more than enough CAP experts on everything SAR to correct everyone out there.  Maybe all the greats on this forum we volunteer their time, as I know they already have to do  large sized operations as such.

If one does at the Squadron level, there is not one god of ES that knows everything SAR, nor one pilot that is god of CAP Flight Ops that knows EVERYTHING!!!  So you have to allow some variations in KSA's to be able to put a training on otherwise who you going to finally trust in your units?  Surely NHQ hasn't got all the answers,  just websites for training and that maybe all we get unless we go NESA GSAR / MAS route in every state to preclude the " worrisome pencil whipping" that this forum seems so worried about

But as the above (Auxpilot) has written, alot of us have a life out of CAP and all the retired types who either got more time could really get on the bandwagon and assist with this

I surely know the training in CAP is pretty weak even on my second time around and thought thing would improve in 25 yrs.  The CAPM 50-15 of years ago sure was more indepth and better put together than the current 60-3.  We sure need a training program but I thought Maxwell gurus would have had this nailed down by now.......

[RiverAux]

60-3 isn't our training manual like the old 52 was.  In terms of sheer volume, the CAP training program today is way beyond anything imagined in the old days.  Heck, we're talking about a couple of 200+ page reference texts and a couple of task guides of a hundred pages or more as well, in addition to dozens of powerpoint presentations that can be used to illustrate a lot of what we do.  There is just no comparison between the old program and today.   The problems lay primarily in the implementation of this program.   

[stratoflyer]

Ok. Let's get a handle on this one fact:

CAP didn't always have the internet, so what did they do then?

Then along came the genie called the internet. And CAP eventually got on the bandwagon and now look at all the resources available. In my opinion in in those of others on this thread, a DVD series on ES topics would definitely be a next step in the evolution of keeping highly trained civilian volunteers.

What would be wrong with a new Scanner watching video taken from an airplane to show them 20 different targets in various conditions as opposed to a couple of rides in a plane over whatever target the individual unit may come up with. I'll bet that 95% of our Scanners have never witnessed a real aircraft or reasonable facsimile from an airplane. Most get trained using an ELT and a tarp in the backyard of one of our members. One video that is well produced could be used to train thousands of scanners.

I agree 110% on that. I am currently training as a scanner, and hopefully will go on some training missions soon, but those would be limited to what can be seen. A DVD can supplement that training experience.

The slides are only good if you already have an idea what is going on. Most of them would be lost on a new member without some explanation.

Agreed. It's happened to me.

How do we make this happen?? Should everyone start running this request up the chain?

How do we start this ball rolling? I suggested someone get a camcorder, and tape their unit's ES specialist teaching one or two topics, and submit it up the CHain of Command. It doesn't necessarily need to come from NHQ. Wings do their own training stuff all the time. The task guides are the standard, and the regs need to be followed. That said, members create their own stuff for a lot of different things all the time. I've seen cadet training videos were proper uniform wear is shown. Why can't officers put a quick little demonstration of how to use an DF.

My opinion, if anyone cares...

Hey, that's why we are here, to share opinions and a lot of us do care.

[davedove]

How do we start this ball rolling? I suggested someone get a camcorder, and tape their unit's ES specialist teaching one or two topics, and submit it up the CHain of Command. It doesn't necessarily need to come from NHQ. Wings do their own training stuff all the time. The task guides are the standard, and the regs need to be followed. That said, members create their own stuff for a lot of different things all the time. I've seen cadet training videos were proper uniform wear is shown. Why can't officers put a quick little demonstration of how to use an DF.

And if it happens, this is the way it will come about.  One wing develops a nice way to do something, some other wings say "this is great", National sees it, and suddenly it becomes a nationwide practice.

That's how we got a lot of our ES practices we currently use.

[RiverAux]

That is how we got the task guides in the first place.  If I recall correctly they started as a Maryland Wing project in the 1990s.  I don't know if they were simply the test wing for what had been developed by national or if they came up with them on the own.  At least for GT, what we have today is very siimilar to what they were using then.

[stratoflyer]

Well, then, who has a camcorder and an ES expert at their unit?

All it would take is one short video on a couple of tasks. This would be a proof of concept where we could go ahead and suggest things. Hopefully, different wings would add different things. Example would be snow ops, or ops in the Everglades (our case here).