Cords on Class As/Bs

[AvroArrow]

I was wondering on how to wear cords for both our Blues and Class-As.

I should know by now, but I've seen them been worn two different ways. One way is hanging on the end closest to your elbow under the epaulette, and the other way is hanging it around this thread near the button at the end of the epaulette nearest to your neck.

So, I got to know: which one is more correct?

[TankerT]

Uh oh...

Word of advice... DUCK!

[Duke Dillio]

I'll be nice and answer.

It depends on the cord.  Most of the cords that I have seen have a little loop at the top which goes where the button on your epaulet is.  I have seen some of the honor guard/color guard people wearing them right at the seam which looks okay I guess, but my preference is for the button loop thingy.

Now you can duck.  I hear....   INCOMING!!!!!

[MIKE]

So, I got to know: which one is more correct?

What does CAPM 39-1 say?  That is where you will find how shoulder cords are worn on service dress and other service uniform combinations.

It depends on the cord.  Most of the cords that I have seen have a little loop at the top which goes where the button on your epaulet is.  I have seen some of the honor guard/color guard people wearing them right at the seam which looks okay I guess, but my preference is for the button loop thingy.

Hint: RTFM.

[AvroArrow]

Right, well I'm a total nooby. Only been in the CAP program for so long 

I am looking in the CAPM 39-1, and I can't find anything that regulates how/where to wear the shoulder cords.

yeah 

[Eclipse]

The search function is your friend.

I see only one option for wear, repeated in several places, including at least two color photos, several tables, and a line diagram.

[AvroArrow]

The search function is your friend.

I see only one option for wear, repeated in several places, including at least two color photos, several tables, and a line diagram.

I did use the search function... it found nothing

[MIKE]

CAPM 39-1 5-5. and Figure 5-2.  That's Chapter 5

^ Click Me

[Eclipse]

The search function is your friend.

I see only one option for wear, repeated in several places, including at least two color photos, several tables, and a line diagram.

I did use the search function... it found nothing

You searched for the word "cord" and found nothing?

I find 33 occurances, including a fair number of it inside "accordance".

[Maj Ballard]

Not to sound harsh, but a C/SSgt (NCO and developing leader, presumably responsible for instructing uniform standards) should be knowledgeable about how to access and effectively search the electronic version of CAPM 39-1.

If you've not been taught or shown, now's a great time to learn. It's as simple as opening the document and searching for "shoulder cords." The fact that you've searched and found nothing is concerning. Are you looking at the most recent version?

It's very important that the manual is always the FIRST place we consult about uniform matters (not our buddy, or the message board). Especially as officers and cadet leaders, our authority must be the standard and not "what we heard."

[AvroArrow]

Right. Thanks. Much appreciated, been wondering on this topic for awhile. :angel:

One question.

Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

I'm looking at my cord right now, and I see absolutely no way how to fasten it from within the shirt.

Maybe I'm just blind and a reallh big idiot, but I don't see much on the cord nor the shirt that would "secure" the cord on the seam.


Edit:

Not to sound harsh, but a C/SSgt (NCO and developing leader, presumably responsible for instructing uniform standards) should be knowledgeable about how to access and effectively search the electronic version of CAPM 39-1.

If you've not been taught or shown, now's a great time to learn. It's as simple as opening the document and searching for "shoulder cords." The fact that you've searched and found nothing is concerning. Are you looking at the most recent version?

It's very important that the manual is always the FIRST place we consult about uniform matters (not our buddy, or the message board). Especially as officers and cadet leaders, our authority must be the standard and not "what we heard."

I specifically searched "should cords," before even making this topic, and all I got was the fact that you get a shoulder cord from successfully being in the Honopr guard. Although, I probably should've looked a little closer before asking, so yeah, it's my mistake...

[Major Carrales]

The search function is your friend.

Not really, threads drift so much at times.  Plus...

A search for the word "cords" produces several listing of everything from Bungee cords, to extention cords or "records."  Plus, I don't think the placement of cords on a service dress uniform has ever been discussed here.

It seems that answering the question here would work best.

[MIKE]

Right. Thanks. Much appreciated, been wondering on this topic for awhile. :angel:

One question.

Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

I'm looking at my cord right now, and I see absolutely no way how to fasten it from within the shirt.

Maybe I'm just blind and a reallh big idiot, but I don't see much on the cord nor the shirt that would "secure" the cord on the seam.

Safety pin(s). http://wiki.cadetstuff.org/index.php?title=Cord_Installation

Edit: Added link.

[Eclipse]

The search function is your friend.

Not really, threads drift so much at time.  It seems that answering the question here would work best.

I was going to, but then it seemed like we were taking the "teach to fish" approach...

[Maj Ballard]

If there's not a safety pin attached to it already, get one and use that. Easiest way I've found.

Maj Carrales, I must respectfully disagree. It is a far greater benefit for a Cadet NCO to learn to use the resources available to him than to be spoon-fed an answer on an internet messageboard.

[AvroArrow]

Safety pin(s).

You sure that'd be ok as far as regulations go? 

[Major Carrales]

If there's not a safety pin attached to it already, get one and use that. Easiest way I've found.

Maj Carrales, I must respectfully disagree. It is a far greater benefit for a Cadet NCO to learn to use the resources available to him than to be spoon-fed an answer on an internet messageboard.

In this case, the answer cannot be found using the search engine.   Obviously the search engine was tried but to no avail. 

By the way, the search feature becomes rather useless and tedious when these formus approach millions of posts.

[Duke Dillio]

Um, read the reg again.  I believe that it says to use three safety pins if I am not mistaken, which I probably am.....  Been up all night workin so my memory tends to slip a bit.

[Maj Ballard]

Safety pin(s).

You sure that'd be ok as far as regulations go? 

Absolutely. Many cords come manufactured with safety pins built-in. Just be careful (obviously) and fasten it in such a way that the pin is not visible.

Maj Carrales, the search function works fine. (We were all referring to searching the PDF of CAPM 39-1, not the search feature of this board.) Otherwise, how did the rest of us find the answer for ourselves so quickly? As I said before, the first place an officer or cadet looks for an answer should be the applicable official documentation, not an internet forum.

[Major Carrales]

Maj Carrales, the search function works fine. (We were all referring to searching the PDF of CAPM 39-1, not the search feature of this board.) Otherwise, how did the rest of us find the answer for ourselves so quickly? As I said before, the first place an officer or cadet looks for an answer should be the applicable official documentation, not an internet forum.

I stand corrected...I simply thought you meant the formus.

[AvroArrow]

Safety pin(s).

You sure that'd be ok as far as regulations go? 

Absolutely. Many cords come manufactured with safety pins built-in. Just be careful (obviously) and fasten it in such a way that the pin is not visible.

Maj Carrales, the search function works fine. (We were all referring to searching the PDF of CAPM 39-1, not the search feature of this board.) Otherwise, how did the rest of us find the answer for ourselves so quickly? As I said before, the first place an officer or cadet looks for an answer should be the applicable official documentation, not an internet forum.

And what if your cord doesn't have built-in safety pins? Mine doesn't, and I can't find any immediate place to put a safety pin through without try to stab it right into the chord. There are some little itsy-bitsy places, but it might be difficult to put it through while also putting it through the shirt as well.

[Maj Ballard]

The Honor Guard portion of the manual refers to using three pins when securing the cord to the service coat for performances. This is honor guard specific instruction.

IMO, using three pins on a shirt is overkill.

Do what works. Very simple. Although the manual says to secure the cord, I've also seen cords worn with the short-sleeve shirt with no pins. The cord went under the epaulet, resting on the shoulder seam and stayed put very nicely. If it slips around as you wear it, you'll need to work on securing it.

[AvroArrow]

So, my best hunch is to improvise something as far as securing the cord goes.

I guess I'll go dig around for some safety pins and try to work it out.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated 

[Major Carrales]

Do what works. Very simple. Although the manual says to secure the cord, I've also seen cords worn with the short-sleeve shirt with no pins. The cord went under the epaulet, resting on the shoulder seam and stayed put very nicely. If it slips around as you wear it, you'll need to work on securing it.

This was once discussed on one of the forums.  The idea that a cord should be placed at the epaulet button fastened there, or resting at the end of the epaulet as so described.  This involved the wear of such cords in Texas Wing.

Are both acceptable wear?

[NC Hokie]

.

So, my best hunch is to improvise something as far as securing the cord goes.

I guess I'll go dig around for some safety pins and try to work it out.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated 

If the pictures provided earlier don't work you can simply use one safety pin lengthwise along the seam.  Pin the cord from inside the shirt...you might pinch the cord a bit but that will be hidden by the epaulette.

[AvroArrow]

Do what works. Very simple. Although the manual says to secure the cord, I've also seen cords worn with the short-sleeve shirt with no pins. The cord went under the epaulet, resting on the shoulder seam and stayed put very nicely. If it slips around as you wear it, you'll need to work on securing it.

This was once discussed on one of the forums.  The idea that a cord should be placed at the epaulet button fastened there, or resting at the end of the epaulet as so described.  This involved the wear of such cords in Texas Wing.

Are both acceptable wear?

That was what I originally asked at the beginning 

So, my best hunch is to improvise something as far as securing the cord goes.

I guess I'll go dig around for some safety pins and try to work it out.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated 

If the pictures provided earlier don't work you can simply use one safety pin lengthwise along the seam.  Pin the cord from inside the shirt...you might pinch the cord a bit but that will be hidden by the epaulette.

I know what you mean, but just to add... what pictures?

[mikeylikey]

Stupid Question.....but like 12 years ago, weren't the cords worn differently??  Like attached to the button on the shoulder?

Is this an AF change that CAP picked up also??

[Major Carrales]

Stupid Question.....but like 12 years ago, weren't the cords worn differently??  Like attached to the button on the shoulder?

Is this an AF change that CAP picked up also??

This was my belief, that a little loop attacked it to a button.  I must then assume there are different styles, subtle, but different enough to change the wearing of them.

[mikeylikey]

^ that is what I thought.   

[AvroArrow]

my cord has a loop that attatches to the button, but I've seen people where it on the shoulder seem. So... I'm especially confused now. 

[Major Carrales]

my cord has a loop that attatches to the button, but I've seen people where it on the shoulder seem. So... I'm especially confused now. 

What does the Regulation/Document say about the wear of such things? Since these folks want you to look it up.

[AvroArrow]

Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

CAPM 39-1 says to wear it on the seem... underneath not near the epaulette, like Mike's link suggests.  http://wiki.cadetstuff.org/index.php?title=Cord_Installation

So.. now what?

[Hawk200]

Stupid Question.....but like 12 years ago, weren't the cords worn differently??  Like attached to the button on the shoulder?

Is this an AF change that CAP picked up also??

This was my belief, that a little loop attacked it to a button.  I must then assume there are different styles, subtle, but different enough to change the wearing of them.

As far as the Infantry style cords went, that was how it was done. Currently, the Air Force doesn't wear the Infantry style cords, only the Honor Guard one that was worn pinned to the shoulder seam.

Unfortunately, when CAP wrote cords into the manual, they didn't consider that the Infantry cord has the loop that's fastened to the button, underneath the epaulet. They only wrote for the Honor Guard style.

This is another reason that they need people to be considering what we are going to actually be wearing when they write the uniform manual.

[DC]

5-5. Shoulder Cords. Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets only to denote special honor positions or may be authorized by the wing commander for special purpose activities (see Table 1-4). Not more than
one shoulder cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (Figure 5-2). Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

Emphasis mine.

39-1 is very specific, and even provides a pretty illustration (Figure 5-2, Page 90). Cords are to be worn along the shoulder seam, not attached to the button. Like it, don't like it, that is what the manual says.

I would also like to add, on a different subject, CAP does not have Class B or Class A uniforms. We have a Service uniform and a Service Dress uniform.

[AvroArrow]

I would also like to add, on a different subject, CAP does not have Class B or Class A uniforms. We have a Service uniform and a Service Dress uniform.

Maybe. But the more common nicknames would be "Class-B" (or "Blues") and "Class-A."

So might as well use nicknames since not everyone will be/would be as technical.


Edit: Oh, and the 39-1 says the cord to be fastened from underneath, but I can't think of how to do it. Everyone here has said safety pins that will hold it at the top of the cord, not the bottom.

[mikeylikey]

The AF types on here don't want to admit it, but the use of "class A, class B" can also be heard in the AF, even though the AF instructions make no mention of it.

If you want to get technical about it, Commanders are allowed to designate uniform types as whatever they want.  If the Commander of a Logistics unit in the AF wanted to, he or she could call the Service Dress uniform "The kick-but uniform" when dictating what uniforms are to be worn in his Command.  So his weekly memo could be "Next week all members will wear the Kick But Uniform, as prescribed in my uniform supplement".

People just like to call out others for using the wrong terminology.  If your unit and it's members know what Class A and Class B means, no reason not to use it.     

[NC Hokie]

Edit: Oh, and the 39-1 says the cord to be fastened from underneath, but I can't think of how to do it. Everyone here has said safety pins that will hold it at the top of the cord, not the bottom.

Not if you attach the safety pin from the INSIDE of the shirt.

[Nathan]

Not going to lie... the very few times I wear cords, I don't even bother pinning it to the shirt. It tends to stay right where I put it, so long as I refrain from doing cartwheels or breakdancing.

[DC]

I would also like to add, on a different subject, CAP does not have Class B or Class A uniforms. We have a Service uniform and a Service Dress uniform.

Maybe. But the more common nicknames would be "Class-B" (or "Blues") and "Class-A."

So might as well use nicknames since not everyone will be/would be as technical.


Edit: Oh, and the 39-1 says the cord to be fastened from underneath, but I can't think of how to do it. Everyone here has said safety pins that will hold it at the top of the cord, not the bottom.

You fasten the cord to the shirt from underneath the portion of cord that crosses the shoulder, which will run under the epaulet.

Many cords will go from a full braid to a single strand for a few inches at the top, if your cord does this then there is no need for a safety pin, it will stay in place fine by itself. But, if you are going to fasten it the illustration on the wiki shows you exactly how to do it.