Cadets wearing Golf Shirt

[CASH172]

I've been looking at 39-1, and I can't find anything that states cadets can or cannot wear the CAP Distinctive Golf Shirt.  There's no mention of who may actually wear the uniform.  So my question is, can cadets wear it?

[Lamh Dearg]

....and why would any cadet want to wear the golf shirt? 

[Pylon]

Short answer: No.  Cadets may not.

The polo shirts are CAP distinctive uniforms and fall under Chapter 4 of the CAPM 39-1 Uniform Manual.  What does the first sentence in Chapter 4 say?  It says this:

4-1. General.  Cadet members are authorized to wear the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations as desired.

No mention of authorizing the polo shirts for cadet wear, thus because of the self-defined exclusionary nature of CAPM 39-1, cadets cannot.

[♠SARKID♠]

....and why would any cadet want to wear the golf shirt? 

Because not all of us want to be cadets.  I have to go with Pylon on this one though.

[CASH172]

I saw that first sentence on chapter 4.  But, what I find weird is how there's no mention of the Golf Shirt itself even within the Definition of Terms in 4-2.  And, the Aviator Shirt Uniform specifically spells out SMs only.  There's no mention of cadet or even senior within the Golf Shirt page. 

....and why would any cadet want to wear the golf shirt? 

Cause some cadets are just weird.  Usually this would be me, but in this case, not so.  Someone I know was asking about it. 

[FW]

The "golf shirt" is an alternative to the white aviator shirt meant for senior members.

Cadets may wear the golf shirt. It just isn't allowed as an authorized cadet uniform.   It can be worn however, when a cadet is "off duty".

Chapter 4-1 is very specific.  If it's not mentioned, it's not allowed.

There is one exception however, it may be worn by cadets during a glider encampment or during glider training  with shorts as a summer "flight uniform".

[mikeylikey]

There is one exception however, it may be worn by cadets during a glider encampment or during glider training with shorts as a summer "flight uniform".

When exceptions are made....the reg becomes obsolete in my mind.

Ridiculous not to allow the golf shirt to be worn by Cadets.  They are people too!

[FW]

^ I'm only making the observation; not making editorial comments on this one :angel:

[mikeylikey]

^ I'm only making the observation; not making editorial comments on this one :angel:

It's not just about the glider uniform.  Many exceptions are made left and right in CAP, even when the regs say "there will be no exceptions". 

I thought the glider uniform was a t-shirt and shorts anyway??

[Eclipse]

I thought the glider uniform was a t-shirt and shorts anyway??

Ditto - I've never seen a cadet wearing the dark blue CAP golf shirt - pretty expensive to be sweating up in a glider.

[FW]

T-shirt.... Golf shirt....  All the same to this " Old shirt"  
How a cadet spends their allowance is their business.

If only we lived in a perfect world, where it would only rain at night between 23:00  and  01:00 hrs Monday to Friday, where the temps would never deviate between 60 -80 degrees and all CAP members would wear uniforms correctly....

Ah yes, what a dream....

To be serious, many of the regs are outdated, obsolete and have no base in current reality.  You would think we could get some "volunteers" to get things in order.

[mikeylikey]

To be serious, many of the regs are outdated, obsolete and have no base in current reality.  You would think we could get some "volunteers" to get things in order.

We tried, and the uniform head honcho got replaced last minute, and the new guy scrubbed the idea of "regular" members forming a committee and getting the uniform situation worked out. 

[jimmydeanno]

You would think we could get some "volunteers" to get things in order.

Sometimes that is worse than having an obsolete reg...

[CASH172]

Ok, so I just wanted to see what the folks at NHQ said about the issue.  I asked on the Knowledgebase and this was the response:

Are cadets authorized to wear the CAP Distinctive Golf Shirt?...


Yes unless your unit or wing has some type of restriction on wear by cadets.

Please see knowledgebase answer(s) below for additional details.

Title: Wear of the Golf Shirt Uniform
URL: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1365&p_created=1091213887

Title: Appropriate civilian outerwear with CAP uniforms
URL: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1445&p_created=1098281833

[♠SARKID♠]

Short answer: No.  Cadets may not.

The polo shirts are CAP distinctive uniforms and fall under Chapter 4 of the CAPM 39-1 Uniform Manual.  What does the first sentence in Chapter 4 say?  It says this:

4-1. General.  Cadet members are authorized to wear the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations as desired.

No mention of authorizing the polo shirts for cadet wear, thus because of the self-defined exclusionary nature of CAPM 39-1, cadets cannot.

After reading thrugh 39-1 I have to change my opinion, Pylon.  This is what it says about its "exclusionary nature".

Any variation from this publication is not authorized.  Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

It only excludes items not listed; it has no bearing on interpretation of regulations as to who can wear what.  39-1 also does not say whether or not the golf shirt is senior member exclusive so its not a variation from the publication.  On the pictured pages of the CAP distinctive section all uniforms are stated as being "Senior Members Only", "Cadets Only", or "Senior Members and Cadets" with the exception of the golf shirt  (page 76) which has no classification at all.  If you are going to say that cadets can't wear the golf shirt based on the information in the regulation, then there technically isn't enough information to say that senior members can wear it either (To think of that in a different terms - show me where the regulation says that senior members can wear the golf shirt!).  It does not define who can wear the combo.

Top that with a knowledgebase "OK", and I have to hop onto the other side of the fence for this one.

[mikeylikey]

^ I think I saw a pic of Cadets wearing the golf shirt while in DC for that Civic Leadership Academy.

I have no problem with Cadets wearing the shirt.  When 39-1 gets written, this should be made more clear I suppose!! 

Oh and if anyone can remember this far back.....the shirts were prizes for both Cadets and Seniors in the Recruiting 2000 campaign/ contest

[ßτε]

show me where the regulation says that senior members can wear the golf shirt!

Here:

4-1. General. Cadet members are authorized to wear the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations as desired. All senior members, including those who do not meet the standards of wear for an Air Force style uniform for reasons of grooming or weight standards, may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniform combinations described in this chapter.

[♠SARKID♠]

show me where the regulation says that senior members can wear the golf shirt!

Here:

4-1. General. Cadet members are authorized to wear the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations as desired. All senior members, including those who do not meet the standards of wear for an Air Force style uniform for reasons of grooming or weight standards, may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniform combinations described in this chapter.

Okay, fair enough but my point still stands.  It doesn't deny that cadets can wear the golf shirt.

[ßτε]

So then, why does it list specific uniforms cadets can wear (which doesn't include the Golf shirt combination) but states that senior members can wear any of the combinations? The context is clear that out of all the CAP distinctive uniforms, only the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations are authorized for cadets, despite what the Knowledge Base indicates.

[arajca]

show me where the regulation says that senior members can wear the golf shirt!

Here:

4-1. General. Cadet members are authorized to wear the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations as desired. All senior members, including those who do not meet the standards of wear for an Air Force style uniform for reasons of grooming or weight standards, may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniform combinations described in this chapter.

Okay, fair enough but my point still stands.  It doesn't deny that cadets can wear the golf shirt.

Actually, it does. Is the golf shirt the same, not equivelent to, the CAP utility uniform (blue poly/cotton flightsuit style coveralls)? The field uniform, aka bbdu? or the blazer uniform (or any of it's combinations)? If not, cadets cannot wear it. The first part of the paragraph specifies which CAP distinctive uniforms cadets can wear.