Cadets attitudes

[flyguy06]

I have been reading some of the posts on theis boardparticularly in the ES section. Ans this is the reason I feel the way I do about cunits focusing too much on ES. I read comments from cadets and they really think they are some ES God or something. They think they are the hardest thing since woodpecker lips. This kind of attitude is dangerous and non productive.

One young man called me liberal ( I guess that was supposed to be an insult) and said I dont get my hands dirty. I dont argue with cadets. I am 36 years old, a "real" Army Officer and a "real" U.S. Army Ranger. I think I have gotten my hands plenty dirty and since he doesnt know wher I currently am, I excuse him.

But thats just a drop in the bucket. I see these attitudes among many young impressionable youths. It breeds elitism and content and disrepect of people. Our mision is to save lives and do good positive services for our community. Not to feel superiror to others just because we can camp out inthe woods or perform first aid.

[whatevah]

I need to add an "applause" smiley face.

good post!

[Matt]

Fly, I concur.  I just got back from a, not SAREX, but a Group Cadet ES Training weekend, and just read the Cadets Involvement in ES this morning at work.  I'll admit that I am cocky sometimes, but I, as a cadet was offended that cadets were speaking that way of ES.  Pardon the expression, but that's a kick in the balls.

As the saying goes, (These things I do) ... That Others May Live.  We aren't here to babysit or be babysat, we're here for a job, be it by a cadet or by a SM, as long as the job is accomplished and everyone comes home alive - the more power to them.  As for the egos -- they need to be lost, I don't feel that the cadets have been trained properly to the fact that their (mess) does stink.  I worked for 2 years to be a GTL, but beneath that, I AM at GTM, and I still listen to SMs even if I am in charge.  There is a time and place for egos (short time and small place), missions are not a place for them.

To keep this brief and with hold the argument from others, I must say, the same as whatevah - good post!

*Applauds*

[CAPRANGER]

I agree as well.  There is NO place for "cocky" cadets or SM's.  If we are on a GT, we all have been through some sort of training, whether that be local, wing level, regional, or national.  ES can be and is a touchy subject for most folks, especially those who are extremely passionate about it.  I fully apologize if anyhting I said, or my CC said that was disrespectful, in an unbecoming way of a Civil Air Patrol Cadet Officer.  In these times and troubles, we all need to work together towards a common goal.  If that be ES, that means working together as  a team, Cadet and SM alike, to achieve our objective.  There is room to be proud of yourself and your accomplishments, and a little cocky, but to let things deface the way CAP is intended to be is uncalled for, and I'm overly apologetic at this time.  I thank you all for your kind words and such, and wish you all success on all endeavors you may undertake, most importantly ES OPS.

[Nathan]

Just to play devil's advocate, it doesn't really require a whole lot CAP-wise to actually be an ES god...

I mean, sure, when you want to talk about rucking it in the woods, an Army Ranger will kick the popo of the CAP cadet. Hell, a Boy Scout can beat most CAP guys when it comes to camping. However, in terms of SAR, there is very rarely a situation that is even located off an airport, and when they are, they don't usually require anything more than a line search and the basic procedure. Nothing special.

I'm no fan of elitists (as most of you know), but to give some credit, it also isn't fair to say that cadets are rarely qualified to perform the ES required in CAP. As far as ES goes, half of the cadets in my squadron are ready to go. You don't have to know how to parachute out of a helocopter in order to perform SAR (Well, most of the time, anyway.)

[Pace]

To be really good at ES, all it really takes is lots of time, dedication, and a good attitude.  Some maturity and common sense is also a must if you want to lead or teach anyone SAR.  I think there is something to be said for a proficient, cohesive CAP ground team.  However, when people start thinking they are a one person ground team, that's typically when tempers rise and mistakes start.

[shorning]

I need to add an "applause" smiley face.

good post!

[dwb]

I just went back and read the thread in question.

Wow.  Just, wow.

I sometimes wonder where these attitudes come from.

Honestly, CAP Emergency Services is not, I repeat, not the most hardcore SAR training there ever was.  Even the stuff they do on Hawk Mountain, while commendable, doesn't warrant the level of elitism some people display.

Professional SAR teams, volunteer fire departments, and local and state emergency management organizations all provide SAR services, some with a much higher degree of professionalism and training than CAP.  Having a list of acronyms on your 101 in no way makes you the baddest of them all.

That said, CAP does have some differentiating capabilities.  We have aircraft that can move slowly, and are relatively cheap to fly.  We have a national radio infrastructure, and most individuals involved with ES are (should be?) at least comfortable talking on the radio.  Finally, we have the intangible benefit of wearing USAF uniforms, lending an air of authority which can be useful when in a crisis situation.  And of course, we do have a decent SAR/DR curriculum.

Where was I going with this?  Oh yeah, attitudes.

Something I've noticed is that attitude seems to correlate to experience, but not in the way you might think.  Here, I even hastily sketched a graph to illustrate my point.



When you start out at something, you usually have a good attitude.  You reach a point where you think you know everything there is to know (known in life as the "teenage years").  You have basic skills at this point, and you're probably pretty good at what you do.  But you're not the best there is, you just think you are.

Over time, as you learn more, you begin to see that, back when you thought you knew everything, you really didn't know squat.  Smart people realize this, and adopt a more appropriate attitude.

Really, really good people are generally very affable, and have almost no attitude.  Everyone knows they're good, and they don't need to exude attitude to prove it.  They're also humble enough to know they've made mistakes, and they don't know everything.  The so-called "quiet professional".

Unfortunately, a lot of people never get beyond basic comprehension and knowledge, and/or never grow beyond the attitude that corresponds with it.

You see this in ES, you see it in the working world (lots of meddling middle managers fall into this category), you see it everywhere.  Cadet NCOs and junior officers are the most prone to the too-much-tude-for-experience, because they're right in that level of experience.  They know enough to be dangerous, so to speak.

[shorning]

I just went back and read the thread in question.

Wow.  Just, wow.

I just read it as well.  "Wow" is an understatement.

But my issue is that some pieces just don't jive.  For example, how an individual can be a cadet, an ANG A1C, and a corporal in the 82d Abn.  There may be a good explanation, but on the surface, it just doesn't add up.  There is something fishy there...

I like a good story as much as the next guy...especially ES ones.  They can be quite good.  Since I decided to let my ES quals expire, I have to settle for living vicariously through others.  But there are times when they are obviously an exaggeration of the truth or flat out lie.  There are tippers that send up red flags.

I think it's silly to think you can do what ever you want on an internet forum.  It's not "your internet".  You have to abide by the rules the owners of the forum establish.  Additionally, if you're going to represent your self as a member of CAP, you have the responsibility to conduct yourself in a professional manner.  I'll tell you that if I saw my cadets posting some of those comments, we would have had a discussion at the next meeting.

[Mac]

I just read it as well.  "Wow" is an understatement.

But my issue is that some pieces just don't jive.  For example, how an individual can be a cadet, an ANG A1C, and a corporal in the 82d Abn.  There may be a good explanation, but on the surface, it just doesn't add up.  There is something fishy there...

Not just a cadet (C/Col to C/2Lt in about 2 days if I remember), ANG A1C, and Corporal in the 82d, but if you look closely you will notice that the name also changed. I would say that is an individual that is in need of some serious help.

[shorning]

I just read it as well.  "Wow" is an understatement.

But my issue is that some pieces just don't jive.  For example, how an individual can be a cadet, an ANG A1C, and a corporal in the 82d Abn.  There may be a good explanation, but on the surface, it just doesn't add up.  There is something fishy there...

Not just a cadet (C/Col to C/2Lt in about 2 days if I remember), ANG A1C, and Corporal in the 82d, but if you look closely you will notice that the name also changed. I would say that is an individual that is in need of some serious help.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'd say there is a touch of an inferiority complex there.  Of course, it's more likely a case of a teenager wanting to be important.  I can understand that.  I just think that was the wrong approach to take.  One can pretend to be anyone they want, but I won't respect them any more.