SMVs Revoked?

[ColonelJack]

I am not at all sure if this is an appropriate topic, but ...

I understand from some sources that the Silver Medals of Valor awarded to Colonels Parker and Levitch and he who shall not be named have been revoked by NHQ.  True or false? 

Jack

[cnitas]

Why would they be revoked?

That would require that the story be false, and then I would imagine that all involved would be looking at a serious problem.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The source of the rumour is News of the Force.  Take it for what its worth.  Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.

[mikeylikey]

^ News of the Force (no matter how much we hate the author) only compiles information from different sources.  He never invented anything, and I think the guys credibility actually increased when he broke the whole TP thing and was 100 percent spot on. 

Don't be a hater. 

[isuhawkeye]

^^^ Wow

you have apparently never been on the bad side of CAP's muck rakers

[mikeylikey]

^^^ Wow

you have apparently never been on the bad side of Cap's muck rakers

It is called being conscious of your surroundings, and walking away from situations that may blow up in your face.  More people should try that. 

Plus, I only spread the crap around, I never start it.  I am a terd, but am trying to be a better terd.    

[CadetProgramGuy]

^^^ Wow

you have apparently never been on the bad side of Cap's muck rakers

It is called being conscious of your surroundings, and walking away from situations that may blow up in your face.  More people should try that. 

Plus, I only spread the crap around, I never start it.  I am a terd, but am trying to be a better terd.    

sometimes you are so embedded in a situation that you just cannot walk away.

[JohnKachenmeister]

^ News of the Force (no matter how much we hate the author) only compiles information from different sources.  He never invented anything, and I think the guys credibility actually increased when he broke the whole TP thing and was 100 percent spot on. 

Don't be a hater. 

I'm not a hater.

I said... "Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut."  That means that among the several sources that they use, once in a while they are able to find an actual fact.  The SMV issue may or may not be an actual fact.

I'm here in FL where all these guys are, and I have a direct hotline connection to Florida Rumour Control.  That line has not lit up yet.

[mikeylikey]

^ I didn't mean to direct my comments specifically at you Major.  Sorry, I was getting them out there before others jumped on the "its NOTF, so it can't be credible" slant.

[Larry Mangum]

Having been on the receiving end of the abuse that some of these so called sources of news and action heap on people, I take everything I read from NOTF or CAP Insights with a huge dose of skepticism. NOTF seems to be a little better, but I still remain doubtful.

[wingnut]

I repeat

of those whom names we may not speak

how can you go from a Captain to Colonel in 3 years??, will I respect the rank? NOOO, do we get respect from the Military for doing that? NOOOOO

Are we really 60% Bling and 40% Action?

[BillB]

Real easy to go from Captain to Colonel in 3 years. CLtCol Levitch hald Earhart when he turned Senior in the late 1970's. That got im his 1 Lt and he promoted to Captain after 2 years. Then he dropped from the program and came back in as a SM until he got the Captain grade back. Since he had time in grade for Major, there was no problem. When apointed Wing Commander he got to be Colonel skipping LtCol as a Corporate Officer as provided in the CAP Constitution and Bylaws.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I almost got SM to Col is 6 years......

Joined 2002, got special promotion to 1Lt for Instrument rating, did TIG to Capt (now) applied  for Wing King in 2008.  Coulda had Col......

[capchiro]

Two items, one, I would think that the revocation of the SMV would be of public record and that CAP National would not hide the fact if so inquired, two, I am disappointed if Levitch held the Earhart and didn't learn any better integrity, honor, and morals from his experience with the cadet program. 

[Maj Ballard]

My understanding was that Col Levitch got Major by virtue of being Group 11 commander at the time. I may be wrong though.

[mikeylikey]

Who is Colonel Levitch, I must have missed the scandal he was involved with. 

[CadetProgramGuy]

Very long story short, Levitch was one of the Original GOB Club, he and Not named got a Lifesavers Medal for directing traffic in a car crash.

Its on hayden's website.

[mikeylikey]

Its on hayden's website.

Linky please?  If not wanting to post in public....PM??

[James Shaw]

OK Folks, I have been sent emails by 3 seperate people who say they got my email address from CAPTalk and want my opinion on the whole SMV revoked issue. So I hope they see this response so they wont send me anymore.

I do have my private opinions about this whole situation and they are private. I do not feel that it is appropriate for me as a recipient of the SMV to comment on someone elses validity or truthfullness about their award whether they are active or former members of this great organization. I also feel that as a member of National Staff I should keep my feelings to myself.

[SJFedor]

OK Folks, I have been sent emails by 3 seperate people who say they got my email address from CAPTalk and want my opinion on the whole SMV revoked issue. So I hope they see this response so they wont send me anymore.

I do have my private opinions about this whole situation and they are private. I do not feel that it is appropriate for me as a recipient of the SMV to comment on someone elses validity or truthfullness about their award whether they are active or former members of this great organization. I also feel that as a member of National Staff I should keep my feelings to myself.

Haha. I'm sorry, that just kinda made me giggle how you were like "My opinion is....I don't wish to broadcast my opinion."

You're a good man.

[SarDragon]

Google "Ray Hayden", you'll get in the top 5 on the list.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Very long story short, Levitch was one of the Original GOB Club, he and Not named got a Lifesavers Medal for directing traffic in a car crash.

Its on hayden's website.

A lifesaving Medal would have been appropriate.  He got the Silver Medal of Valor, along with The Nameless One

[Eagle400]

I do have my private opinions about this whole situation and they are private. I do not feel that it is appropriate for me as a recipient of the SMV to comment on someone elses validity or truthfullness about their award whether they are active or former members of this great organization. I also feel that as a member of National Staff I should keep my feelings to myself.

Okay, and that's fine.  But I cannot let this discussion continue without posting the CAPF-120 containing the details of the actions of TP, Levitch and Parker in this matter. 



I'm curious as to how one person is able to hold up an entire van with four passengers inside.  One would think the van is too heavy to hold up even without passengers inside.  And it is thought provoking how the "witness" was able to get into a position to hold the van up and prevent it from rolling over once more, because when a van rolls there is too much momentum for it to be stopped by anything as fragile as a human body.        

If the van was leaning at an angle on uneven ground, it obviously wasn't on the highway.  And in the last sentence of the first paragraph, it even says that the "witness" saw it come to rest in the median.  Rescuing accident victims of a vehicle on the median is not as dangerous as rescuing accident victims of a vehicle on the highway; you are more likely to be struck by an oncoming vehicle if you are on the highway.  So that right there should have made these "heroic actions" more deserving of a Lifesaving Medal than either the Bronze or Silver Medal of Valor.

In 1999, there was an officer and cadet in CAWG who came across an accident site where the car came to rest on the actual highway.  Cars were wizzing past them left and right, but they left their vehicle and came to the aid of the victims knowing full well that they could easily be struck and killed at any time.  They managed to pull the victims from the damaged vehicle and bring them to safety amid the traffic.  What did they both get for their bravery?  The Bronze Medal of Valor.

Strange how three members aiding accident victims in the median of a highway get the Silver Medal of Valor, but two members aiding accident victims directly on the higway get the Bronze Medal of Valor.  So the people who were in less danger got a higher award than the people who were in greater danger.       

With regard to the rescue of said "victims", if a person was physically able to hold up a van with four passengers by himself, would he be able to continue holding up the van after Col Levitch (who is very heavy-set) crawled in the van to rescue the victims?  Remember, the justification statement doesn't say if or when the "witness" stopped holding the van up.

Levitch probably weighs at least 250 pounds.  So I highly doubt he was able to squeeze his large body into the side rear window of a van.  Furthermore, why would he pass the injured passengers through a small rear side window if he was not able to get into a small rear side window himself?  Logic would say that he would find the large window he used to get in, and use that as an exit point for the victims. 

And while it is probable that the "doctor" (who saw the accident while passing by) stopped to offer help, I doubt that a "National Guard Unit" (presumably a convoy) enroute to the scene of a major national disaster would stop for something like this.  And what about the "passenger" who was injured so badly that she could not be moved from the vehicle?  I would think that the "doctor" would have been able to remove the victim safely and treat her before the "National Guard Unit", "Highway Patrol officer", "fire trucks", "rescue vehicle" and "rescue unit" arrived.  The justification statement does say that the "doctor" was directed to the "fourth victim" trapped in the vehicle, but nowhere does it say what happened to this "fourth victim."  Also, the justification statement says "fire trucks", which is interesting because I've never seen more than one fire truck at the scene of any accident involving one vehicle.

If I was the one reviewing this CAPF-120, I would ask TP, Parker and Levitch to each provide me (on their own) the names of everyone involved.  If the names of those involved did not match, I would send the CAPF-120 and each seperate list of those names to the CAP/IG as proof of a fraudulent act committed by all three officers.  I would also contact the CAP National Legal Officer to subopena all records of the accident collected by the emergency responders, so there is proof from a credible third party that the accident never happened.            

[JayT]

  Also, the justification statement says "fire trucks", which is interesting because I've never seen more than one fire truck at the scene of any accident involving one vehicle.

        

I disagree. I've seen plenty of single car accident where more then one enginers or trucks roll up.

[isuhawkeye]

my district has a several mile stretch of I-80 where two departments simultaneously respond.  This often brings 2 chiefs, 2 engines, a light rescue, and as many as two ambulances.  All for one accident. 

once the first units arrive.  they either block traffic, or place the rest back in service

[mikeylikey]

Very long story short, Levitch was one of the Original GOB Club, he and Not named got a Lifesavers Medal for directing traffic in a car crash.

Its on hayden's website.

A lifesaving Medal would have been appropriate.  He got the Silver Medal of Valor, along with The Nameless One

Agreed!  But the Commander always gets the highest medal, ribbon or decoration that can be awarded without people calling "BS".  You were in the military, you know how that works.  I totally agree they should have gotten something less than they did, but they didn't. 

[Cecil DP]

I'm wondering why they were headed for JAX Airport, when all live in South Florida. If they were driving they would have been headed to I -75. that would have had them cutting diagonically across the state, rather than going east and than another 350 miles towards Miami.

[mikeylikey]

^ You win the prize today!  You figured out why there is such controversy around the awarding of the decorations.  Many things do not add up. 

[JoeTomasone]

Incidentally, the decision on how much fire apparatus to roll to a scene lies in the hands of the chief.    One of the departments back in NY customarily rolled everything with wheels to pretty much anything.   Small brush fire?   3 pumpers, a ladder, 2 ambulances, etc...  Never did find out why; I know my department would have sent a pumper and *maybe* kept one on standby in case it flared.

[Gunner C]

In the same light as the SMVs above, there ws a SMV awarded last summer to a NHQ officer who IIRC applied CPR and administered an IV on a commercial flight.  What the heck?  That was (at the most) a Cert of Lifesaving.  When I saw that one, I knew that the system was broke.

GC

[notaNCO forever]

 Thoughs that have power get the good awards.

[James Shaw]

In the same light as the SMVs above, there ws a SMV awarded last summer to a NHQ officer who IIRC applied CPR and administered an IV on a commercial flight.  What the heck?  That was (at the most) a Cert of Lifesaving.  When I saw that one, I knew that the system was broke.

GC

Actually it was the BMV to a female member. Yes she is NHQ staff. The writeup was only partially complete because the rest of the information could not  be released as per directed by the FAA.

Thoughs that have power get the good awards.

That is a large blanket statement to make and demeans those who work hard to achieve and complete their work to the best of their ability. You dont have to have power to achieve Level 1 or Level 5. It depends on the individual motivation to advance and complete the requirements. Give them and yourself more credit than that.

[SDF_Specialist]

Thoughs that have power get the good awards.

That is a large blanket statement to make and demeans those who work hard to achieve and complete their work to the best of their ability. You dont have to have power to achieve Level 1 or Level 5. It depends on the individual motivation to advance and complete the requirements. Give them and yourself more credit than that.

Well said Major. We can't look down on everyone just because of a little bad publicity because of a few members. We are over 50,000 members strong. Just because one or two screw up, doesn't mean the other 48 or 49,000 are horrible.

[jb512]

I hesitate to comment on such a touchy subject, and I'd never undermine another person's award when I was not present at the event, or for the approval.  Many people have to be involved in the process, so obviously someone saw something that merited it.

My concern is the inconsistency with these MV awards and the ease in which some are given.  To me, "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action, at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of normal duty" is where you die while saving someone's life, or come pretty d@#n close to it.  

Even for the BMV, "heroic action where danger to self is probable and known" to me means that you're running into a burning building and dragging the little old lady out with your clothes singed, or breaking up a fight at a biker bar and holding somebody down until the cops show up.  That's pretty much probable and known danger.

I can see where entering a crashed van to pull victims out would be hazardous without the proper safety equipment, but in most cases you're not supposed to do that.  Vehicles don't explode like in the movies and unless it's on fire, with the amount of trauma caused during a rollover, it's best to leave them where they're at until they can be stabilized and removed properly.  I guess it would depend on the extent of the leaking fuel that was mentioned.

Maybe it's just me... and none of us were there, so who knows.

[RiverAux]

The supposed circumstances of these awards were actually sort of typical of what we usually see them given out for. 

[M.S.]

I dont know if C.A.P. is necessarily alone on this type of debating though.  I've heard AF personnel complain about how some of their officers seem to have picked up bronze stars (without the V device) pretty easily while they were downrange... for things they thought were basically routine and not quite meeting the "heroic or meritorious achievement or service, ...while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States..." qualifications.

I guess its always "YMMV"! 

[SAR-EMT1]

Two things,

1) to reiterate what others have said: many depts will roll everything to anything.
Got a brush fire or 1 car MVA? - the nearest town will roll everything they've got.
Got a structure fire? Automatic MABIS activation (calls out the whole county)
Got a fight at a local bar? every cop on duty in the county will respond along with all the ambulances

2 ) Even though I have crawled into busted cars and got soaked in gas (and blood) off duty or gone into a burning house without bunker gear to make sure everyone is out; I would feel kind of dirty about submitting any paperwork for a medal,  because I work full time in public safety.
Maybe if one day I do end up almost killing myself, then I might submit papers, but that hasnt happened yet.

Dont get me wrong, I love recognition, but not for an action that by this point in my life might as well be DNA instinctive.

Knowing that Pineda is/was a cop I see no reason whatsoever why he deserved anything more then a pat on the back for assuming control over that incident.

I say that as one pro refering to another, because it should be expected behavior of any Public Safety type ESPECIALLY a LawDog.

YMMV

[ColonelJack]

I can see where entering a crashed van to pull victims out would be hazardous without the proper safety equipment, but in most cases you're not supposed to do that.  Vehicles don't explode like in the movies and unless it's on fire, with the amount of trauma caused during a rollover, it's best to leave them where they're at until they can be stabilized and removed properly.  I guess it would depend on the extent of the leaking fuel that was mentioned.

While I fully agree with you regarding the issuance of the Medal of Valor, the main reason I posted the initial question regarding these particular SMVs centers around the widely-held belief that the accident in question never actually happened.  While NOTF and Mr. Hayden are reviled (and in many cases rightly so), I haven't found any examples of their being just plain wrong about something -- in fact, their accuracy rate is rather high.  Both "sources" say the incident for which the three received the SMV did not happen.  And the rumor mill is now relating that NHQ has revoked the SMVs issued. 

Whether or not the incident as reported rates a Medal of Valor, a Lifesaving Ribbon, or just a pat on the back and an "attaboy!" isn't the issue.  The issue (as far as I see it) is one of stolen valor; awarding CAP's highest decoration for something that may not have ever taken place.

Jack

[Gunner C]

^^Amen, Brother!

GC

[O-Rex]

One would think that there is a system of checks & balances in place to prevent such a thing. . . . .

[jimmydeanno]

Isn't this kind of an easy debate to solve.  Just pull up the police report for the day and see if "mini-van roll over" is on there.

[James Shaw]

I dont know if C.A.P. is necessarily alone on this type of debating though.  I've heard AF personnel complain about how some of their officers seem to have picked up bronze stars (without the V device) pretty easily while they were downrange... for things they thought were basically routine and not quite meeting the "heroic or meritorious achievement or service, ...while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States..." qualifications.

I guess its always "YMMV"! 

I am sure that there are examples of this in every branch of the service and any public service group. I think that alot of these award decisions are based on the subjective opinions of the people currently serving on the "awarding committee". I think this holds true for any award such as the Commanders Commendation up to the SMV. The personal opinions and the feelings of the people who are making the decision may be influenced by their feelings at the time. We see it all the time and may even perpetuate the problem ourselves by submitting an award for a higher one to try and make sure that even if they lower it to the next level the person still gets recognized.

I know of a 30+ member who is a Lieutenant Colonel that turns down most of the awards that are passed in front of him and his position if he has not been awarded the same allready. This was tracked and brought to the appropriate attention and the person was removed from that job because he was not being fair and impartial. He is no longer with us actively.

My philosophy is simple "If they earn it make sure they get it".

I know of one individual who has earned 4 Distinguished Service Medals and has never been a Wing Commander and they disurve everyone of them as far as I can tell.

I am also Very Sure that any of these high level awards will be far more scrutinized that they have in the past. They may even change the validation requirements for these things.

[ColonelJack]

I am sure that there are examples of this in every branch of the service and any public service group. I think that alot of these award decisions are based on the subjective opinions of the people currently serving on the "awarding committee". I think this holds true for any award such as the Commanders Commendation up to the SMV. The personal opinions and the feelings of the people who are making the decision may be influenced by their feelings at the time. We see it all the time and may even perpetuate the problem ourselves by submitting an award for a higher one to try and make sure that even if they lower it to the next level the person still gets recognized.

I know for a fact that this happens.  Back in '82 I was put up for a Meritorious Service Award for my work at the GAWG encampment at Ft. Benning.  The writeup was pretty awesome (I wish I had been the officer they wrote about!!) but higher up, the award was kicked down to a Commander's Commendation.  I felt that more appropriate, myself ... didn't even know I'd been put up for a MSA until I got the paperwork back.

I know of a 30+ member who is a Lieutenant Colonel that turns down most of the awards that are passed in front of him and his position if he has not been awarded the same allready. This was tracked and brought to the appropriate attention and the person was removed from that job because he was not being fair and impartial. He is no longer with us actively.

That's inexcusable.  Just because he didn't have it, nobody could have it?  We're better off without that kind of attitude.

My philosophy is simple "If they earn it make sure they get it".

Amen, brother!

I know of one individual who has earned 4 Distinguished Service Medals and has never been a Wing Commander and they disurve everyone of them as far as I can tell.

And, if you ask me (which you didn't), some of the Wing Kings I've seen and known didn't deserve the DSM they got just for holding down the post.  It should be very difficult to earn a DSM, not just serving as a Wing King.

I am also Very Sure that any of these high level awards will be far more scrutinized that they have in the past. They may even change the validation requirements for these things.

Let us hope.

Jack

[notaNCO forever]

 CAP needs vary well defined regs for giving out awards and should make sure awards that are given are deserved. This way you know if someone gets an award they did earn it.

[James Shaw]

CAP needs vary well defined regs for giving out awards and should make sure awards that are given are deserved. This way you know if someone gets an award they did earn it.

I feel that we do have a good system setup. The problem that we have is that the bad gets alot more attention than any of the good. People do not seem to get as much satisfaction from hearing about good as they do the bad. There are alot of people who are quick to point out what is wrong and fewer to stand up and say what is happening that is good. The thing about this CAPTalk website is the vast majority discuss and talk about how things are both good and bad. They dont sit and brood to much about how everything is wrong and nothing ever is right. Nothing is ever perfect but overall it is a great organization to be associated with (even with the occasional bad egg). I think that being in CAP is great and I am honored to be a part of it and I love being a Historian!!

[Duke Dillio]

It may be a good system but I think there should be some judicious expedition going on there Jim.  How long did it take for you to get your SMV versus how long it took TP?

The thing with awards though is that there will always be abuse at some point.  There are some in this organization and many others who look for any reason to get the next piece of bling.  They want that South American general look.  If we didn't have regs against it, I'm sure that someone would pop out with ribbons and badges going up one side above the pocket and halfway down their back with more blingage on the right side as well.

My dad always said the same thing about awards.  "It doesn't matter what award they give you.  It's the action that earned it that makes you a true hero."

[jb512]

I can see where entering a crashed van to pull victims out would be hazardous without the proper safety equipment, but in most cases you're not supposed to do that.  Vehicles don't explode like in the movies and unless it's on fire, with the amount of trauma caused during a rollover, it's best to leave them where they're at until they can be stabilized and removed properly.  I guess it would depend on the extent of the leaking fuel that was mentioned.

While I fully agree with you regarding the issuance of the Medal of Valor, the main reason I posted the initial question regarding these particular SMVs centers around the widely-held belief that the accident in question never actually happened.  While NOTF and Mr. Hayden are reviled (and in many cases rightly so), I haven't found any examples of their being just plain wrong about something -- in fact, their accuracy rate is rather high.  Both "sources" say the incident for which the three received the SMV did not happen.  And the rumor mill is now relating that NHQ has revoked the SMVs issued. 

Whether or not the incident as reported rates a Medal of Valor, a Lifesaving Ribbon, or just a pat on the back and an "attaboy!" isn't the issue.  The issue (as far as I see it) is one of stolen valor; awarding CAP's highest decoration for something that may not have ever taken place.

Jack

Well then that's just something way over our heads here on a discussion board.  If the event never happened and they falsified it, then there should be someone available over there to investigate it and fix it.  If it did happen, then they're apparently happy.

I'm sure there's an IG in the area that could solve the mystery fairly easily if need be.

[Tim Medeiros]

I'm wondering why they were headed for JAX Airport, when all live in South Florida. If they were driving they would have been headed to I -75. that would have had them cutting diagonically across the state, rather than going east and than another 350 miles towards Miami.

Your not taking into account that going down I-75 you encounter a toll road just after Naples.  Its amazing how "cheap" people can be, especially when they don't factor in the extra gas.

[AlphaSigOU]

I'm wondering why they were headed for JAX Airport, when all live in South Florida. If they were driving they would have been headed to I -75. that would have had them cutting diagonically across the state, rather than going east and than another 350 miles towards Miami.

Your not taking into account that going down I-75 you encounter a toll road just after Naples.  Its amazing how "cheap" people can be, especially when they don't factor in the extra gas.

Yep... ya gotta choice of getting fleeced on the Florida Turnpike or Alligator Alley.

Back when I was living in Oklahoma, they had the perfect word defined for those who avoided taking the turnpikes - and in Oklahoma practically every major highway and interstate is tolled - "shunpikers".

[Eagle400]

CAP needs vary well defined regs for giving out awards and should make sure awards that are given are deserved. This way you know if someone gets an award they did earn it.

I agree with you.

However, I absolutely believe that such regs are purposely vague so that people like Pineda, Parker and Levitch can get away with receiving awards for "valorous" actions in a situation that did not even happen. 

[Eagle400]

One would think that there is a system of checks & balances in place to prevent such a thing. . . . .

Yes, but believing that this system of checks & balances is effective requires the willful suspension of disbelief.

[SSgt Rudin]

There is an easy way to find out if it ever really happened, and maybe even get a copy of the police report... http://www.coj.net/Departments/Sheriffs+Office/Press+Room/default.htm

[lordmonar]

Pineda and friends aside.....what level of proof do we need...and who has the burden of said proof?

Even in the USAF no one really questions if someone has done what is put into an award package.

It is assumed that the award is being submitted by someone with first hand knowledge of the even.  Which leads to the military axiom that it is not always what you do....but who SEES you doing it!

I do beleive that CAP needs to have better guidance on what is really needed for what level of award.   The reg guidance is fairly clear but I have heard of a lot of people adding or interpeting to these requirments in an inconsitant manner.

[Maj Ballard]

There is an easy way to find out if it ever really happened, and maybe even get a copy of the police report... http://www.coj.net/Departments/Sheriffs+Office/Press+Room/default.htm

Why would the City of Jacksonville have the report? It happened somewhere between Tallahassee and Jacksonville on I-10. That's a big stretch of road.

[AlphaSigOU]

There is an easy way to find out if it ever really happened, and maybe even get a copy of the police report... http://www.coj.net/Departments/Sheriffs+Office/Press+Room/default.htm

Why would the City of Jacksonville have the report? It happened somewhere between Tallahassee and Jacksonville on I-10. That's a big stretch of road.

If it happened within Duval County, it's also the City of Jacksonville, except for a few small towns that did not consolidate. But you're right... that IS a long stretch of road between TLH and JAX.

[ColonelJack]

There is an easy way to find out if it ever really happened, and maybe even get a copy of the police report... http://www.coj.net/Departments/Sheriffs+Office/Press+Room/default.htm

Unfortunately, their archives go back only to October 2006.  The accident took place 5 Sep 2005 (if it happened at all).

Jack

[Maj Ballard]

My understanding was that it supposedly happened near Tallahassee... nowhere near Jax. It would more likely be an FHP report.

[mikeylikey]

It is assumed that the award is being submitted by someone with first hand knowledge of the even.  Which leads to the military axiom that it is not always what you do....but who SEES you doing it!

Plus a Commissioned Officer signs it and sends it, attesting to what is written.  If it later comes out that what was written did not happen, that Officer would face at a minimum an Article 32, and possibly dismissal from the Service.  Trust me when I say, all awards are verified somewhere in the chain.  Usually an Officer (Company Grade) is assigned that extra duty in the unit.  I can only speak for the way the Army works, but I am sure the AF works very similar. 

In CAP there are no repercussions for sending a fraudulent award up. 

[Hawk200]

In CAP there are no repercussions for sending a fraudulent award up. 

There are repercussions, but they're not of a punitive nature. We don't send anyone to Leavenworth, or give them an Article 15.

I don't know how CAP would handle such an issue. Pineda's termination was not directly resulting from this SMV issue, but it may very well have had something to do with it. We probably will never know.

[ColonelJack]

I don't know how CAP would handle such an issue. Pineda's termination was not directly resulting from this SMV issue, but it may very well have had something to do with it. We probably will never know.

Most likely not, since the other two involved are (as of last report) still members of CAP and retain their grade.

Jack

[BillB]

I notice that in photos of Levitch since the "incident" he does not wear the SMV.